Amanda Knox New Motivation Report RE: Meredith Kercher Murder #1 *new trial ordered*

[MichaelSmith]

The only evidence you have is that Raffaele had washed dishes and noted the leaky pipe when his father called. That is consistent with, but does not demand that they have dinner earlier. Raffaele might have been cleaning dishes as a prelude starting dinner. The rest of your comment simply does not make any sense. If my alibi is that I was home all evening, it matters not a bit whether I ate at 8, smoked a joint at 9, listened to a CD at 10, and made love at 11, or listened to a CD at 8, made love at 9, smoked a joint at 10, and ate at 11 (or any other order). You have not even tried to argue against this point, let alone argued against it successfully.

It is surprising that people still believe that Meredith was murdered around midnight. 1. Hellmann (correctly, in my view) interpreted the activity on Meredith's cell phone to indicate that the cell phones were in the killer's hand no later than a little after 10. 2. Meredith's last meal happened around 6, and yet her duodenum was empty. That is extremely unlikely when a normal adult consumes a small meal. Both arguments 1 and 2 would have to be wrong for the TOD to be midnight. If the odds of the first argument being wrong are 2% and the odds of the second statement being wrong are 1%, then the odds of both being wrong would be 0.02%.

Who better to know the time of death than the killer himself. Rudy Guede said by 9.30 which fits with the science.

 

[otto]

Who better to know the time of death than the killer himself. Rudy Guede said by 9.30 which fits with the science.

There is no science that determines the time of death at 9:30 PM.

 

[dog.gone.cute]

I'm pretty sure that if you take the time to research it, you'll discover that they ate their fish dinner prior to washing the dinner dishes ... then the leak, then the phone call at about 8:30. All this is relevant in terms of demonstrating that one of the reasons Knox was in hot water with police is because she lied about the time that they ate dinner. That point is also noted in the reports ... that Knox changed the time of dinner ... giving conflicting times.

Meredith was murdered prior to her phone being tossed, which was shortly after midnight. Therefore, she was murdered prior to midnight. Whether that happened at 9:30 or midnight makes no difference in terms of the false alibi that Knox provided when she stated that she was eating dinner at Sollecito's apartment at 11 PM.

:seeya:

RBBM: Just adding to your post about "the leak" :

This is just another one of the MANY inconsistencies in Amanda's statements ...

In Amanda's OWN words in her e-mail, she stated the following:

i also needed to grab a mop because after dinner raffael had spilled a lot of water on the floor of his kitchen by accident and didnt have a mop to clean it up.


BBM: So Rafaelle tells his father during this 8:30 pm telephone call that he had a leak from a broken pipe in the kitchen -- yet Amanda states that Rafaelle spilt water on the floor by accident ...

:waitasec: So, which is correct ?

Again, this is more conflicting statements by Amanda and Raf ...

 

[Chris_Halkides]

I'm pretty sure that if you take the time to research it, you'll discover that they ate their fish dinner prior to washing the dinner dishes ... then the leak, then the phone call at about 8:30. All this is relevant in terms of demonstrating that one of the reasons Knox was in hot water with police is because she lied about the time that they ate dinner. That point is also noted in the reports ... that Knox changed the time of dinner ... giving conflicting times.

Meredith was murdered prior to her phone being tossed, which was shortly after midnight. Therefore, she was murdered prior to midnight. Whether that happened at 9:30 or midnight makes no difference in terms of the false alibi that Knox provided when she stated that she was eating dinner at Sollecito's apartment at 11 PM.

I am not sure where the figure of 11 PM comes from (possibly the first memoriale). BTW, Amanda did not wear a watch. Massei, page 69 (summarizing Amanda's trial testimony): "They ate fish and salad. Then, while Raffaele was washing the dishes, from the sink, a leak was noticed: ‚water was leaking below and he looked at it; he turned off the water and then looked below the sink, and this pipe had become loose, so the water that was coming from the faucet was leaking out.‛ (page 77). It would have been around 21:30-22:00 pm." It stands to reason that each time the sink was used, it would leak. I think that Raffaele used it when his father called, and he used it again after dinner.

 

[otto]

:seeya:

RBBM: Just adding to your post about "the leak" :

This is just another one of the MANY inconsistencies in Amanda's statements ...

In Amanda's OWN words in her e-mail, she stated the following:

i also needed to grab a mop because after dinner raffael had spilled a lot of water on the floor of his kitchen by accident and didnt have a mop to clean it up.


BBM: So Rafaelle tells his father during this 8:30 pm telephone call that he had a leak from a broken pipe in the kitchen -- yet Amanda states that Rafaelle spilt water on the floor by accident ...

:waitasec: So, which is correct ?

Again, this is more conflicting statements by Amanda and Raf ...

Whichever it was ... it gave Knox an excuse to further delay contacting anyone about the situation at the cottage (where Meredith lay in her room). She and Sollecito had lunch and mopped the floor (which apparently was still covered with water 16 hours later) before alerting anyone to the break in.

 

[otto]

I am not sure where the figure of 11 PM comes from (possibly the first memoriale). BTW, Amanda did not wear a watch. Massei, page 69 (summarizing Amanda's trial testimony): "They ate fish and salad. Then, while Raffaele was washing the dishes, from the sink, a leak was noticed: ‚water was leaking below and he looked at it; he turned off the water and then looked below the sink, and this pipe had become loose, so the water that was coming from the faucet was leaking out.‛ (page 77). It would have been around 21:30-22:00 pm." It stands to reason that each time the sink was used, it would leak. I think that Raffaele used it when his father called, and he used it again after dinner.

I see ... she didn't wear a watch, but she was always on time for work and classes ... so clearly she didn't need a watch.

Besides, my point was that any normal university student can figure out that if work was cancelled (she knew the time that she was going to work) and then she ate dinner ... then she doesn't need a watch to know that she didn't eat 3 hours later.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

stated the following[/B]
Again, this is more conflicting statements by Amanda and Raf ...

I am going to go out on a limb here and suggest that the pipes leaked each time someone put water down the sink, and that this happened more than once on the evening of 1 November. One can spend time worrying about the leaky pipes, or one can spend time studying how the human digestive system works. The latter is more helpful in understanding this case: The idea that Meredith would still have moved no food into her duodenum six hours after eating a smallish meal is one of the most absurd ideas that has arisen from this case, and that is going a piece. MOO.
EDT
I see no contradiction between saying that Raffaele spilled water and saying that the water came from a broken pipe. If Raffaele was running the faucet (tap) when the leak occurred, the two statements are functionally equivalent. Trying to turn this incident into a gotcha moment worthy of the climax of an episode of "Murder, She Wrote" is wrongheaded IMO.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

I see ... she didn't wear a watch, but she was always on time for work and classes ... so clearly she didn't need a watch.

Besides, my point was that any normal university student can figure out that if work was cancelled (she knew the time that she was going to work) and then she ate dinner ... then she doesn't need a watch to know that she didn't eat 3 hours later.

She may have used her cell phone as her watch. When she shut it off, then she would have a considerably reduced ability to know the correct time. Her testimony puts dinner earlier that 11, as a previous post discusses.

 

[otto]

One almost gets the impression we're talking about a helpless child ...

she didn't have a watch --> she can't be expected to remember that she ate dinner directly after she was supposed to work,
she was tired --> she is not responsible for what she says,
she was in a foreign country --> she is incapable of going to a hotel

... so many excuses ... why???

 

[otto]

She may have used her cell phone as her watch. When she shut it off, then she would have a considerably reduced ability to know the correct time. Her testimony puts dinner earlier that 11, as a previous post discusses.

Knox provided conflicting times regarding when she ate dinner ... that is specifically addressed in the judge's reports. The report I linked upthread discusses those conflicting times.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Knox provided conflicting times regarding when she ate dinner ... that is specifically addressed in the judge's reports. The report I linked upthread discusses those conflicting times.

I quoted from the Massei report. Nothing with respect to the time at which one ate dinner, versus read a book, versus made love is significant with respect to their alibi. There is no reason for them to have lied about the relative order in which they did A, B, or C when their claim is that they were home the whole evening.

 

[otto]

I quoted from the Massei report. Nothing with respect to the time at which one ate dinner, versus read a book, versus made love is significant with respect to their alibi. There is no reason for them to have lied about the relative order in which they did A, B, or C when their claim is that they were home the whole evening.

Knox did provide conflicting times regarding the time of dinner. The initial times she provided were much later than the true time. It's quite true that an innocent person has no reason the fib about the time of dinner. The fact that Knox fibbed a couple of times about the time of dinner does raise big questions ... investigators were probably also wondering why an innocent person would fib about something like that.

Given that Meredith was dead by midnight, fibbing about the dinner time takes on new meaning. Knox tried to convince investigators that she was eating dinner at Sollecitos during the hours when Meredith could have been murdered ... instead, she has no alibi. The dinner alibi was a lie.

 

[MichaelSmith]

Knox did provide conflicting times regarding the time of dinner. The initial times she provided were much later than the true time. It's quite true that an innocent person has no reason the fib about the time of dinner. The fact that Knox fibbed a couple of times about the time of dinner does raise big questions ... investigators were probably also wondering why an innocent person would fib about something like that.

Given that Meredith was dead by midnight, fibbing about the dinner time takes on new meaning. Knox tried to convince investigators that she was eating dinner at Sollecitos during the hours when Meredith could have been murdered ... instead, she has no alibi. The dinner alibi was a lie.

Meredith was dead by 9.30 according to the killer Rudy Guede.

 

[otto]

Meredith was dead by 9.30 according to the killer Rudy Guede.

According to Guede, he didn't kill Meredith ... he was merely there.

If you believe Guede and his 9:30 PM time, then you must also believe that he is not guilty of murder ... wrong place, wrong time.

If you don't believe Guede, and conclude that he is guilty of participating in the murder, then why believe anything else he has to say?

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Meredith was dead by 9.30 according to the killer Rudy Guede.

One can play around with the time she and her English friends ate, even move it to 7:45 PM (that is when Sophie thought that they ate dessert, IIRC). Even this late time does not make it more likely that she was dead at midnight than that she was dead a little while after 9 PM. The empty duodenum coupled with information about when and how much she ate makes it far more likely that she was killed between 9 and 10 than at later times. The cell phone evidence also favors an early TOD, as Hellmann discusses.

 

[MichaelSmith]

According to Guede, he didn't kill Meredith ... he was merely there.

If you believe Guede and his 9:30 PM time, then you must also believe that he is not guilty of murder ... wrong place, wrong time.

If you don't believe Guede, and conclude that he is guilty of participating in the murder, then why believe anything else he has to say?

Otto, when Rudy was caught, never in a million years could he have imagined Amanda and Raffaele would still be held. He came up with his lame some other dude did it excuse that included as much truth as he could based on what he'd read in the media upto that point.

Amanda and Raffaele in the Mignini conspiracy theory are suppose to have staged the crime scene to look like he did it but instead of blaming them, Rudy blames some Italian guy he couldn't see properly.

So, yes I do believe Rudy in his diary when it comes to the car parked outside the cottage at 8pm, I do believe Rudy about the scream and it was all over by approx 9.30pm.

I don't believe Rudy's claim to have been on the toilet when she was killed. He was on the toilet when Meredith walked in the door.

 

[otto]

One can play around with the time she and her English friends ate, even move it to 7:45 PM (that is when Sophie thought that they ate dessert, IIRC). Even this late time does not make it more likely that she was dead at midnight than that she was dead a little while after 9 PM. The empty duodenum coupled with information about when and how much she ate makes it far more likely that she was killed between 9 and 10 than at later times. The cell phone evidence also favors an early TOD, as Hellmann discusses.

Stomach contents is widely known as extremely unreliable in terms of determining time of death.

There is no cell phone evidence other than the fact that her father called after midnight, and the phone had already been tossed in the garden down the road. Nothing further can be determined based on the calls made to her mother or her bank.

 

[otto]

Otto, when Rudy was caught, never in a million years could he have imagined Amanda and Raffaele would still be held. He came up with his lame some other dude did it excuse that included as much truth as he could based on what he'd read in the media upto that point.

Amanda and Raffaele in the Mignini conspiracy theory are suppose to have staged the crime scene to look like he did it but instead of blaming them, Rudy blames some Italian guy he couldn't see properly.

So, yes I do believe Rudy in his diary when it comes to the car parked outside the cottage at 8pm, I do believe Rudy about the scream and it was all over by approx 9.30pm.

I don't believe Rudy's claim to have been on the toilet when she was killed. He was on the toilet when Meredith walked in the door.

We can pick and choose which information to accept as truth, but I don't see the point. Guede, Knox and Sollecito are known liars ... so I discredit everything that they say, not just that which doesn't suit my preferred theory.

 

[MichaelSmith]

We can pick and choose which information to accept as truth, but I don't see the point. Guede, Knox and Sollecito are known liars ... so I discredit everything that they say, not just that which doesn't suit my preferred theory.

I do see the point. Let me explain.

Rudy said Amanda and Raffaele weren't there. He said he'd never met Raffaele. That's pretty significant if they'd just committed a murder together and the two other perps had tried to pin it on him. There's no plausible reason for Rudy to protect his co-conspirators and blame someone else entirely unless he knew they had nothing to do with it and would be released.

You can see him on the CCTV camera heading to the cottage as early as 8pm and there's a car parked outside. Sure enough in his diary, he mentions the parked car. What do you think Rudy was doing there around 8pm?

 

[otto]

I do see the point. Let me explain.

Rudy said Amanda and Raffaele weren't there. He said he'd never met Raffaele. That's pretty significant if they'd just committed a murder together and the two other perps had tried to pin it on him. There's no plausible reason for Rudy to protect his co-conspirators and blame someone else entirely unless he knew they had nothing to do with it and would be released.

You can see him on the CCTV camera heading to the cottage as early as 8pm and there's a car parked outside. Sure enough in his diary, he mentions the parked car. What do you think Rudy was doing there around 8pm?

If we are to believe what Rudy Guede has to say, then I suppose we should also believe that he did not murder Meredith ... I suppose that this means that no one murdered her.