Amanda Berry, Gina deJesus & Michelle Knight FOUND! #3

[Beyond Belief]

A lot of professionals are going to be needed for the girls to recovery from this ordeal. Family love and support is wonderful but they all need more than that. imo

 

[menmo]

I'm still wondering why AC's daughter said in that GMA interview that there wasn't any violence in the household when her mother was physically abused.. IDK why she would lie about that.

Great minds, I was just going to post that. She said there was no abuse in her home. Her brother said there was lots of abuse. He stated his father beat his mom after she had brain surgery, that's why she eventually left him. How in the world does this gal say there was no abuse??? Especially since we know Castro abused all the three women he had in captivity??

Perception is everything. Two children can come out of the same home environment and have totally different memories of how things were and what really went on. I've seen more than once where one child decides to be the awful parents defender. Even though deep down he surely knew/knows the truth he idolizes that other parent or feels they need protected and that parent is held up high on a pedestal while the one that was the victim is blamed. Is it because that other parent, the abusive one, was and is so vocal to the child that the child starts to feel it's their fight? I think so but I'm no psychologist. Would truly love to know the answer to this though.

Has anyone entertained the possability this could be that she is currently pregnant ?????

This has been going through my mind, too.

MOO

 

[ineedcoffee]

Does anyone else find it curious that Ariel ended all of Michelle's pregnancies, yet he made her deliver Amanda's baby and threatened to kill Michelle if the baby died?

Why did he want that baby more than the others?

http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2013/05/08/report-knight-delivered-berrys-baby/

 

[mysteriew]

From the yahoo article, it seems Michelle is still in the hospital, whereas the other two are home. I wonder if her medical needs are more severe than the other two?

The hospital would not have been able to keep her if she didn't have a medical/mental reason. When she was admitted that first day, they might have been able to make the case to hold her an extra day. But they wouldn't have been able to take her back just because she didn't have anywhere else to go.

I think the lack of a stable place to go might hinder her ability to recover, but the hospital wouldn't have kept her or readmitted her for that reason.

Her going back to the hospital indicates that there is something wrong. Whether it is physical or mental/emotional I don't know, but it is something.

Remember we have heard more about her physical injuries. What is it that they called it? Deforming injuries in her face? Also malnutrition and a history of forced miscarriages. So she wasn't in the best physical shape and with the malnutrition it would be hard for her to heal. There is a strong possibility that she has unhealed or poorly healed physical injuries.

There is also a lot of stress for her right now. Unaccustomed freedom, a lack of stability, strangers trying to see her, people with lots of questions about painful things, and the question of her future. And yes, seeing her fellow captives return to loving homes. So it wouldn't be surprising if she had some emotional/mental issues right now either.

 

[Betty P]

The state's NE Ohio crime lab is rushing to process Castro's DNA. It should be ready and entered into the CODIS database tonight with any results available in the morning. Because Ariel Castro had never been convicted of a crime, his DNA wasn't in the database, until now.

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/inde...me_lab_rushing_to_tes.html#incart_maj-story-2

It will be interesting to see if he's implicated in any other crimes.

 

[Abby Normal Again]

I've been trying for 2 days now to figure out how to ask this delicately. I'm still not sure if this is delicate enough but I'll give it my best try. This is strictly a legal question about the laws as they are today. I don't want to spark a political or moral debate. Here goes... abortion is legal in Ohio, correct? So how does that work legally speaking? I know after a certain gestational age things change, and I believe it has something to do with the fetus' ability to live on its own outside of the womb but I don't know a lot about it. If abortion's legal depending on the # of weeks pregnant/fetus viability, how does that impact what he could be charged with? If he caused the miscarriages early on (say before 20 or 24 weeks, or whatever the 'cutoff' is), can he be charged with anything other than the abuse to Michelle?

My quick Google search showed some differences between induced abortion vs. spontaneous abortion (aka miscarriage). It got me wondering legally speaking where it would fall if it's a spontaneous abortion caused by physical abuse. Obviously there's the abuse against the woman, but is there a crime (again strictly legally speaking) against the fetus? Is it different depending on whether or not the pregnant woman wanted to have the child?

I know it's not directly related to this case but I was also thinking about women trying to cause their own miscarriages. If a woman say starves herself by choice in hopes of causing a miscarriage and it works, is that a crime? What could she potentially be charged with? Would it differ from what someone else could be charged with if they forced her to starve and it led to a miscarriage?

I hope I'm making sense and don't offend anyone.

Basically, a woman has the authority over her body to choose not to use her body to sustain the life of her fetus. Nobody else has that authority over her body.

Not touching an abortion debate either... just saying why they can have a legal distinction.

 

[Abby Normal Again]

I'm not sure that her being held back was part of the typical "special education" school system, because generally speaking we do as you describe. I don't know all the details behind her situation, but I heard on CNN earlier today that she was still learning to read when she disappeared.

Also saw on CNN's news ticker on the bottom of the screen earlier that a reporter who spoke with Gina said she's doing great, but she can no longer speak Spanish. I wonder if that's normal? I've never been bilingual so don't know how quickly/easily someone would forget..

My first language is one of my weakest. My family began speaking more and more English after my grandmother died, and I've slowly lost it over the years only using it at bigger family gatherings. I bet if she is around Spanish a lot, it will start coming back to her. It's also possible she understands Spanish and replies in English simply because she has gotten more comfortable with English.

 

[BJsleuth]

Perception is everything. Two children can come out of the same home environment and have totally different memories of how things were and what really went on. I've seen more than once where one child decides to be the awful parents defender. Even though deep down he surely knew/knows the truth he idolizes that other parent or feels they need protected and that parent is held up high on a pedestal while the one that was the victim is blamed. Is it because that other parent, the abusive one, was and is so vocal to the child that the child starts to feel it's their fight? I think so but I'm no psychologist. Would truly love to know the answer to this though.


This has been going through my mind, too.

MOO

Children do what they need to survive, adaptive behaviours, even if that means aligning themself with an awful parent. Maybe this girl didn't witness it at all, protected by older siblings. Alternatively, mentally, unable to deal with the truth and emotions and psychological trauma that follows, she's locked it away somewhere. Not lying to cover anything for anyone or to hurt anyone but for her own survival. There's stigma attached to coming from a violent home, the shame keeps people silent, the fear. It's a complex process and when experience by children, it stunts them and they may continue those behaviours even when their survival is no longer dependant on it.

 

[katydid23]

From the yahoo article, it seems Michelle is still in the hospital, whereas the other two are home. I wonder if her medical needs are more severe than the other two?

I can think of several reasons she is still in a fragile state. Reportedly, he punched and kicked her repeatedly to induce five separate miscarriages. So her internal organs have got to be in rough shape. And she apparently lost some or all of her hearing from a beating she received on her face and head, which also
deformed her bone structure and facial features. So I bet she will need some surgery and long term treatment for just those incidents, let alone the emotional devastation.

 

[KALI]

I am not a lawyer. However, from what I've read so far, this is worse then Jaycee Dugar's situation, and she won Millions for Law Enforcement and Children's Protective Service's ineptness.
IMO. When attorney hooks up with these families, there will be lawsuits flying ALL over the place.
For me, I can't say that I blame them.
The policies and procedures for all law enforcement during the years that these girls were abducted need to be reviewed.
When it gets down to it, it might not be law enforcements fault. They could very well have been hampered by idiotic legislation.
Either way, Cleveland, Ohio is going to pay. Big time.
With that said. I Hope they get the help they need from real people who are not looking to make money off of their suffering.
Maybe, Jacee Dugaard can meet with them?

Two men reporetdly saw Gina get kidnapped by AC. They called the police and even gave the vehicle license plate. This was on Anderson Cooper right now. If this is true then there is NO excuse!

 

[mysteriew]

Does anyone else find it curious that Ariel ended all of Michelle's pregnancies, yet he made her deliver Amanda's baby and threatened to kill Michelle if the baby died?

Why did he want that baby more than the others?

http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2013/05/08/report-knight-delivered-berrys-baby/

That's a big question. And one I haven't been able to think of an answer to.

I can think of why he might allow them to have a child. A child, threats against a child, would be another thing he could hang over the women's heads. But if that was the reason he allowed Amanda to have a child, why not Michelle?

He made her miscarry, so it wasn't due to the sex of the child. They wouldn't have known that until she miscarried.

Maybe it was timing? Did something happen in the year that AB got pregnant? Rejection by his kids maybe? Didn't his ex-wife die about that time? Death of his father? A need to show his virility, that he could still have a child at that age? I really don't know.

 

[Abby Normal Again]

The hospital would not have been able to keep her if she didn't have a medical/mental reason. When she was admitted that first day, they might have been able to make the case to hold her an extra day. But they wouldn't have been able to take her back just because she didn't have anywhere else to go.

I think the lack of a stable place to go might hinder her ability to recover, but the hospital wouldn't have kept her or readmitted her for that reason.

Her going back to the hospital indicates that there is something wrong. Whether it is physical or mental/emotional I don't know, but it is something.

Remember we have heard more about her physical injuries. What is it that they called it? Deforming injuries in her face? Also malnutrition and a history of forced miscarriages. So she wasn't in the best physical shape and with the malnutrition it would be hard for her to heal. There is a strong possibility that she has unhealed or poorly healed physical injuries.

There is also a lot of stress for her right now. Unaccustomed freedom, a lack of stability, strangers trying to see her, people with lots of questions about painful things, and the question of her future. And yes, seeing her fellow captives return to loving homes. So it wouldn't be surprising if she had some emotional/mental issues right now either.

That is true if they are reporting to insurance, everything has to be medically necessary within strict definitions of it. But when you are paying cash (or have a donor promising to pay cash, or have a body of board members deciding to write it off) then those time constraints are no longer accurate. Think of celebrities and how they can stay in their birthing suites for way longer than most of us- because they have cash to pay for it.

Kind of irrelevant, because I think they probably can make a medical case for keeping her.

Just noting that those are insurance boundaries, and MK likely has no insurance. I would not be surprised if the hospital has decided to donate their services to these three women. I think they've pretty much captured everyone's hearts.

 

[Confusion]

Children do what they need to survive, adaptive behaviours, even if that means aligning themself with an awful parent. Maybe this girl didn't witness it at all, protected by older siblings. Alternatively, mentally, unable to deal with the truth and emotions and psychological trauma that follows, she's locked it away somewhere. Not lying to cover anything for anyone or to hurt anyone but for her own survival. There's stigma attached to coming from a violent home, the shame keeps people silent, the fear. It's a complex process and when experience by children, it stunts them and they may continue those behaviours even when their survival is no longer dependant on it.

I definitely don't assume she's lying. I mentioned once when I was in my 30's that I couldn't remember ever seeing my father lose his temper, which is true. My grandmother (his mother) was shocked because she said I saw him beat my mother regularly when I was young. They divorced when I was between 4 and 5, and I don't really remember him at all until I was closer to 10. By that time he had moved on to beating his later wives (he had either 5 or 6 in all, with a few fiances in between.)

 

[jjenny]

Two men reporetdly saw Gina get kidnapped by AC. They called the police and even gave the vehicle license plate. This was on Anderson Cooper right now. If this is true then there is NO excuse!

I watched that interview but have not heard the man say that they gave police a license plate.

 

[jjenny]

I am not a lawyer. However, from what I've read so far, this is worse then Jaycee Dugar's situation, and she won Millions for Law Enforcement and Children's Protective Service's ineptness.
IMO. When attorney hooks up with these families, there will be lawsuits flying ALL over the place.
For me, I can't say that I blame them.
The policies and procedures for all law enforcement during the years that these girls were abducted need to be reviewed.
When it gets down to it, it might not be law enforcements fault. They could very well have been hampered by idiotic legislation.
Either way, Cleveland, Ohio is going to pay. Big time.
With that said. I Hope they get the help they need from real people who are not looking to make money off of their suffering.
Maybe, Jacee Dugaard can meet with them?

Jaycey's kidnapper was on parole. They were supposed to monitor him and they did a poor job. This guy was not on parole. There is no lawsuit here. You can't sue police for not solving a case. Or they would be sued day in and day out.

 

[Abby Normal Again]

I definitely don't assume she's lying. I mentioned once when I was in my 30's that I couldn't remember ever seeing my father lose his temper, which is true. My grandmother (his mother) was shocked because she said I saw him beat my mother regularly when I was young. They divorced when I was between 4 and 5, and I don't really remember him at all until I was closer to 10. By that time he had moved on to beating his later wives (he had either 5 or 6 in all, with a few fiances in between.)

Yes. Without going into details, my older brothers' account of our birth mother and my account of her are drastically different. I stopped living with her at age 5ish and they were all older. I simply don't remember the things they remember.

 

[gitana1]

Perception is everything. Two children can come out of the same home environment and have totally different memories of how things were and what really went on. I've seen more than once where one child decides to be the awful parents defender. Even though deep down he surely knew/knows the truth he idolizes that other parent or feels they need protected and that parent is held up high on a pedestal while the one that was the victim is blamed. Is it because that other parent, the abusive one, was and is so vocal to the child that the child starts to feel it's their fight? I think so but I'm no psychologist. Would truly love to know the answer to this though.


This has been going through my mind, too.

MOO

You know I watched that interview and I actually think she was talking about witnessing violence in castro's house - the house he held the girls in. Re watch it and see if you think the same. The question right before that was about whether she had seen anything strange in her dad's house or something like that and I think she misunderstood the question.

The interview did irk me a bit. I think it;s nice that she apologized for what her father did, even though it;s not her fault, she took familial responsibility and that is refreshing in light of the pathological denial we usually see.

However, when she said she wanted Gina to see her and meet her kids i thought that was a bit insensitive. Why would Gina want anything to do with anyone connected to her abductor, tormentor, rapist and torturer? And why would she want to meet the kids of her former playmate? So she can wonder about all she missed herself with boyfriends and sun and love and starting a young family, while instead she sat chained and raped every day for 9 years?

Does anyone else find it curious that Ariel ended all of Michelle's pregnancies, yet he made her deliver Amanda's baby and threatened to kill Michelle if the baby died?

Why did he want that baby more than the others?

http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2013/05/08/report-knight-delivered-berrys-baby/

I think he saw Michelle as less than worthy to carry his child. It appears he beat her the most. I have heard she might have already had some cognitive problems and perhaps he felt the other girls were more attractive and from better families, since their families kept looking. I don;t know. But poor, poor Michelle.

 

[jjenny]

I'm sure this has already been answered since I'm usually late to the show but since I've seen this question quite a few times I'd like to address it. I've seen several interviews with Angel Cordero and in one he spoke Spanish with a translator and in one he spoke English. Obviously English isn't his first language which is probably why he chose to have a translator in one interview, but he speaks English just fine. He answered every question the interviewer asked him and I had no problem understanding him.

Yes, and if anybody wants to see him speak English, I posted a link on Charles Ramsey's thread. Angel can speak English just fine. I am sure he could understand what Amanda said to him.

 

[SilkySifaka]

That's a big question. And one I haven't been able to think of an answer to.

I can think of why he might allow them to have a child. A child, threats against a child, would be another thing he could hang over the women's heads. But if that was the reason he allowed Amanda to have a child, why not Michelle?

He made her miscarry, so it wasn't due to the sex of the child. They wouldn't have known that until she miscarried.

Maybe it was timing? Did something happen in the year that AB got pregnant? Rejection by his kids maybe? Didn't his ex-wife die about that time? Death of his father? A need to show his virility, that he could still have a child at that age? I really don't know.

If Michelle's cousins statement is true that she had the body of an adult but the mind of a child, he could simply in his sick mind not want any "defective" baby

 

[AstroKitty]

I maintain that all 3 women had specific roles to him and his abusive desires. I can't figure out Gina's role but Amanda was the woman he chose to have his child, this tied her to him (in his head) forever. The child was the leverage. Michelle was his punching bag, someone he could emotionally abuse and see results. I am up in the air whether she had been pregnant or just led to believe she was. They were malnourished and under tremendous stress, it's highly likely her periods were absent and he taunted her - made her believe she was pregnant and then beat upon her saying he was killing the baby. Logically I don't see him purchasing pregnancy tests and no one has come forward and said they noticed him doing so. JMO