Amanda Knox New Motivation Report RE: Meredith Kercher Murder #1 *new trial ordered*

[Malkmus]

John Kercher's book is now out -- has anyone read it?

Slightly OT, I can find many parallels between the murder of Meredith Kercher and the case outlined here...

I bought it. In the process of reading it. Was surprised to see it is almost entirely about the investigation and trial, so of course Amanda is featured heavily in it. I had been under the impression beforehand that it would make scarce mention of her or the case and that it was supposed to be about Meredith up until she went to Perugia. Will post a follow-up of impressions once I've finished.

 

[SkewedView]

Yeah right :what: . He has seen every bit (that he wanted to see) of the evidence in the case. Has said before that the right ones were arrested, and even now believes that the two lovebirds might get away with murder... as they have so far.

Bold By Me

Yeah, he, along with investigators, saw what they wanted to see - a very common trait in false convictions/investigations gone down the wrong path...

It doesn't take a conspiracy, just LE starting off a chain of events by fitting the evidence to a theory, instead of vice versa as they are supposed to. Prosecutors, juries, the media & the public have all been fooled by such investigations gone awry on numerous occasions, and in those cases all of the above have demonstrated a disturbing tendency to hold tight to their original take on things regardless of what evidence comes to light later on.

All JMO

 

[Allusonz]

Mignini and Comodi under investigation

"Giuliano Mignini and Manuela Comodi are accused of spending $240,000 for a 20-minute animated video, using avatars, to explain their theory of how victim Meredith Kercher was murdered. The graphic 3D video shows Kercher being held down by Knox and her former boyfriend, Raffaele Sollecito. Knox is shown wielding a knife."

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlin...xs-italian-prosecutors-face-own-legal-battle/

 

[otto]

Interesting foot print analysis:

Perugia Murder File

 

[otto]

Mignini and Comodi under investigation

"Giuliano Mignini and Manuela Comodi are accused of spending $240,000 for a 20-minute animated video, using avatars, to explain their theory of how victim Meredith Kercher was murdered. The graphic 3D video shows Kercher being held down by Knox and her former boyfriend, Raffaele Sollecito. Knox is shown wielding a knife."

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlin...xs-italian-prosecutors-face-own-legal-battle/

Wasn't the first use of animation to dipict or recreate the crime scenario in California? I read something about that recently, but don't remember the details ... will post if I come across it again. I know that computer animated crime reconstructions have been done for years ... it's also not surprising that it is very expensive.

 

[otto]

John Kercher's book is now out -- has anyone read it?

Slightly OT, I can find many parallels between the murder of Meredith Kercher and the case outlined here...

Interesting case. It also presents us with another example of a murder where the child was left alive by the murderer, and the murderer was not the father (ref: Michelle Young, NC).

It sounds like investigators started with tunnel vision and then they couldn't or wouldn't let it go. Hopefully that will never happen again. I don't think that's what happened in the investigation into the murder of Meredith Kercher. I think the evidence ... broken window, footprints, unusual activities, shower, phone calls, mop story, diary entries, "I could kill for a pizza" post-murder remark, ever changing dinner hour, and lies; lots and lots of lies ... led to three suspects.

Italian judicial practices, like the jury being Judges, were questioned during the trial, but that is also the case in Canada ... the jury are judges and the judge helps them interpret the law through lengthy instructions. Many comments were made about the court clothing worn in Italy ... and so it is in Canada ... Prosecutors wear "penguin" suits (short jackets, striped pants, gown, collar, etc.). The Judge also has an outfit, but not the jury. The jury can't discuss the case ever ... not even after a verdict. Computer generated re-enactments are not that unusual, yet when used in this Italian trial ... it drew enormous criticism. The suspects were questioned without a lawyer. That also happens in Canada ... not that strange after all ... suspects are questioned, sometimes more than once, sometimes for long hours, offered food, sometimes arrested, then held ... sometimes until they are convicted ... just like in Italy. Suspects are lied to, ridiculed ... but they are also offered a blanket to curl under. They are placed in cells with undercover officers ... a bit like having a conversation recorded and being coerced to self-incriminate. Another thing Canadian trials have in common with Italian trials ... everyone and the court takes lots of breaks so they can look after other parts of their job at the same time.

Is there anything about the Italian Justice system during the trial for the murder of Meredith Kercher that was somehow not working, or medievalish? I remember discussions not only about how officers of the court dressed, but also about the outfits of the general public. In Canada, there are also expectations about decorum so dressing for court is a bit like dressing for church.

(ref: Victoria Stafford)

 

[otto]

Another interesting debate during the trial was that stories written by a suspect about murdering women were known to the public, and the assumption was that the Italian jury may somehow be exposed to that information ... meaning the jury couldn't reach a fair verdict because the media was all over the case. In Canada, trials are decided on fact, not acts, so no character evidence is allowed. The short story would be considered character evidence in Canada.

In the US, trials often lead with character evidence. In the US, a short story written by a defendant about murdering a young woman would have been admissable at trial and it would have cast a very negative shadow over the suspect ... jurors would have been deliberately tainted before they heard the evidence.

The fact that the jury was not sequestered during trial was nothing unusual ... and there was no reason to suspect that the jury was unable to avoid media during trial. It happens in many countries all over the world ... the jury is entrusted to avoid everything related to the case and they follow the judges instructions ... right down to wearing the court sashes in their roles as jurors (when in Italy).

 

[otto]

It's like the puzzle pieces for defence of guilty client:

"As her lawyer spoke, Liard shifted her body and faced the jury with a sad expression on her face while her male accomplice looked dazed and concerned, staring straight ahead.

Grill said his client was probably guided by intense anxiety, fear, alcohol and marijuana.

In his closing remarks to the jury, Liard’s lawyer Daniel Brodsky said there was no eyewitness, confession or forensic evidence suggesting his client, Liard, was guilty of murder or even in LaSota’s bedroom when the killing took place."

Not the Dazed, Confused and Drugged story again! ... with the usual "I don't remembers" and lies (ref: Laird, Knox)

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/a...n-to-jury-in-defence-lawyer-s-closing-remarks

She wasn't in the bedroom, they say, but after luring the child she gave her to an older man; her boyfriend ... and the child was stabbed 37 times and beaten, but the accused woman did nothing because she and her couple accomplice claim that she didn't enter the bedroom? Why didn't she do anything? Is she completely stupid that when a child is being murdered in the bedroom, and she is in the hallway outside the bedroom, she cannot make the right choice? She was trying to make him like her and she was willing to do anything ... and now she needs to be put away for a long time for participating in that brutal murder "for kicks".

Would Rafferty ever have the guts to tell Victoria's mother that her daughter was murdered "for kicks"? That's what Rafferty and McClintic were up to that day ... getting off on hurting someone.

 

[Malkmus]

Another interesting debate during the trial was that stories written by a suspect about murdering women were known to the public, and the assumption was that the Italian jury may somehow be exposed to that information ... meaning the jury couldn't reach a fair verdict because the media was all over the case. In Canada, trials are decided on fact, not acts, so no character evidence is allowed. The short story would be considered character evidence in Canada.

ETA: Saw after I posted this your next post was exactly about Liard!

In the US, trials often lead with character evidence. In the US, a short story written by a defendant about murdering a young woman would have been admissable at trial and it would have cast a very negative shadow over the suspect ... jurors would have been deliberately tainted before they heard the evidence.

The fact that the jury was not sequestered during trial was nothing unusual ... and there was no reason to suspect that the jury was unable to avoid media during trial. It happens in many countries all over the world ... the jury is entrusted to avoid everything related to the case and they follow the judges instructions ... right down to wearing the court sashes in their roles as jurors (when in Italy).

I think in the case of Michelle Liard, the Canadian acquitted of murder, who wrote a story about murdering a girl with her boyfriend, that is strong character evidence. It was a fantasy in which she used her name and her boyfriend's to describe the thrill of murdering a girl. It's beyond me how she walked away scott free given the other evidence.
However, with Amanda Knox, she did not write a story about murdering a girl. She wrote a story about a young man reprimanding his younger brother for raping a girl which was never described. It wasn't a fantasy about raping, and it had moral. Night and day difference, and I doubt a jury would find such a tale indicative of anything other than that the author finds rape reprehensible. There was another story, speculated by a newspaper in Italy to have been written by Knox, in which a man watches a female friend overdose. Again, night and day.

 

[Malkmus]

It's like the puzzle pieces for defence of guilty client:

"As her lawyer spoke, Liard shifted her body and faced the jury with a sad expression on her face while her male accomplice looked dazed and concerned, staring straight ahead.

Grill said his client was probably guided by intense anxiety, fear, alcohol and marijuana.

In his closing remarks to the jury, Liard’s lawyer Daniel Brodsky said there was no eyewitness, confession or forensic evidence suggesting his client, Liard, was guilty of murder or even in LaSota’s bedroom when the killing took place."

Not the Dazed, Confused and Drugged story again! ... with the usual "I don't remembers" and lies (ref: Laird, Knox)

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/a...n-to-jury-in-defence-lawyer-s-closing-remarks

She wasn't in the bedroom, they say, but after luring the child she gave her to an older man; her boyfriend ... and the child was stabbed 37 times and beaten, but the accused woman did nothing because she and her couple accomplice claim that she didn't enter the bedroom? Why didn't she do anything? Is she completely stupid that when a child is being murdered in the bedroom, and she is in the hallway outside the bedroom, she cannot make the right choice? She was trying to make him like her and she was willing to do anything ... and now she needs to be put away for a long time for participating in that brutal murder "for kicks".

Would Rafferty ever have the guts to tell Victoria's mother that her daughter was murdered "for kicks"? That's what Rafferty and McClintic were up to that day ... getting off on hurting someone.

Just saw after my post that you posted about Liard too!

I don't understand how she got off completely. She should be locked up.

 

[Malkmus]

Wasn't the first use of animation to dipict or recreate the crime scenario in California? I read something about that recently, but don't remember the details ... will post if I come across it again. I know that computer animated crime reconstructions have been done for years ... it's also not surprising that it is very expensive.

I believe the audit is to investigate whether the cost was justified, and whether it was necessary in the first place. From what I've seen, these animations are generally reserved for reconstruction of complex crime scenes such as traffic accidents, ballistic trajectories, or at least based on crime scenes where this a clearer path of forensic evidence to follow. This video seems to be more from the imagination than actual forensic evidence, and even Mignini is quoted as saying Amanda could have orchestrated the murder from outside the bedroom.

 

[Malkmus]

Interesting foot print analysis:

Perugia Murder File

I think the problem in matching the bath mat print to Sollecito is and always will be the lack of two defining features that separate his print from the majority of others. His mushroom-shaped big toe, and his hammer (second) toe - which is not able to leave a print and did. If either of these were present it would be a lot harder to argue agauinst it being his. And it's important to note that Massei never "matched" it to Raf, just said it's "compatible with".

 

[otto]

I believe the audit is to investigate whether the cost was justified, and whether it was necessary in the first place. From what I've seen, these animations are generally reserved for reconstruction of complex crime scenes such as traffic accidents, ballistic trajectories, or at least based on crime scenes where this a clearer path of forensic evidence to follow. This video seems to be more from the imagination than actual forensic evidence, and even Mignini is quoted as saying Amanda could have orchestrated the murder from outside the bedroom.

Animations are used for all types of re-enactments, including murder. There is debate surrounding the use of re-enactments during trial, not specifically with animated re-enactments. The exact same re-enactment used in the murder of Meredith Kercher could have been done with real people, as was the case with Robyn Gardner (who went missing in Aruba). There is nothing odd, unusual, special, or inappropriate with the use of an animated crime re-enactment during trial. All re-enactments are based on speculation ... a theory of how the crime occurred. It seems to me that if someone wants to attack the use of re-enactments during trial ... that I understand ... but attacking re-enactments only if they are computer generated ... that doesn't make sense.

 

[otto]

I think the problem in matching the bath mat print to Sollecito is and always will be the lack of two defining features that separate his print from the majority of others. His mushroom-shaped big toe, and his hammer (second) toe - which is not able to leave a print and did. If either of these were present it would be a lot harder to argue agauinst it being his. And it's important to note that Massei never "matched" it to Raf, just said it's "compatible with".

Can we at least say that there's no way that the print appears to resemble Rudy's print, even with the naked eye? That much seems abundantly clear to me ... but is it abundantly clear to those that want to believe Guede acted alone?

 

[otto]

I think in the case of Michelle Liard, the Canadian acquitted of murder, who wrote a story about murdering a girl with her boyfriend, that is strong character evidence. It was a fantasy in which she used her name and her boyfriend's to describe the thrill of murdering a girl. It's beyond me how she walked away scott free given the other evidence.
However, with Amanda Knox, she did not write a story about murdering a girl. She wrote a story about a young man reprimanding his younger brother for raping a girl which was never described. It wasn't a fantasy about raping, and it had moral. Night and day difference, and I doubt a jury would find such a tale indicative of anything other than that the author finds rape reprehensible. There was another story, speculated by a newspaper in Italy to have been written by Knox, in which a man watches a female friend overdose. Again, night and day.

Knox wrote a story about a drugged filled night where a young woman was murdered by two people. That was her submission for the creative writing contest in prison. I think that of about 11 submissions, she got third place. It was penned by Marie Pace (something like that ... middle name-peace) ... I think that today, even Knox would admit that she wrote that short story.

 

[Malkmus]

Animations are used for all types of re-enactments, including murder. There is debate surrounding the use of re-enactments during trial, not specifically with animated re-enactments. The exact same re-enactment used in the murder of Meredith Kercher could have been done with real people, as was the case with Robyn Gardner (who went missing in Aruba). There is nothing odd, unusual, special, or inappropriate with the use of an animated crime re-enactment during trial. All re-enactments are based on speculation ... a theory of how the crime occurred. It seems to me that if someone wants to attack the use of re-enactments during trial ... that I understand ... but attacking re-enactments only if they are computer generated ... that doesn't make sense.

Otto, I'm not sure what your point is other than you disagree with the audit for the reenactment. The authorities in Perugia seem to think that there is reason to investigate the cost and necessity behind it. We'll have to wait to see what their decision is. That's about all there is to it.

"attacking re-enactments only if they are computer generated ... that doesn't make sense."

None of the articles I've read use this as a reason for the investigation, so not sure where you get this notion from.

 

[Malkmus]

Can we at least say that there's no way that the print appears to resemble Rudy's print, even with the naked eye? That much seems abundantly clear to me ... but is it abundantly clear to those that want to believe Guede acted alone?

A poll taken at JREF shows that most people find it inconclusive, certainly not a match for either suspects:

Footprint identification test - JREF Forum

Your accusation that only people who have a vested interest in AK and RS being innocent find the print more similar to Rudy's is proven wrong by the poll. There are many people who have no interest in the case who found the print more similar to Rudy, and not at all to Raf. Either way it doesn't matter. The print was simply too diluted to be used against anyone. It would be nice if you could accept that people like me come to such conclusions about the evidence from an honest standpoint. I hope this poll indicates that to you.

 

[Malkmus]

Knox wrote a story about a drugged filled night where a young woman was murdered by two people. That was her submission for the creative writing contest in prison. I think that of about 11 submissions, she got third place. It was penned by Marie Pace (something like that ... middle name-peace) ... I think that today, even Knox would admit that she wrote that short story.

Otto, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt by assuming you simply haven't read the story. There is no murder in it. All that's apparent from it is that it's about a guy who can't save a girl from overdosing at a party. If you disagree, please highlight which part you think describes two people murdering a girl. Here it is:

Maybe this letter is just an excuse. I'm not sure why I'm writing it. Perhaps because it is a day when, if all this chaos never happened, we would be together. Perhaps we exchanged a glance and then a thought. Perhaps we spoke of many things that happened somewhere and somehow. Perhaps, today, I could have said: ‘I know you and I love you.’ Maybe they’d happened so many things that were happening once again, apparently. The appearances revealed all our hope. I can talk to you of any day, any time. You remember that night, suddenly hot in November? We were lying down on my porch. We sat face to face and you had one leg between mine. You had those purple gloves, without fingers, and hair loose. How beautiful you were! Really, you were incredible, but I do not remember what we were talking about. At one point a car came behind me with the headlights turned on which light illuminated your blond hair. You were like the moon in a blue gloomy landscape. Then the car passed, and darkness lay upon us. It was a long distance like our contact not yet complete. I felt destroyed! Now I'm here with this pink and fragrant sheet (of paper) after a long day, thinking instead about what you would like to do today. Receiving this letter of mine, no, for sure. Yet, in reality, I have not given up despite the fact that there is no crime worse than giving up hope that does not know surrender. My madness doesn’t know surrender. Apart from anything else, I love you. If I had another chance I would have helped you and would have been much closer to you. I have your image burned in my eyes. I have my life ahead and I cannot forget it. I'm always looking back. I turned and you were gone. Swam in the waves of warm bodies and wet with sweat and drink. I had to navigate to reach the wall with arms raised like a mast. I walked passing over the jackets, bags and in a corner there was a guy passed out. You were not in the kitchen, where a mountain of beer cans was on the floor. I was opening a window to get some air when I saw from the door smoke coming out. I approached, I knocked, I called you, I held the door handle and then when no one answered me, I opened the door. The smoke enveloped me and I thought of drowning in that burnt stink then I saw you lying on the ground, without a jacket and without shirt. At that moment I did not understand anything and while I was out of the house I remembered that with you there were other people who smoked, that were piercing. I didn’t understand, you must believe me. I did not understand until I reach my porch and just then I realized that you were unconscious. When I returned they had already taken you to the hospital but you have to know that I didn’t want to abandon you, but at that moment I didn’t understand anything any more. The sun is giving me a wink and I must say goodbye. I only hope that you are well and that you are still the one I knew when the headlights of the car they brighten your blonde hair. I Imagine a Valentine's Day would be very nice to spend it with you, my love. Forgive me

http://perugiamurderfile.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=180&p=25365&hilit=marie+pace+translation#p25365

 

[otto]

Knox's writings never made sense to me simply because I'm not famliar with the sentence structure that she uses ... but I have read it. The short story that she wrote in prison did describe a drug fuelled vision where a young woman died. The short story was more than one paragraph.

Regarding the footprint, I do not see any similarity between the print and Guede's print ... that's my only question regarding the print.

Regarding the re-enactment, there has been a lot of criticism over the use of a computer generated re-enactment. Why? It's a re-enactment ... something that is commonly used all over the world.

 

[Malkmus]

Knox's writings never made sense to me simply because I'm not famliar with the sentence structure that she uses ... but I have read it. The short story that she wrote in prison did describe a drug fuelled vision where a young woman died. The short story was more than one paragraph.

Here are the facts regarding the story:

Fact 1: That is the entire text of the story. You won't find a longer version of it.
Fact 2: The contest regulations stated the authors remain anonymous, hence it being purely speculation that it was written by Knox.
Fact 3: The story contains no references to murder. It only alludes to what may be an overdose at a party.

Regarding the footprint, I do not see any similarity between the print and Guede's print ... that's my only question regarding the print.

I only slightly disagree with your opinion, as personally I see the basic shapes being the same as Rudy's and completely different from Sollecito's. That doesn't mean I think it's a match for Rudy.

Regarding the re-enactment, there has been a lot of criticism over the use of a computer generated re-enactment. Why? It's a re-enactment ... something that is commonly used all over the world.

Government overspending is a common problem worldwide. Perhaps the officials in Perugia feel the city can't afford such a thing. It was extremely expensive.