Amanda Knox Discussion-Friendly Thread

[SMK777]

the prank could have been set up so M would be frightened and move out. wonder if we gave the whole case to AI what the AI would come up with.

I'm still fascinated and Rafael is always just skirting in interviews..like he wants to say something but will not say it.
just the impression I get. There are still secrets and unexpressed thoughts about this case. mOO

I agree fully.

You should give AI a try

 

[fridaybaker]

Minazoe, just wanted to say: We think alike! Yes to everything you said…

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Maybe so. But there is a fine line between PR image help where the defendant may be being unfairly painted ("Foxy Knoxy" is an example I think of real media bias) and the waving away of legitimate evidence.

In the Brenda Wiley case she was very unfairly treated by certain media outlets and called a "demon child" and yet legitimate evidence still convicted her.

'Foxy Knoxy' was not invented by the media though.
It was name she had labelled herself on her social media channel, I think it was MySpace back in those days. She was also very sexually and physically confident in a way that not so many young women are and was experimenting with sexual relationships with various young men as well as drugs. All of those things do not make her a femme fatale or murderer, they simply mean she was a free agent and confident.

However, everything else about her is problematic - her behaviour at the time, her story, her odd arrogance, the evidence.

I think in this instance it could be speculated that sexual tensions and jealousies and poor relationships with the other young women, in line with her self-perception as 'Foxy Knoxy' might be factors. For that reason, I don't think it's so straightforward as to say the media hounded her and labeled her with a sexist slur.

JMO MOO

 

[FergusMcDuck]

Amanda could never explain when where and how anything occurred on that night...

She was at Raffaele's place all night. That was her explanation from the start and still is. And no evidence contradicts that. There was never any problem explaining.

it was a word salad festival with knives, bleach and mops..

There were no knives involved and no bleach. Amanda first returned to the cottage between 20 and 11 the morning after the murder to shower.

she took a mop and went across town with it..

She did that just before noon on the day after the murder, because the pipes had burst under Raffaele's sink and he had no mop - as was confirmed by multiple witnesses including Raffaele's maid and the rental contract.

she was there, she wasn't there..she was at the bar, her boss did it...

She never said she was at the bar. The police best the story that she was at the cottage with her boss because that was the story they had decided on as what actually happened. Amanda, after having been threatened, screamed at and hit, signed statements typed up by the police.

I mean come on ...even if my room mate was murdered in my apartment, I would be able to cohesively recall my evening..

She did. The police refused to believe her, despite having no evidence against her.

even if smoking pot or whatever..she changed her story with every passing interveiw.

This is untrue. The only time she changed the story was when the police coerced her into confirming the story they wanted her to tell.

even if she is on the spectrum or has some other issues..I never believed her. She put her family through utter hell, she falsely accused someone..she LIED and a man was totally smeared.

By the police. They were the ones who believed he was the culprit and beat the confession out of Amanda, they were the ones who dragged him out of his house and called him racist slurs, they were the ones who got a witness to falsely claim his bar was closed at the time of the murder, they were the ones who "misread" his phone records and claimed he had switched phones and lied about it, they were the ones who registered obviously false accusations against witnesses who attempted to give him an alibi, they were the ones who, after they finally released him, kept his bat closed despite knowing it wasn't a crime scene until he stopped accusing them of misconduct

Amanda didn't destroy Lumumba's life. The Perugia police did

she is a snake..all she had to do was tell the truth..so what was the problem?

She did. The police refused to believe her because they had decided on her guilt before they even processed the evidence.

Her reaction to the murders was bizarre and suspicious,

There was indeed some bigotry among the Perugia police, but truth is she didn't act very strange at all. A lot of it were police gossip leaked to media.

she fell under that umbrella of suspicion due to her own problems with telling her story and buttoning up her alibi.

She was suspected because the police couldn't believe a burglar would smash a second story window and scale the wall to enter. If they had waited a few more days they would have found that the forensics identified a burglar who was known to have smashed a second story window and scales the wall in one of his crimes.

when she said people didn't like her because she is pretty kind of irked me.

Did she? I never heard that.

I mean pretty shaming is real, but generally
pretty girls get more sympathy, care and concern than others.

for me Amanda was some part of this, I don't know if we will ever know the whole truth..

There is zero evidence Amanda or Raffaele were involved and it doesn't make sense that they would - they didn't know Rudy and had no contact with him, yet on the day he broke into the cottage and assaulted and killed Meredith (all of which is abundantly evidenced), Amanda and Raffaele came over to do what? Nothing that left any evidence.

.but maybe she wanted to move in with or have her boyfriend move in with her after the "tragedy" and care for her in her "trauma" and replace her room mate .

Then she could just move in with her boyfriend who had his own apartment with more space than Amanda's room in the cottage. She and Meredith had separate rooms, so her presence wouldn't affect anything.

She has pretty much made a career out of this murder case

Because after spending four years in prison for a crime she didn't commit, another four years with the threat of reconviction and slandered across papers and TV across Europe and America, what else could she do?

 

[FergusMcDuck]

'Foxy Knoxy' was not invented by the media though.
It was name she had labelled herself on her social media channel, I think it was MySpace back in those days.

It was from when she played soccer as a kid. It was the media that made it sexual.

She was also very sexually and physically confident in a way that not so many young women are and was experimenting with sexual relationships with various young men as well as drugs.

As did Meredith. As did the Italian women they lived with. As did Meredith's British friends. Amanda wasn't different from any of them.

All of those things do not make her a femme fatale or murderer, they simply mean she was a free agent and confident.

However, everything else about her is problematic - her behaviour at the time, her story, her odd arrogance, the evidence.

I think in this instance it could be speculated that sexual tensions and jealousies and poor relationships with the other young women, in line with her self-perception as 'Foxy Knoxy' might be factors.

I think it's sadly not all that unexpected that people always quickly assign jealousy and sexual tensions as motives in any crime involving more than one woman. Especially when as in this case there was zero evidence of sexual tension or jealousy.

For that reason, I don't think it's so straightforward as to say the media hounded her and labeled her with a sexist slur.

It was pretty much that, except the original pushers of the ****-shaming story were the police and the prosecution Mignini - a notoriously conservative and conspiracy-minded fanatic, who was facing charges of abuse of power at the time he coerced statements out of Amanda.

 

[SMK777]

I can't at this point in time address all the particulars, but the Massei court found both Knox and Sollecito guilty and the Nencini court upheld that verdict.

In the motivation reports there was convincing evidence listed. In addition: The delay in phoning police, the assertion that Meredith always locked her door, the call at 3 am Seattle time to Amanda's mother which seemed to serve as a record of her coming upon the scene innocently, and many more red flags pointed to some kind of involvement.

 

[FergusMcDuck]

I can't at this point in time address all the particulars, but the Massei court found both Knox and Sollecito guilty and the Nencini court upheld that verdict.

And they were both overturned. Massei had refused to let independent experts examine the DNA evidence, and when the appeal trial did so, it collapsed completely. Both Massei and Nencini were notorious for absolutely devastating errors. Massei had used the same cell tower to prove that a phone was in Raffaele's apartment one day and outside it on another. Nencini completely misunderstood the phone records, claiming Amanda hasn't let the phone ring for more than a few seconds whe.n calling Meredith when the records only began when the call or voicemail did - as evidenced by all other calls to Meredith's phone from her friends and family being the same length. Marasca-Bruno heavily criticized Nencini for his illogical reasoning

In the motivation reports there was convincing evidence listed. In addition: The delay in phoning police,

The burglary was discovered ca 12:30, the police were called at 12:51. Not much of a delay, especially when the time in between was spent trying to open Meredith's door and calling relatives - including Raffaele's carabinieri sister - for advice.

the assertion that Meredith always locked her door,

That's not what she said. She said Meredith sometimes locked her door - specifying the conditions (when dressing after a shower, among others). Filomena disagreed but a. How would Filomena know that better than Amanda? And b. Filomena at that point wanted the door kicked down without delay. I doubt she was concerned with being meticulously correct at that point.

the call at 3 am Seattle time to Amanda's mother which seemed to serve as a record of her coming upon the scene innocently, and many more red flags pointed to some kind of involvement.

That call was made at 12:47, just a few minutes before the 112 call. How would that serve as a record when she had already notified Filomena of the break in fifteen minutes earlier and was more than an hour away from her first return to the cottage?

 

[minazoe]

I watched Amanda's program and I was unimpressed and unmoved. She struck me as a narcissistic person without empathy for the victim who she describes as a friend. Personally I don't think that's true. I also found her email to friends after the murder, really kind of odd..I always forget there were other room mates which kind of screws up the getting rid of the roommate theory. there is something very odd about all the detail she writes, before she even knows she is being charged...it covers a lot of things, all her movements that day..who touched what, who did what..she sent it to her group of friends back home.

so strange to me..I mean let's say it happens to me...ok maybe I would say you guys yeah it's really crazy but my room mate got murdered in our flat while I was at my boyfriends house..Crazy..lot's going on, I am safe, don't worry etc..such a great girl, devastated ...

but no, it's a blow by blow...a recanting, a sealing of her version..never does she express trauma or grief..
it's very strange, I wonder what others think of it? mOO

 

[SMK777]

also found her email to friends after the murder, really kind of odd..I always forget there were other room mates which kind of screws up the getting rid of the roommate theory. there is something very odd about all the detail she writes, before she even knows she is being charged...it covers a lot of things, all her movements that day..who touched what, who did what..she sent it to her group of friends back home.

so strange to me..I mean let's say it happens to me...ok maybe I would say you guys yeah it's really crazy but my room mate got murdered in our flat while I was at my boyfriends house..Crazy..lot's going on, I am safe, don't worry etc..such a great girl, devastated ...

but no, it's a blow by blow...a recanting, a sealing of her version..never does she express trauma or grief..
it's very strange, I wonder what others think of it? mOO

BBM
I and many others found the email to be an attempt at a narrative that would dispel suspicion; as if Amanda were trying to set a record straight and commit it to memory.

While as you note above, an innocent person would not show such mendacity by giving such extraneous detail. They would likely say :

A sad and shocking day here: My flatmate was murdered, and we're all heartbroken and in shock and dealing with the police. My family can fill you in more at a later time.

 

[SMK777]

And they were both overturned. Massei had refused to let independent experts examine the DNA evidence, and when the appeal trial did so, it collapsed completely. Both Massei and Nencini were notorious for absolutely devastating errors. Massei had used the same cell tower to prove that a phone was in Raffaele's apartment one day and outside it on another. Nencini completely misunderstood the phone records, claiming Amanda hasn't let the phone ring for more than a few seconds whe.n calling Meredith when the records only began when the call or voicemail did - as evidenced by all other calls to Meredith's phone from her friends and family being the same length. Marasca-Bruno heavily criticized Nencini for his illogical reasoning



The burglary was discovered ca 12:30, the police were called at 12:51. Not much of a delay, especially when the time in between was spent trying to open Meredith's door and calling relatives - including Raffaele's carabinieri sister - for advice.



That's not what she said. She said Meredith sometimes locked her door - specifying the conditions (when dressing after a shower, among others). Filomena disagreed but a. How would Filomena know that better than Amanda? And b. Filomena at that point wanted the door kicked down without delay. I doubt she was concerned with being meticulously correct at that point.



That call was made at 12:47, just a few minutes before the 112 call. How would that serve as a record when she had already notified Filomena of the break in fifteen minutes earlier and was more than an hour away from her first return to the cottage?

Yes, there may be details that are off but to anyone with any observation or intuition Knox and Sollecito knew what was behind the door and spoke things indicating involvement.

Whether the phone rang a few times or many, she knew there would be no answer.

I still believe the calls to her mother and his sister were for the purpose of creating an appearance of innocence.

 

[minazoe]

I swing from so many different scenarios,

one is owing rent money,

left the door open so Guede could steal MK's money and then share it with Amanda.

an argument with MK that turned violent over something going on in that house, perhaps a 3 way that was walked in on.

that Amanda actually walked in on the crime and did nothing even though she heard everything and ran away,

that blood transfer was cleaned up in Solicito's apartment as well as Amanda's.

that MK did or said something humiliating in front of Amanda's boyfriend, or she was flirting with him.

that perhaps MK had earned something Amanda wanted like a better position at the bar.

that all four of them were in the house doing some kind of bad drugs and Amanda went psycho and they are all

guilty of a cover up.

there are too many holes and 500 lies that are still part of this story.

mOO

 

[fridaybaker]

Sex game. My thoughts always return to my first one.

A.N. et al. were more "adventurous" than M.K. It ended badly. For M.K., at least.

MOO.

 

[minazoe]

Sex game. My thoughts always return to my first one.

A.N. et al. were more "adventurous" than M.K. It ended badly. For M.K., at least.

MOO.

I have trouble with this sex game turning violent. but...let's say she walked in on MK,G and S all together out in the open. would be shocking yes? maybe they thought she would tell people..maybe she threatened to have MK thrown out.. people don't usually snap and kill someone in a sex game. maybe during a violent rape but here doesn't seem to be a violent rape, which makes the story even less believable... that Guede was caught stealing and murdered MK and went to the John and left evidence all over the house even cutting clothing from Merideth, and yet no semen anywhere..just everyone's DNA scattered about....and no doubt all mixed together by the police using improper collection methods.

Guede has never told his story? so interesting.

also Amanda's letter to friends opens the story with the front door being open..like the door has to be open for the story to work right? so the supposition was that the killer left the front door open when he exited the apartment.

she really knows without the door it doesn't work.unless the door automatically locks itself from the inside. mOO

 

[SMK777]

Both Massei and Nencini were notorious for absolutely devastating errors. Massei had used the same cell tower to prove that a phone was in Raffaele's apartment one day and outside it on another. Nencini completely misunderstood the phone records

From, Deceit: The Murder of Meredith Kercher by Nick van der Leek, c. 2015

It appears Judge Massei [see italicized text immediately above] made an error. He got mixed up and switched the locations of the two text messages around. What threw him off, understandably, was the logical impression that if Amanda’s phone was pinging off the Berardi tower closest to Raffaele’s apartment this must indicate she was at Raffaele’s at the time Patrick texted her [20:18]. In fact the second text message, the one that Amanda sent to Patrick at 20:35 was from a tower closer to Patrick’s house, but not the tower that served his residence, even though it was closer. By this we infer that at the time of the second text message [20:35], Amanda wasn’t in the apartment. It seems the second Judge, Nencini, repeated the same error as Massei.
-------‐-----‐------------------------------

The author, who concluded Knox and Sollecito are guilty, says these phone records are of no real import.

 

[minazoe]

another thing..you are very young and attractive, you are having a hot new boyfriend..what are you doing running around town with mops etcetera ? what are you? a cleaning lady? and why on the same day does everyone seem to need this wonderful mop? what was the water that was spilled and just left there when towels or other means could be used to lessen damage to the apartment. everything about that day is chaos. nothing makes sense. Amanda was out late that evening by herself until 1 am. it's just so odd..what if she was supposed to hook up with G at her apartment that night behind Rudi's back..? what if MK came back and found Amanda in her room , going thru her things or looking for something..it's just so clear that the story doesn't make sense. it doesn't make sense.. Did Guede ever confess? did he accept responsibility and clear Amanda? can anyone be believed? They are all so shady! mOO

 

[FergusMcDuck]

The author, who concluded Knox and Sollecito are guilty, says these phone records are of no real import.

To be fair, Nick van der Leek is a talentless hack.

another thing..you are very young and attractive, you are having a hot new boyfriend..what are you doing running around town with mops etcetera ? what are you? a cleaning lady?

Because you're a decent human being, your boyfriend doesn't have a mop to wipe up a water spill and you know you have one in your own apartment within walking distance?

and why on the same day does everyone seem to need this wonderful mop? what was the water that was spilled and just left there when towels or other means could be used to lessen damage to the apartment.

The water would still need to be mopped up. For that a mop is ideal. Amanda knew she had one and offered to take it over to Raffaele's since she was going back there to shower and change anyway.

This is only odd if one wants to make it odd.

everything about that day is chaos. nothing makes sense. Amanda was out late that evening by herself until 1 am.

No, she wasn't.

it's just so odd..what if she was supposed to hook up with G at her apartment that night behind Rudi's back..?

I assume you mean behind Raffaele's back? If she was, there would be some kind of evidence of it, yet there was never any contact between the two.

what if MK came back and found Amanda in her room , going thru her things or looking for something..it's just so clear that the story doesn't make sense. it doesn't make sense.. Did Guede ever confess? did he accept responsibility and clear Amanda? can anyone be believed? They are all so shady! mOO

What is so bizarre about Amanda's story?

"I went to my boyfriend's apartment ca 17:00 and was with him there the whole night."

How does that not make sense?

 

[minazoe]

Amanda was out and about by herself from 9pm until 1am, so not all night.

 

[SMK777]

To be fair, Nick van der Leek is a talentless hack.

The information is correct, and I find him quite astute.

 

[FergusMcDuck]

Amanda was out and about by herself from 9pm until 1am, so not all night.

No, she wasn't. She was in Raffaele's apartment all night, and no evidence to the contrary has ever emerged.

 

[SMK777]

No, she wasn't. She was in Raffaele's apartment all night, and no evidence to the contrary has ever emerged.

Why did Sollecito say to police investigators,
In my former statement I told you a bunch of rubbish, because Amanda had convinced me of her version of events, and I didn't think of the inconsistencies
and then go on to say she'd been gone from 9 pm to 1 am?

☆☆☆During his November 5, 2007 interrogation and subsequent arrest, Sollecito wanted to come clean, and he told police that his previous version to them was “un sacco di cazzate” (a load of rubbish). “In my former statement I told you a load of rubbish because I believed Amanda’s version of what happened and did not think about the inconsistencies.” (The Times, 7 November, 2007)