Amanda Knox found guilty for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy #16

[otto]

Yes, I do not think she took a shower or did any of the things she claimed to have done in her morning cottage story. ITA.

Investigators said that Knox did not appear, nor smell, freshly showered when they arrived at the scene of the murder.

 

[redheadedgal]

It is rather odd that she followed him around everywhere, even to the police station.

If she was afraid of being alone (as she said, because of the murder) she could easily have gone to a cafe or public place and waited while RS was at the police station.

i thought she did this to not be alone... i personally would want to be with my boyfriend/the only other person trusted in perugia over alone in some cafe if my roommate was just murdered...

I'm guessing it was AK since they are both in Seattle. At least it means Amanda hasn't fled yet!!

and where would she flee to exactly? she's safer in the US than anywhere else.

Maybe that haircut was the beginning of her disguise.....

as predicted lol

I am not doing this to be stubborn, Redhead, but I honestly think that that imprint is just too vague for us to be able to tell anything from it. In the picture you just posted, you see that there is a big red splotch and some red splotches to the outside upper left of your knife outline, which could also be the outline for a bigger knife. I don't think that that imprint proves conclusively that RS butcher knife is not a knife used in the murder. I'm sorry, again I am not trying to be stubborn or just to "argue", just being honest.

ok, thanks aa

I know for sure he was one of her male attorneys that claims he instructed her to go.

but no link to back up the claim again?

 

[otto]

I would loved to have been a fly on the wall in those Seattle discussions, although I do wonder if they were actually left alone at any point. The reason I say, is that Amanda's parents must have a clue in the back of their mind that they were actually involved in the murder, and they would not want to leave the two of them alone to strategize together. Same with Amanda's lawyers. They would believe it's not good for Amanda's case. IMO. That's what I would do if it were my "child." I would not want them to be alone together and make a bigger mess out of the case than they already had.



I absolutely agree that he was there. I'm just talking about it in terms of evidence. I believe RS had more of a chance to plant reasonable doubt that Amanda did. I believe any defense attorney would have seen this?

There were photos of them in NY, but Edda was in pretty much every photo except the phone booth. (cell phone time) They were always chaperoned by Knox's crew. I'm sure that Knox's parents knew that something was wrong when Knox admitted that she lied when she implicated Patrick. Instead of going to police and telling them that Patrick's arrest was an enormous misunderstanding, which is now claimed, they all remained silent. That's an odd thing for a parent to do if they believe that everything is a huge misunderstanding. Why wouldn't a parent immediately give information to clear up the misunderstanding? Edda's claim that she didn't speak Italian is hollow, as Italians speak English. Perpetrating the misunderstanding did not help, and it appears that it was only done for one reason: to continue covering up involvement.

Knox and Sollecito probably really need to talk to each other, but they can't do it electronically, and with a chaperone, they can't do it alone. No wonder they are becoming fractured, with Sollecito trying to run out the side exit and Knox acting like a garden gnome.

 

[redheadedgal]

Okay, so obviously she was not spending a quiet evening at Rafe's apartment, which calls his alibi into question too.

amanda corrected herself shortly after her interrogation/"confession"... the reporter either got her facts wrong or wrote what she wanted...

It is interesting that the official responds to these questions in much the same way as former Secretary of State Hilary Clinton did several years ago: Leave it to the Italian legal process:

Yes, and she stated clearly that we have an extradition treaty with Italy.

i read something about the state dept. "closely monitoring the case" and extradition is looked at on a "case by case basis"... and weren't several instances where extradition wasn't ordered mentioned too?

 

[otto]

[/B]

bbm

Yes, Otto, exactly! You have Nancy Grace down to the letter!! :floorlaugh:

That is exactly what she would say. She would see what the evidence shows, and she would see right through Amanda.

It's true Nancy is beholden to CNN, but she also is probably worried about her own viewership and her own ratings. That's why she is conspicuously silent on this case.

If Juan Martinez had done a cross on Amanda, there would be no doubt left in anyone's mind what the truth of Amanda is. She would have been caught in so many lies. Too bad.

JMO.

I think she's silent because she represents victims in America, not British women in Italy.

We don't really understand what was said in court during the trial unless we understand Italian, as far as I'm concerned. I have no doubt that the prosecutor was clever. There is no other reason for the defense to paint him as a satanic lunatic.

The defense didn't say that the prosecutor was inexperienced, or played dirty, or that he broke the law. They couldn't because it wasn't true. Instead the Prosecutor was accused of being a Satanic Lunatic that persecutes American women because they are pretty. The only other reason I've heard about why the prosecutor would persecute an American woman is that allegedly Guede is a police informant and it was necessary to cause an international spectacle to cover up that their police informant committed murder ... a conspiracy all the way from the street cop to the Supreme Court of Italy.

 

[LinasK]

amanda corrected herself shortly after her interrogation/"confession"... the reporter either got her facts wrong or wrote what she wanted...

Or... Amanda was in CYA mode after she realized what she'd said...

 

[aa9511]

There were photos of them in NY, but Edda was in pretty much every photo except the phone booth. (cell phone time) They were always chaperoned by Knox's crew. I'm sure that Knox's parents knew that something was wrong when Knox admitted that she lied when she implicated Patrick. Instead of going to police and telling them that Patrick's arrest was an enormous misunderstanding, which is now claimed, they all remained silent. That's an odd thing for a parent to do if they believe that everything is a huge misunderstanding. Why wouldn't a parent immediately give information to clear up the misunderstanding? Edda's claim that she didn't speak Italian is hollow, as Italians speak English. Perpetrating the misunderstanding did not help, and it appears that it was only done for one reason: to continue covering up involvement.

Knox and Sollecito probably really need to talk to each other, but they can't do it electronically, and with a chaperone, they can't do it alone. No wonder they are becoming fractured, with Sollecito trying to run out the side exit and Knox acting like a garden gnome.

bbm

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

In the CNN interview, I think Amber pointed out, that when Anderson asked him whether he keeps in contact with Amanda, and he said at first a strong "yeah," and then hedged and said, sometimes, when we can...or something like that.

But I am wondering how do they keep in contact?

I mean, I suppose they can do it electronically or text or phone as long as it does not discuss the murder, but what would they say to each other otherwise? I would think that would be a very strange thing to do, to just talk about superficial things, knowing what is underneath it all.

And I see virtually no way for them to communicate with each other about the murder itself.

What do you think? Do you think they would ever have had opportunity after they were released to discuss the murder? How do you suppose they communicate with each other otherwise? Or is everything done through lawyers?

 

[redheadedgal]

This was recently added to the TrueJustice site:

http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index..._into_the_large_knife_provides_further_proof/

Thank you. I see the double image clearly in those pics. I also see that it is very clearly the shape of a butcher knife, and nothing like the slim shape of a pocket knife. I do not know how a pocket knife can be confused with that shape. JMO.

as that site is biased in favor of guilt, i won't even look.

but, if you believe it, please explain why mignini himself claimed that a second knife had to be in play since the kitchen knife did not match the wounds or the stain?

The way I see it is - AK and RS are two self indulgent "teenagers" who are extremely immature and pampered by rich parents. RS father calling him every 60 minutes as a near college graduate!!!! Really?

They both were clueless and aimless. AK appeared as the penultimate air head "hottie" and based on her recent theatrics on network TV it appears she has NOT grown in stature or intelligence, since her infamous 2007 killing spree.

They knew each other for some 2 weeks - maximum. For AK this guy was another attractive piece of "meat" that she could munch on for awhile.

They were irretrievably bound up by a mutual crime and participation in a mutual lie. AK certainly had no mature feelings of loyalty for this RS guy. AK who probably had the requisite criminal mind in this affair made sure RS toed the line during all phases of the investigation.

there are so many inaccuracies in this post; i've bolded 4 ...

 

[aa9511]

Or... Amanda was in CYA mode after she realized what she'd said...

Major damage control mode.

 

[aa9511]

as that site is biased in favor of guilt, i won't even look.

but, if you believe it, please explain why mignini himself claimed that a second knife had to be in play since the kitchen knife did not match the wounds or the stain?




there are so many inaccuracies in this post; i've bolded 4 ...

bbm

I understand, as I never look at those groundreport articles. Although after I stated that I don't look at some things because I don't see what the point is if the whole point of the article/site/whatever is for the author(s) to skew information in order to get people to think what they want them to think - after that I got many subtle hints from some supporters of innocence that I am not open-minded and that I don't want to read things contrary to my personal opinion. So it made me second-guess why I was honest in the frst place.

So I completely understand where you are coming from.

I will of course read things which are of academic background or mainstream media or some objective link someone has linked to. I do not read the groundreport links.

But, however, because I was honest, after that as I said, I got subtle hints that I am not open-minded.

Anyway.

I thought he came to conclusion that there were two knives based on the stab wounds?

 

[italianWSfan]

I do NOT believe for one nanosecond that the Italian police or crime investigators induced AK to conjure the Patrice L story.
If this woman were completely innocent why would she invent a story of the "black man culprit", the crying and screaming, the hands to the ears??? If an innocent person creates a story it would unlikely contain all the intricate details of the actual crime unless the confessor were clairvoyant.

Plus AK in a written statement was quite explicit about many of the actual elements of the crime.

Even if an innocent AK received a seemingly neutral text message about work and "see you later", the leap to complicity in an actual crime is absurd UNLESS she, in a rather lame fashion, attempted her first pass at implicating someone else for her crime.

As a final note I tend to disregard most if not all of AK 's story of her police interrogation experiences. AK is a skilled resolute liar of the caliber of Jodi Arias. It is actually difficult to know what parts of her story have any basis in reality, since most of her complaints are overtly self serving.

I see I was using the wrong words, just clearing up my opinion now: I do not believe police suggested the whole story about Lumumba to her. But they were insisting she had an appointment with him on the evening of the murder (because of her text message). So Knox maybe thought "well, they want to hear about lumumba so hey- maybe that is actually quite a good idea to accuse him as police now seem to think he had something to do with the murder anyway - I should just tell them some story and they will let me go!"
Of course she fabricated a huge story.and accused her boss. But what i tried to say that I see where her later explanation for her lie came from. Police were probaby the first who mentioned Lumumbas name - not knox. Police "suggested" his name to knox and that gave her the idea of accusing him already and thus fabricating a big lie. That is no excuse to lie of course.
I hope I was able to get my point across this time, i find it difficult to express abstract thoughts in english.
I believe she is guilty, but that might not be the truth. only Meredith knows what really happened. I just hope she gets the justice she deserves.

Sent from my LG-E440 using Tapatalk

 

[redheadedgal]

Laura testified that although she was out of town at the time of the murder, she did notice the injury to Knox's neck, and she testified that it did not look like a hickey.

remember i posted a whole page full of photos of hickeys that looked like the mark on amanda's neck, and even aa, IIRC, was surprised as the similarity??

There's a grove in the knife. The DNA was found in a grove, a spot that was missed in the bleaching of the knife.

no mention about stefanoni's amplification of the dna beyond accepted limits? no mention of stefanoni's lab not being certified to perform low copy dna testing? no mention of why stefanoni did no control test? no mention about why stefanoni tried so hard to hide her raw data? no mention why the court demanded the defense prove contamination occurred instead of making the prosecution prove the results were fair and valid?

 

[Linda7NJ]

remember i posted a whole page full of photos of hickeys that looked like the mark on amanda's neck, and even aa, IIRC, was surprised as the similarity??




no mention about stefanoni's amplification of the dna beyond accepted limits? no mention of stefanoni's lab not being certified to perform low copy dna testing? no mention of why stefanoni did no control test? no mention about why stefanoni tried so hard to hide her raw data? no mention why the court demanded the defense prove contamination occurred instead of making the prosecution prove the results were fair and valid?

Photos are not the same as seeing something with your own eyes and up close.

Because ya just simply can not magically create a match to a murder victim out of thin air.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[sherlockh]

Massei report

On these matters, the considerations already made must be recalled, which led this Court to evaluate the outcome of the genetic investigation as reliable, and this knife as absolutely compatible with the most serious wound.

 

[sherlockh]

Massei report

The Scientific Police had asked for this certification. She added that when the analyses under discussion were performed, there was no public agency which possessed this certification. The Scientific Police and the RACIS (now the RIS) of the Carabinieri were the first to request it.
She explained that in order to obtain the certification, they were not in the process of modifying, nor needed to modify, anything in their methods of analysis, or in their facilities, machines or anything else. They only had to document certain things. In fact, she explained, "in reality, this type of certification certifies that all the instruments and all the steps and phases of the work have been done with instruments, machines, diagnostic kits and analytical kits which are in their turn certified; thus, in practice, it is a certification that everything in use which could be certified has been, but it does not actually change anything" (page 71).

 

[sherlockh]

It is interesting to see that the top part of the kitchen knife fits the knife bed print, but I can also understand that a smaller knife might fit. After all, the depth of the wound was about half the length of the blade so it is the top of the blade that was bloody (and it is the top half of the blade that showed scratch marks). Massei doesn't find the bed print very useful because he concludes that the knife was not put there right after the stabbings so it did not leave a clear imprint. He rejected the attempt by the defense who said that it was smaller than the kitchen knife.

Massei report

The reconstruction offered by Professor Vinci certainly appears suggestive. Some doubt remains in the reconstruction of the dimensions of the knife derived in relation from the marks found on the bed sheet. If these marks indeed derived from the knife placed on the bed sheet, then they should in fact have been more abundant, and should have outlined the shape of the knife with greater precision, for the following reason: the knife, if it was placed on the bed sheet, was placed there immediately after it had been used to strike Meredith; therefore, the fresh and abundant bloodstains present on the blade should have been imprinted onto the bed sheet in a more evident and copious way than is actually appreciable. It cannot in any case remain unobserved that, if one of the knives used had a blade length of 11.3cm, or else 9.6 cm – according to what was indicated by Professor Vinci in the conclusions to his report – the argumentation set forth to sustain the incompatibility of the knife Exhibit 36 would not, on this alone, have any foundation.

 

[redheadedgal]

So I completely understand where you are coming from.

I thought he came to conclusion that there were two knives based on the stab wounds?

for you, i looked

as expected, imo, the top edge of the knife does not line up.

and, how do you explain the largest stain which has a distinctive three sided edge to it? that looks like the leading edge of the handle to me...

(click on the photo and it'll open up to a larger version where this is easily seen)

i believe it was nina burleigh who reported mignini changed his theory based on the stain: http://www.moneyandmarkets.com/news/why-amanda-knox-is-completely-innocent-57985

but yes, this site agrees with your two knives theory: http://www.sciencespheres.com/2010/04/inevitable-unexpected-and-theory-of.html


i do have to agree with part of your critical analyis of SK's article... he was wrong to state that RG's dna was found in sperm... but remember that until SMK posted that there was no rape, we all thought there was? is it not possible that SK made a similar assumption that male dna in MK's vagina = sperm?

 

[Harmony 2]

remember i posted a whole page full of photos of hickeys that looked like the mark on amanda's neck, and even aa, IIRC, was surprised as the similarity??




no mention about stefanoni's amplification of the dna beyond accepted limits? no mention of stefanoni's lab not being certified to perform low copy dna testing? no mention of why stefanoni did no control test? no mention about why stefanoni tried so hard to hide her raw data? no mention why the court demanded the defense prove contamination occurred instead of making the prosecution prove the results were fair and valid?

Random post: I clicked on the science sphere link in your signature. Mark Waterbury outlines how a simple straightforward explanation of the evidence seems to have been replaced by a complicated series of speculated motives and sequence of events. I was amused by his analogy using Rube Goldberg's cartoon.

link

 

[Footwarrior]

Guede was found guilty of participating in the murder. He admitted that he was there, but stated that he did not commit the murder. The prosecution theory has been that Knox stabbed Meredith with the large knife, and Sollecito stabbed her with the smaller knife. Guede was convicted for being there and participating, so it is the same.

They each received the same sentence.

The prosecution had a theory, therefore it must have happened that way?

The evidence clearly shows Guede was there when the crime occurred. He left a handprint and shoe prints in the victims blood. He left his DNA on and inside the victim. He admitted to arriving at the cottage around 8:30, before Meredith got home on that fateful night. At a time when a witness confirms that Raffaelle and Amanda were a half kilometer away.

The evidence clearly shows that Meredith died shortly after arriving home. She was attacked while still wearing her jacket. The pizza she had eaten at 6:30 had not yet started to pass from her stomach, indicating she died before 9:30. Meredith died while the young lovers were still fiddling with video files on Raffaelle's computer.

 

[Hope4More]

Over the past few days I've read for the first time translations of the original evidence, trial and appeal materials, etc. Until now haven't had an opinion about her guilt or innocence.

After reading hundreds and hundreds of pages of original material, for me it seems pretty clear cut that Knox is guilty. One of the most compelling pieces of evidence , IMO, were Guede's bloody footprints heading straight out the door. He killed and fled.

Who then, other than Knox (with or without her creepy boyfriend) could possibly have tried to clean up the scene?