Amanda Knox found guilty for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy #16

[LinasK]

I noticed that members who believe that AK and RS are guilty, frequently cite their inappropriate behavior (buying sexy clothes, commenting "did she F***ing bleed to death", etc) as indicative of personalities which conscience-less people have, hence the likelihood of them committing the heinous act is increased (as murder would come easy to them).

I witnessed something the other day, which makes the above point somewhat counter-intuitive. There was a car accident in a parking lot of a super store and an elderly person was killed. As the body was being taken away in the ambulance, I noticed many shoppers standing around, taking pictures, laughing and having a "good time" off of the tragedy at hand. Goes on to show how many people are insensitive, shortsighted and just lack all courtesy in general.

Now, keeping the above incident in mind; is it not possible that AK and RS are two such people. If they did take part in the murder, wouldn't they be more cautious, modest and NOT their usual debonair, carefree, insensitive selves??

So it leads me to conclude that the absolute despicable behavior of the two, post-murder and pre-arrest, is strongly indicating innocence in this crime, and not guilt.

Just my two cents. Thanks for reading.

Not if they are sociopaths/psychopaths. Just look at the behaviors of killers Jodi Arias, Casey Anthony, and Joran Van Der Sloot post-murder for examples. Very similar. Scott Dyleski too.

 

[aa9511]

Rudy Guede took the fast track option to avoid having a joint trial with Amanda and Raffaelle. By doing do, he could imply that others were involved but not actually have to prove it. It also served the interest of the Prosecution, which read a statement signed by Geude in the trail of the other two as evidence, but the others were not allowed to cross examine this so called "witness".

Guede did not actually write this statement. It was in dense Italian legal jargon and clearly written by the prosecutor.

In a bit of legal nonsense, the Italian Supreme Court declared that Meredith was killed by multiple attackers based on the result of Guede's trials where both sides had a vested interest in there being more than one person involved. The prosecution wanted to try others for the same murder and Guede wanted others to share his guilt. Amanda and Raffaelle had no representatives at Guede's trial that was held behind closed doors.

But Footwarrior, RS also had joint trial with Amanda, yet he never testified or was cross-examined. It was his right to remain silent, so I'm sure it would have also been Rudy's right if he had chosen to do regular trial. What I'm saying is that he could not have been forced to talk, just like no defendant can be forced to talk in trial.

Also, it is not Rudy's job to "prove" that other people did it with him. It is not his job to "prove" anything. I am saying this because on this thread, many supporters of Amanda and RS are always saying that it is not Amanda or RS's job to prove their innocence or to prove anything in the case. So the same goes for Rudy.

I'm just saying because it seems like a double standard when applied to Rudy, but Amanda and RS are exempt.

 

[LinasK]

What does "ITA" mean?

I Totally Agree.

 

[Jessica2012]

I must say although I believe in AK's and RS's guilt I can see where all this anti-italianism derived from.

The fact RG could possibly be free next year, the "forgotten" bra clasp story, the "corrupt" prosecutor, the fact that with the little evidence they had they messed around so much, AK not having a translator when she was first questioned, the fact that the questioning was not recorded...
Though I do not believe AK has been hit by the police, I think she was treated pretty harshly by them. Does anyone know if it were policemen or carabinieri? The carabinieri really have some kind of "bad " attitude, they think they stand above everybody.
I do believe AK's story about the police having suggested to her to accuse Lumumba. I can see where that comes from. She wrote in the message "Ci vediamo piu tardi" - see you later. In English you say that all the time, even if you know that you are not going to see that person for a couple of days. But in Italian it means that you will have an appointment a couple of hours later and you will see that person in fact "later". I can imagine the italian police being all over that text message and obviously getting suspicious, thus asking even more questions about her boss and accusing her of being a liar.

I can fully understand the rest of the world beginning to scratch their head about Italy though.
What a weird case.

:seeya:

From what I read back then, the police had called Raffaele in for questioning(because his stories were inconsistent) and specifically asked him not to bring Amanda. She insisted on going anyway.The interpretor had gone home and no one expected Amanda to show up. Anyways Raffaele took away her alibi then.
I don't think it is true she did not have an interpretor because the interpretor was one of the people she accused of hitting her over the head back then. She had also said the interpretor was very rude having been woken up from their sleep to come back to the station.

 

[LinasK]

I must say although I believe in AK's and RS's guilt I can see where all this anti-italianism derived from.

The fact RG could possibly be free next year, the "forgotten" bra clasp story, the "corrupt" prosecutor, the fact that with the little evidence they had they messed around so much, AK not having a translator when she was first questioned, the fact that the questioning was not recorded...
Though I do not believe AK has been hit by the police, I think she was treated pretty harshly by them. Does anyone know if it were policemen or carabinieri? The carabinieri really have some kind of "bad " attitude, they think they stand above everybody.
I do believe AK's story about the police having suggested to her to accuse Lumumba. I can see where that comes from. She wrote in the message "Ci vediamo piu tardi" - see you later. In English you say that all the time, even if you know that you are not going to see that person for a couple of days. But in Italian it means that you will have an appointment a couple of hours later and you will see that person in fact "later". I can imagine the italian police being all over that text message and obviously getting suspicious, thus asking even more questions about her boss and accusing her of being a liar.

I can fully understand the rest of the world beginning to scratch their head about Italy though.
What a weird case.

:seeya:

Thanks for the translations, and the insight into Italy.:seeya: I took Italian way back in high school.

 

[aa9511]

Uh uh... guess who I just saw...

Where is the follow-up to this? Seattlechiquita, please come back!!! I scrolled down to find your answer but never found it!!! Who did you see??

 

[aa9511]

From what I read back then, the police had called Raffaele in for questioning(because his stories were inconsistent) and specifically asked him not to bring Amanda. She insisted on going anyway.The interpretor had gone home and no one expected Amanda to show up. Anyways Raffaele took away her alibi then.
I don't think it is true she did not have an interpretor because the interpretor was one of the people she accused of hitting her over the head back then. She had also said the interpretor was very rude having been woken up from their sleep to come back to the station.

Jessica2012, do you think Amanda insisted on going because she was afraid to leave RS alone and what he would tell police?? The way you wrote it just now, made me have kind of an Aha moment. I had never actually thought of it that way before.

What do you think?

It is rather odd that she followed him around everywhere, even to the police station. I don't know about the other way around, meaning if RS was the same way with Amanda after the murder. Could be, I just don't know because I haven't heard anything regarding that.

I'm sure the supporters of her innocence will have a different interpretation (for example, she went to the police station because innocent and wasn't worried), but I have opposite interpretation: that why would someone want to go to the police station if innocent? If it was me, I would have rather stayed at home curled up in bed listening to music or watching movies on my laptop, or reading in Amanda's case. If RS was innocent, she would expect that he will just answer a few questions and come back home.

 

[LinasK]

Where is the follow-up to this? Seattlechiquita, please come back!!! I scrolled down to find your answer but never found it!!! Who did you see??

I'm guessing it was AK since they are both in Seattle. At least it means Amanda hasn't fled yet!!

 

[Linda7NJ]

From what I read back then, the police had called Raffaele in for questioning(because his stories were inconsistent) and specifically asked him not to bring Amanda. She insisted on going anyway.The interpretor had gone home and no one expected Amanda to show up. Anyways Raffaele took away her alibi then.

I don't think it is true she did not have an interpretor because the interpretor was one of the people she accused of hitting her over the head back then. She had also said the interpretor was very rude having been woken up from their sleep to come back to the station.

Who bought her the cappuccino ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[italianWSfan]

From what I read back then, the police had called Raffaele in for questioning(because his stories were inconsistent) and specifically asked him not to bring Amanda. She insisted on going anyway.The interpretor had gone home and no one expected Amanda to show up. Anyways Raffaele took away her alibi then.
I don't think it is true she did not have an interpretor because the interpretor was one of the people she accused of hitting her over the head back then. She had also said the interpretor was very rude having been woken up from their sleep to come back to the station.

Thanks I havent heard that before. Makes her behaviour even more suspicious! :moo:

 

[Footwarrior]

But Footwarrior, RS also had joint trial with Amanda, yet he never testified or was cross-examined. It was his right to remain silent, so I'm sure it would have also been Rudy's right if he had chosen to do regular trial. What I'm saying is that he could not have been forced to talk, just like no defendant can be forced to talk in trial.

Also, it is not Rudy's job to "prove" that other people did it with him. It is not his job to "prove" anything. I am saying this because on this thread, many supporters of Amanda and RS are always saying that it is not Amanda or RS's job to prove their innocence or to prove anything in the case. So the same goes for Rudy.

I'm just saying because it seems like a double standard when applied to Rudy, but Amanda and RS are exempt.

At their joint trial, both RS And AK were represented by lawyers who were free to question any witness including the other defendant.

In this latest appeal, facts were declared true based on the findings of a separate trial where the interests of neither AK nor RS were represented.<modsnip>

 

[aa9511]

I'm guessing it was AK since they are both in Seattle. At least it means Amanda hasn't fled yet!!

LOL! :floorlaugh:

Maybe that haircut was the beginning of her disguise.....

 

[LinasK]

LOL! :floorlaugh:

Maybe that haircut was the beginning of her disguise.....

That's like Scott Peterson dying his hair orange, then claiming it was pool chlorine!

 

[aa9511]

That's like Scott Peterson dying his hair orange, then claiming it was pool chlorine!

Oh wow.

 

[Jessica2012]

Jessica2012, do you think Amanda insisted on going because she was afraid to leave RS alone and what he would tell police?? The way you wrote it just now, made me have kind of an Aha moment. I had never actually thought of it that way before.

What do you think?

It is rather odd that she followed him around everywhere, even to the police station. I don't know about the other way around, meaning if RS was the same way with Amanda after the murder. Could be, I just don't know because I haven't heard anything regarding that.

I'm sure the supporters of her innocence will have a different interpretation (for example, she went to the police station because innocent and wasn't worried), but I have opposite interpretation: that why would someone want to go to the police station if innocent? If it was me, I would have rather stayed at home curled up in bed listening to music or watching movies on my laptop, or reading in Amanda's case. If RS was innocent, she would expect that he will just answer a few questions and come back home.

I think they were both very paranoid. I remember when Rudy was caught, Raffaele had admitted being afraid Rudy would frame him. (Why fear this if they had never met Rudy before?)
Another telling sign was Amanda said Patrick Lumbamba scared her but when asked she said she was not afraid of Rudy at all.

I do not think Amanda was afraid at all of being left alone. I really believe she thought Raffaele would turn on her, and she really wanted to know what he was asked and what he answered. I never got the feeling RS was afraid Amanda would turn on him, though she did once he took away her alibi. I think she always wanted to remain close to the investigation and monitor it's progression. There was no need for her to stay there at all if she was afraid of being alone, she would have gone home like everyone else did.

Another thing I find odd is that in one of her interviews (I think it was the very first one after she was released with Barbara Walters) when asked why she broke up with Raffaele she replied that one reason was he took away her alibi and the second was because they were in jail and not able to see eachother. Now in my opinion, if police really harassed her into falsely accusing Patrick, wouldn't she have the same logic as to why Raffaele took away her alibi? She obviously didn't and broke up with him. All my opinion

 

[Footwarrior]

From what I read back then, the police had called Raffaele in for questioning(because his stories were inconsistent) and specifically asked him not to bring Amanda. She insisted on going anyway.The interpretor had gone home and no one expected Amanda to show up. Anyways Raffaele took away her alibi then.
I don't think it is true she did not have an interpretor because the interpretor was one of the people she accused of hitting her over the head back then. She had also said the interpretor was very rude having been woken up from their sleep to come back to the station.

The chief investigator testified that he did order both suspects to be brought back in for questioning. The police department seems to have screwed up and only called RS.

When Amanda walked into the police station that night, she was already in a sleep deprived state. The police had questioned her into the pre dawn hours of the morning every night since the murder had been discovered. She was allowed to go home, but called back each day after getting perhaps 3 hours of sleep. That Monday, she spent the day attending classes at the university, ran a few errands and had a late dinner with RS before going back to the police station.

How coherent are you after getting only 3 hours of sleep each night for several days?

 

[otto]

Jessica2012, do you think Amanda insisted on going because she was afraid to leave RS alone and what he would tell police?? The way you wrote it just now, made me have kind of an Aha moment. I had never actually thought of it that way before.

What do you think?

It is rather odd that she followed him around everywhere, even to the police station. I don't know about the other way around, meaning if RS was the same way with Amanda after the murder. Could be, I just don't know because I haven't heard anything regarding that.

I'm sure the supporters of her innocence will have a different interpretation (for example, she went to the police station because innocent and wasn't worried), but I have opposite interpretation: that why would someone want to go to the police station if innocent? If it was me, I would have rather stayed at home curled up in bed listening to music or watching movies on my laptop, or reading in Amanda's case. If RS was innocent, she would expect that he will just answer a few questions and come back home.

One of her early stories was that she was afraid to be alone because of the murder and that she didn't have anywhere to stay, and because she was staying at Sollecito's apartment she went with him to the police station.

She could have booked a room somewhere ... youth hostel, cheap hotel, but she was staying with Sollecito. She could have stayed at Sollecito's apartment while he answered questions too. I think they didn't want to be separated because they didn't know how the investigation was going and what would happen next, so they felt better if they were together.

 

[Jessica2012]

She did have an interpretor at the police station. The interpretor was Anna Donnino

http://abcnews.go.com/m/story?id=7077850

 

[otto]

At their joint trial, both RS And AK were represented by lawyers who were free to question any witness including the other defendant.

In this latest appeal, facts were declared true based on the findings of a separate trial where the interests of neither AK nor RS were represented.<modsnip>

Do you mean that most of the conclusions from the trial were accepted by the appeal court, and only a few points were accepted for re-litigation? That's quite different than a trial were certain facts are declared true without defense arguments.

 

[aa9511]

I think they were both very paranoid. I remember when Rudy was caught, Raffaele had admitted being afraid Rudy would frame him. (Why fear this if they had never met Rudy before?)
Another telling sign was Amanda said Patrick Lumbamba scared her but when asked she said she was not afraid of Rudy at all.

I do not think Amanda was afraid at all of being left alone. I really believe she thought he would turn on her, and she really wanted to know what he was asked and what he answered. I never got the feeling RS was afraid Amanda would turn on him, though she did once he took away her alibi. I think she always wanted to remain close to the investigation and monitor it's progression. There was no need for her to stay there at all if she was afraid of being alone, she would have gone home like everyone else did.

Another thing I find odd is that in one of her interviews (I think it was the very first one after she was released with Barbara Walters) when asked why she broke up with Raffaele she replied that one reason was he took away her alibi and the second was because they were in jail and not able to see eachother. Now in my opinion, if police really harassed her into falsely accusing Patrick, wouldn't she have the same logic as to why Raffaele took away her alibi? She obviously didn't and broke up with him. All my opinion

ITA. That is very interesting about those comments re: breaking up with RS. What you said would be the logical thing in that situation - you would expect someone else in the exact same situation to have gone through what you did. And to be understanding of that, since same thing happened to you. She probably realized when she said it that it would sound odd, and so made up the "being apart from each other in jail" part on the spot and added it in after that.

That goes along with the Guardian interview she did recently, where she was asked about RS changing his alibi, and she said (paraphrasing), that she was just really shocked, she couldn't think why he would do that, etc., etc., until finally the friend says "and because it wasn't the truth." And then Amanda was like, "oh yeah and because it wasn't the truth."