Amanda Knox found guilty for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy #15

[Amber29]

How does "I accuse" have to be construed such that it undergoes a metamorphosis and emerges as "I confess"?

Thx Otto.

Clearly she didn't consider her false ACCUSATION a confession because she thought she would be free to go after making the statement. She was shocked when they placed her under arrest.

 

[Linda7NJ]

My son, at about the same age, poured juice into the VCR and insisted that it was because the VCR was thirsty.

Hilarious. When he fingered the dog..our conversation went like this...

So you're telling me the dog moved the chair, got ontop the countertop, opened the overhead cabnet, got out the 5 pound bag of sugar, and a spoon, carried it all the way to the living room before spilling it all over the floor? Is that what your telling me?
He thought for a minute, looked up and me and said...yes mom that's exactly what I'm telling you.

I said okay I'm gonna smell the dogs breath...at that point he really did confess.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Irish_Eyes]

The statement that was signed debatie accused Patrick of murder was not part of the trial evidence, so it doesn't really matter what happened as it is not relevant to . e case.

It certainly matters for our purposes. We are not debating what the court ruled but whether the ruling is compatible with justice. You can decide what weight to give it and what it means to you but you cant decide that for others. As long as people are claiming that she brought Lumumba into the discussion to deflect blame for herself (and not the police who saw the "see you later" text to him on her phone) then arguments against that presumption are entirely relevant.

 

[Amber29]

Are those short stories anywhere online?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Did you read the short stories? I can lead you to them if not.

 

[Karmady]

Dershowitz: Lots of evidence against Knox

Dershowitz: Lots of evidence against Knox - YouTube

In the article I posted earlier today, Dershowitz says there's also evidence of innocence and also that there was not enough evidence to prove that she did this beyond a reasonable doubt.

 

[Tugela]

I think that it is very clear that there has been a terrible miscarriage of justice, especially in the case of RS.

The only evidence against RS at all is the bra clasp. There is nothing else whatsoever.

But what about the bra clasp? Supposedly it has DNA from MK (as you would expect) and DNA from RS. The problem is that there are additional DNA peaks on the sample as well, so where did these come from? The prosecution have attempted to explain it away as "stutter" or noise, but it is clearly DNA from someone else. Going on the assumption that MK was in the habit of wearing clean underwear, the only DNA that should have been present if the prosecution's theory is correct would be that from MK and RS. The additional DNA must therefore have been introduced AFTER the murder, but from where? It is obviously contamination and I bet that if they had done their controls properly and tested the investigators as well they would have found who had mishandled the sample.

Remember that this particular evidence was collected about 6 weeks after the murder, and that it was no longer in the same place it had originally been in, which means that it's providence was compromised.

I think it is very strange that they find no evidence at all that RS was there, then they go back 6 weeks later, and suddenly they find something that supports their original theory.

Then later on, this piece of evidence is mysteriously inappropriately stored so that it is destroyed and can no longer be subject to further testing.

IMO what happened is that the sample became contaminated as a result of sloppy work. Perhaps by accident, perhaps by intention. In either event the extra DNA on the sample was effectively the smoking gun that would prove it. Someone in their DNA lab must surely have realized this, and certainly further testing on the sample would have resolved that question. But then all of a sudden the sample is "destroyed".

There is no question to me that this particular piece of evidence is highly compromised and should have been dismissed after it was destroyed as a result. It is mind boggling that an objective judge would even consider it due to the very real possibility of tampering.

IMO there is a pattern for this behaviour, where evidence that might contradict the investigators version mysteriously is no longer available for analysis.

Another example of this is the hard drive, which was destroyed while in LE custody. The contents of the drive could have been used by RS's defence. How is it even possible for this to happen other than extreme incompetence or deliberate act?

Then the initial interrogations, which should have been recorded and should have been conducted with legal representation, but were not. And all that is swept under the rug as if it is unimportant. But it is important, since the accused claimed they were subject to abuse in this time. If LE had been operating according to the law, there would have been records to show what actually happened. But there were not, and again there were not specifically due to LE actions.

These are just some of the many examples of malpractice in this case. The judicial system from the investigators through to the prosecutors through to the judges are all part of the same corrupt system, where they look after their own. There are some exceptions of course, some of the police officers questioned the evidence for example, but they were over-ruled. Hellman questioned most of the evidence and found it severely wanting, but he too was over-ruled, with the supreme court directing the next trial to put greater weight on subjective evidence rather than objective evidence.

No doubt the next supreme court session will do the same, unless there are new judges on it who prefer the objective review rather than the subjective, in which case the trials start all over again.

It is just a shameful travesty of justice IMO, and I really do not know how these people can go to sleep at night given what they are putting this couple through, and all for pride in their corrupt system?

If they want to claim that AK and RS did it, well then prove it beyond reasonable doubt. If they can't do that, then AK and RS should be released. Sending a young couple to prison for half their life simple so that you don't have to admit to the flaws in their justice system is obscene.

 

[otto]

"In the US, Amanda Knox – a house-mate of Meredith’s at the time she was murdered – is widely regarded as an innocent abroad who was abominably treated by the Italian authorities. ...

Many in the US are now seemingly convinced that Knox was coerced by police into false statements, and that the Italian court processes have been a travesty of justice. Yet there seems very little in the way of hard evidence that bears this out. ...

But the prosecution case is not one to be lightly dismissed: as the Harvard law professor Alan Dershowitz put it, the factors that led to Knox’s initial conviction included an admission that she was at the crime scene, her false accusation of an innocent man, an inconsistent alibi and evidence of her DNA on the alleged murder weapon. Those things would not be dismissed as negligible, either in the UK or the US. ...

Yet crimes frequently defy expectations: as any criminal barrister could tell you, you don’t have to look like a monster to be involved in a murder."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-a-crime-that-defies-all-our-assumptions.html

 

[otto]

It certainly matters for our purposes. We are not debating what the court ruled but whether the ruling is compatible with justice. You can decide what weight to give it and what it means to you but you cant decide that for others. As long as people are claiming that she brought Lumumba into the discussion to deflect blame for herself (and not the police who saw the "see you later" text to him on her phone) then arguments against that presumption are entirely relevant.

The statement that Knox signed after a couple of hours on the night of Nov 5 was not admitted into evidence. That is just. That is what everyone believes should have happened and it did happen.

On November 6 and 7, Knox sat down with pen and paper, and voluntarily produced two documents confirming, or standing behind, her accusations against Patrick. It was on that basis that she was prosecuted and convicted for slander. When she produced those two written statements, not one was doing anything to her.

 

[Irish_Eyes]

I would LOVE to hear Barry Scheck's take on this case. I keep thinking I must be missing something, that there must be some smoking gun that I missed in the seven years I have been reading about this case. But there just isn't. Forget the Italian system I'm honestly frightened by the implications to the American system when so many (though notably NOT Dershowitz) would actually find her guilty based on what we know.

 

[Irish_Eyes]

The statement that Knox signed after a couple of hours on the night of Nov 5 was not admitted into evidence. That is just. That is what everyone believes should have happened and it did happen.

On November 6 and 7, Knox sat down with pen and paper, and voluntarily produced two documents confirming, or standing behind, her accusations against Patrick. It was on that basis that she was prosecuted and convicted for slander. When she produced those two written statements, not one was doing anything to her.

Excellent. Totally irrelevant to my initial post though.

 

[otto]

Callan and Moore debate the case again ... very odd perspective of the case

http://outfront.blogs.cnn.com/2014/01/31/amanda-knox-i-will-never-go-willingly-back-to-italy/

 

[SmoothOperator]

Did you read the short stories? I can lead you to them if not.

Will you post a link to the short stories?... TiA

**Please forgive the limitations that come w/my posting via mobile ATM**

 

[Jessica2012]

Was that from his diary?

Yes it was based on his diary.

http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/C197/

 

[Irish_Eyes]

<modsnip>

Is it ridiculous to suggest that there might have been other motives to cleaning the apartment (if in fact the blood wasnt there earlier?) If people lived in this building is it not reasonable to rhink that at some point that it would be cleaned?

The police probably suggested this tidbit to Guede at some point during their questioning though. Guede skipped town and there is no evidence of him communicating with the other case players so how else logically would he know?

 

[otto]

Yes it was based on his diary.

http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/C197/

Thanks. He knew about the blood in the hallway before police could see it, and Knox knew all sorts of things before the coroner did, such as how Meredith died, that she was sexually assaulted, she agreed with Guede that Meredith screamed, and she knew that Meredith was killed near her wardrobe although Meredith was found closer to the bed.

 

[otto]

Is it ridiculous to suggest that there might have been other motives to cleaning the apartment (if in fact the blood wasnt there earlier?) If people lived in this building is it not reasonable to rhink that at some point that it would be cleaned?

The police probably suggested this tidbit to Guede at some point during their questioning though. Guede skipped town and there is no evidence of him communicating with the other case players so how else logically would he know?

He knew that there was blood in the hallway because he saw it.

 

[BritsKate]

I think our justice system is more pro defendant and yes I do prefer that. However my post gave a specific example of the US system clearly having the same susceptibility to sensationalism and fear mongering. Which makes sense as we are all human. I think the nationalistic position comes from those who cant believe that Italian jurisprudence could not possibly be similarly influenced.

Jumping in here (from a long hiatus) to point out the European system is amongst the most 'pro-defendant' in the world. On this side of the pond, our prisons tend to be more posh - with a requirement that inmates must have several choices for meals (sometimes 5 a day), with restrictions due to religious and dietary needs strictly adhered to. Here, life sentences have been ruled as inhumane by the European Court of Human Rights and, as such, banned in some countries already. Here, defendants sometimes remain unnamed to protect their rights and their victim's identity; reduced pre-trial publicity to ensure a defendant's right to a fair trial; televised court proceedings only in recent years and those under strict guidelines - like not recording witnesses or the defendant. Here, mothers convicted can apply to take a child under 18 months to a special prison facility to serve their sentence with their child; here, some inmates are allowed unrestricted access to televisions, games consoles, and gyms; and here, you can theoretically commit a heinous crime at 15, serve 3 or 4 years, and be granted anonymity, relocation, and new identity upon release. Here, special rules apply to those of us who wish to discuss true crime cases - so as not to endanger the defendant's rights to a fair trial. More often than not, you'll see 'comments closed' on news articles concerning a defendant that hasn't been convicted or acquitted because of the laws here.

Not for the first time...nor the last...I will lament, as an American, that Europe is much more pro-defendant than pro-victim. MOO

 

[redheadedgal]

... and she knew that Meredith was killed near her wardrobe although Meredith was found closer to the bed.

this is "closer to the bed"? if so, i think my math skills/sense of direction declined overnight...

http://groundreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Kercher_room_labels_by_Italian_police-298x198.jpg


are the cites for the requested steve moore links forthcoming? been looking forward to reading more about the assertions made ("tortured for 53 hours", what happened in court when he "attended the trial", etc)... tia.

 

[otto]

So who believes Steve Moore's theory of the case:

Guede was a police informant that avoided detention after the Milan break in because Perugia police insisted that he be released to Perugia. When he murdered Meredith, police had no choice but to arrest Knox and Sollecito because this would apparently cover up the fact that their police informant murdered Meredith. The Supreme Court is in on this conspiracy.

 

[otto]

this is "closer to the bed"? if so, i think my math skills/sense of direction declined overnight...

http://groundreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Kercher_room_labels_by_Italian_police-298x198.jpg


are the cites for the requested steve moore links forthcoming? been looking forward to reading more about the assertions made ("tortured for 53 hours", what happened in court when he "attended the trial", etc)... tia.

The link to the video interview was posted long before the list of questions. Here's the transcript. All your questions are answered there

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1401/30/ebo.01.html