Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL*#11

[Katody]

Like 1 little splash, evidence IMO there should've been more. Unless we assume RG was very meticulous and careful while washing up in the bathroom. Much more careful then he was in the murder room and while leaving.

You won't change my mind that the bidet,sink,toilet, and over all bathroom are fairly clean. I do not think its reasonable that RG used every fixture in the bathroom.

Yes

OK, so they cleaned up most of the splashes, leaving one or two and some droplets on every fixture.
You think Amanda left her own blood on purpose? What was the purpose of it?

 

[Amber29]

OK, so they cleaned up most of the splashes, leaving one or two and some droplets on every fixture.
You think Amanda left her own blood on purpose? What was the purpose of it?

They are not perfect, these are not professionals we are discussing. I doubt Amanda knew if any of the blood was hers but she herself said there was no blood there the day before when she left. So when do you suppose she left it and what was it from in your opinion?

Please give me your scenario of RG using every fixture and why.
How did he avoid getting a mess on the floor, being careful only to step on the mat?

How did he dry his pants enough to keep them from dripping bloody water?
How did he get blood on the bottom part of his pants during the attack and not on his shoes?
Where's the dripping as he moves from fixture to fixture? Does he bathmat boogie to avoid the tile?

 

[SMK]

OK, so they cleaned up most of the splashes, leaving one or two and some droplets on every fixture.
You think Amanda left her own blood on purpose? What was the purpose of it?

I know this is not addressed to me-

But my own explanation would be:

• Either accident (not being aware of things left, from exhausting, poor lighting, etc.)
• or being interrupted by PP (job left sloppily done)
• or deliberately leaving some signs to show Filomena (not wanting to tell her of the broken window before she comes, as this might circumvent her visit and cause her to call 112)
• not being aware that one's own blood is in fact there

 

[Katody]

They are not perfect, these are not professionals we are discussing. I doubt Amanda knew if any of the blood was hers

The question is, did they leave some splashes on purpose and cleaned up the rest of them? The fixtures were much more bloody initially, do you agree? They cleaned the bidet, the sink etc, but left some small traces everywhere on purpose, is this what you mean?

Do you mean she was not aware she was bleeding? The bleeding started and stopped without her or Raffaele noticing? Where was the wound? The one on her neck?

 

[Katody]

Please give me your scenario of RG using every fixture and why.

He used the sink and the shower. The droplets on the toilet and bidet are incidental.

How did he avoid getting a mess on the floor, being careful only to step on the mat?

He wasn't making any mess on the floor. His foot got watered blood on it when he rinsed his pants. He stepped out onto the bathmat, dried himself with towels and put his shoes back on. Even if some drops of the watered down blood fell on the floor they were never detected.

How did he dry his pants enough to keep them from dripping bloody water?

With a towel.

How did he get blood on the bottom part of his pants during the attack and not on his shoes?

Maybe there was some on his shoes. But not on the soles.

Where's the dripping as he moves from fixture to fixture? Does he bathmat boogie to avoid the tile?

There is some on the side of the toilet and on the bidet. That's about it. He wasn't squirting blood like his own arteries were cut after all.

 

[Monzoo]

With regard to the body, Micheli had theorized that as the soaked bra strap showed Meredith had lain on her side for quite some time, the body must have been moved some time after death.

As far as the simulation of burglary:
First postal police officer Batisstelli took immediate note of Filomena's room uttering "staged".
Then Mignini himself, when he arrived, noted it looked staged, and theorized that perhaps one of the boys downstairs was an accomplice to murder: Had entered via the front door, and then staged the window to make it look like an unknown. (of course, in an odd way , Rudy was infact "one of the boys downstairs").

They say now that they thought this immediately. Yet they didn't bother to actually document the signs which caused them to think so.

 

[SMK]

They say now that they thought this immediately. Yet they didn't bother to actually document the signs which caused them to think so.

That was poor form on their part, to skip so essential a task, withal.

 

[Amber29]

He used the sink and the shower. The droplets on the toilet and bidet are incidental.

He wasn't making any mess on the floor. His foot got watered blood on it when he rinsed his pants. He stepped out onto the bathmat, dried himself with towels and put his shoes back on. Even if some drops of the watered down blood fell on the floor they were never detected.


With a towel.



Maybe there was some on his shoes. But not on the soles.


There is some on the side of the toilet and on the bidet. That's about it. He wasn't squirting blood like his own arteries were cut after all.

So you don't think the bidet was used to rinse? To me diluted blood and water are left around the drain, meaning some one rinsed blood there and it pooled around the drain and wasn't completely rinsed away.
Doesn't appear to be incidental drop there but ok I respect your opinion.

So I guess he cleaned the shower after washing all the blood off not leaving bloody splashes, was careful and mindful of only getting bloody water on the mat.

I don't know how RG managed to only leave a drop here and there. Lucky him he managed to wash up his hands with out leaving any DNA mixed with those drops. He must of left all his loose DNA in Meredith's room.

 

[MichaelSmith]

Katody I'm done talking about the footprints, I've said all I can say, I've answered all your questions. You seem to want to go in circles.

You have RG arriving before Meredith around 8:30 per his words. Then it was said RG attacked Meredith shortly after she arrived which was just about 9pm, lets say 9:05. Maybe 15mins for the attack at the most. So from 9:20 on he's hanging out in the cottage doing who knows what for at least 40-55mins. Considering at 10:13 Meredith's phones were still in the vicinity of the cottage, they certainly had not been disposed of at Lana's yet.

That is a long time

I think Rudy arrived the first time around 7.51pm

http://www.oggi.it/video/notizie/2012/03/05/caso-di-perugia-il-video-mai-visto-di-rudy-guede/

And Meredith got home at 9.01pm while the lovebirds were watching Ameile.

Meredith Kercher's arrival home at 9:01 p.m. Nov 1, 2007 - YouTube

 

[MichaelSmith]

Amanda’s Unending Punishment

http://mindhuntersinc.com/amandas-unending-punishment/

 

[aa9511]

If RG, a known burglar, had a flashlight with him why would he need to turn on any lights? How many times has it been known that a person breaks into a house at night and turns the lights on in a room? How many times does a person not only turn a light on in a room but leave the light on in a room when they leave the room?

The larger bathroom is not easily seen from the living room/kitchen area. There are two doors for that bathroom. One door where the outer sink and washer/dryer are and then another door where the toilet, bidet, tub/shower are. How is it known that both or even one of those doors was open when RG was in the bathroom?

Do we know that Filomena's bedroom door was open when Meredith came home? Was it pulled closed some or even shut all the way by RG?

It is possible and probable that RG chocked Meredith first until she was unconscious and then stabbed her. I will include a video that has an expert stating how this is possible and in his opinion how it occured.

Since RG was a burglar, then one would conclude that the crime was originally to steal money or something that would be easy for him alone to carry out of the cottage. However once Meredith came home, someone that could ID him, it then led to her murder.

MOO

ETA: I can't get the video to upload correctly however the video can be seen on this link under "An expert for the defense demonstrates that Meredith was murdered by a single attacker. This video include an interview with Madison Paxton"
http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/videos.html

"If RG, a known burglar, had a flashlight with him why would he need to turn on any lights?"
IMO, a burglar would try to get in and out as fast as possible. Do burglars usually stop and take a #2 in the toilet of the house they are robbing? So my point was that if he was seemingly at-ease enough to take a #2, then why would he be worried about a couple of lights on.

Why would he close Filomena's door? If we was so careful to turn off the light and close the door behind him, why did he then go and take a #2 instead of hurrying on with the job so he could get out without getting caught by anyone?

Thanks for the link, I will check it.

 

[aa9511]

Phone activity, blood traces and number of stab wounds is.

Why don't you tell that to Amanda? Last time I heard, she still does not know the phone records in her case, even though the prosecutor brought them up with her on the stand.

I suppose it is ok to tell me, or suggest, that I memorize all the phone records, but not for Amanda to have basic knowledge of them in her own case, such that she "misunderstands" so many things about the calls.

<modsnip>

 

[Amber29]

Why don't you tell that to Amanda? Last time I heard, she still does not know the phone records in her case, even though the prosecutor brought them up with her on the stand.

I suppose it is ok to tell me, or suggest, that I memorize all the phone records, but not for Amanda to have basic knowledge of them in her own case, such that she "misunderstands" so many things about the calls.

<modsnip>

Very good point! She even made up a conversation with her mom that couldnt have taken place for her book because she is still unaware of her phone records and was "mislead" by the prosecutor. Someone should definitely tell AK to brush up on her basic evidence knowledge.

 

[MichaelSmith]

"If RG, a known burglar, had a flashlight with him why would he need to turn on any lights?"
IMO, a burglar would try to get in and out as fast as possible. Do burglars usually stop and take a #2 in the toilet of the house they are robbing? So my point was that if he was seemingly at-ease enough to take a #2, then why would he be worried about a couple of lights on.

Why would he close Filomena's door? If we was so careful to turn off the light and close the door behind him, why did he then go and take a #2 instead of hurrying on with the job so he could get out without getting caught by anyone?

Thanks for the link, I will check it.

Apparently some do. A few months I posted a link to a book about burglars using the toilets of the place they're robbing. I'll try and find that link.

A quick google search shows plenty of similar cases where it happens.

Used toilet paper, feces, leads to burglary arrest

http://kfor.com/2013/10/03/used-toilet-paper-feces-leads-to-burglar-arrest/

Burglars take showers, use toilet

http://www.journalgazette.net/article/20100930/NEWS13/100939943/1066/NEWS03

Cops Find Burglary Suspect On Toilet

http://www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/local/Cops-Find-Burglary-Suspect-On-Toilet-185460342.html

 

[MichaelSmith]

This is an interesting old article from November 7, 2007.

It says the interrogations on the famous night were done by Mignini.
Patrick already sensed things were going against him before his arrest, and so removed his name tag from his citofono, which was described as a clumsy act.
The investigators already had in their hands at this point, all the logs of the calls of all 3 of them, as well as the two used by Meredith.
It suggests the DNA, finger prints and foot prints, were already in at this point, before the interrogation.
Mignini denied Patrick from seeing his newly appointed lawyers (including Pacelli), until the GIP confirmed.
The motive was probably the 3 wanting to have sex with Meredith who refused, who was "morally incorruptable".
"Meredith tried to say no to their first advances, perhaps with a smile seeing as that girl was her friend, she tried to resist the cravings of her murderer, to the point that she rebelled, in vain", according to Arturo De Felice, the "questore" (official of the court?).
Minister Giuliano Amato congratulated Perugia for their fine work.
De Felice goes on "I have to compliment our men and our women (the interpreters) that in 4 days and 4 nights, with professionalism and integrity, have resolved the case. In these days, we have felt the weight, the pressure of the people of the city, and of the mass media. Everybody wanted an immediate and certain response. It seems to me we have responded, almost immediately".
Meredith's moral innocence is stressed several times.
Lots of quotes about what the British papers report.
Already mention at this point that Meredith was stabbed by more than one person.
Some discussion on the last page about how this murder occurred entirely within the world of the Perugia University, and how that world has radically changed over the years to come to this point. (Interesting now to re-think that hypothesis knowing that it was only Guede).

Kercher says "I have serious difficulty in believing the results of the autopsy, which imply Meredith had sex with her murderer before dying".

 

[aa9511]

Crini still believes so. :coffeews:

LOL! I love the coffee-sipping emoticon!

 

[Amber29]

This is an interesting old article from November 7, 2007.

It says the interrogations on the famous night were done by Mignini.
Patrick already sensed things were going against him before his arrest, and so removed his name tag from his citofono, which was described as a clumsy act.
The investigators already had in their hands at this point, all the logs of the calls of all 3 of them, as well as the two used by Meredith.
It suggests the DNA, finger prints and foot prints, were already in at this point, before the interrogation.
Mignini denied Patrick from seeing his newly appointed lawyers (including Pacelli), until the GIP confirmed.
The motive was probably the 3 wanting to have sex with Meredith who refused, who was "morally incorruptable".
"Meredith tried to say no to their first advances, perhaps with a smile seeing as that girl was her friend, she tried to resist the cravings of her murderer, to the point that she rebelled, in vain", according to Arturo De Felice, the "questore" (official of the court?).
Minister Giuliano Amato congratulated Perugia for their fine work.
De Felice goes on "I have to compliment our men and our women (the interpreters) that in 4 days and 4 nights, with professionalism and integrity, have resolved the case. In these days, we have felt the weight, the pressure of the people of the city, and of the mass media. Everybody wanted an immediate and certain response. It seems to me we have responded, almost immediately".
Meredith's moral innocence is stressed several times.
Lots of quotes about what the British papers report.
Already mention at this point that Meredith was stabbed by more than one person.
Some discussion on the last page about how this murder occurred entirely within the world of the Perugia University, and how that world has radically changed over the years to come to this point. (Interesting now to re-think that hypothesis knowing that it was only Guede).

Kercher says "I have serious difficulty in believing the results of the autopsy, which imply Meredith had sex with her murderer before dying".

Are there sources for this article, IMO reporters often run with stories wanting to be first with "breaking news" using unnamed sources. All it takes is little tid bits and its ran with.

 

[aa9511]

So you don't think the bidet was used to rinse? To me diluted blood and water are left around the drain, meaning some one rinsed blood there and it pooled around the drain and wasn't completely rinsed away.
Doesn't appear to be incidental drop there but ok I respect your opinion.

So I guess he cleaned the shower after washing all the blood off not leaving bloody splashes, was careful and mindful of only getting bloody water on the mat.

I don't know how RG managed to only leave a drop here and there. Lucky him he managed to wash up his hands with out leaving any DNA mixed with those drops. He must of left all his loose DNA in Meredith's room.

And what about the cut from his finger? His previous break-in's are constantly being brought up, but I find it interesting how the cut on his finger is very rarely brought up on here, as if it's not relevant to this case because it was not determined for certain where he got it from.

But we can deduce that he got it from the murder. From the hand slipping on the handle.

So he would have to do all that Katody discussed in the bathroom, and on top of that either have his finger wrapped by something to prevent it dripping blood, or he somehow cleaned up those drips after he used the bathroom.

 

[redheadedgal]

So this friend, are you saying that this maybe-friend had some sort of agenda like all the rest, and that is why she would not come forward and say, "I was with Meredith on this day, I was studying with her, we brought in Amanda's lamp to use?" I would also think that the investigators would have interviewed everyone who had contact with Meredith in the last days. So are you then saying that the investigators "shelved" this piece of information to pursue their agenda and Quest against Amanda and RS?

i said (and implied) no such thing re: both bolds. i was merely brainstorming as someone recently suggested.

imo this is one more example of trying to read too much into things, much like buying underwear and not attending a memorial means amanda is uncaring, selfish and not a true friend.


does anyone believe it's possible meredith grabbed ahold of the lamp to use it as a weapon? did she throw it at guede? or maybe he grabbed it?

I must say I respect this for the fact that it is quite a comprehensive list and you have a good memory!

thanks, but it wasn't all me. i amalgamated info from a few sites and added my own points.

 

[aa9511]

I think Rudy arrived the first time around 7.51pm

http://www.oggi.it/video/notizie/2012/03/05/caso-di-perugia-il-video-mai-visto-di-rudy-guede/

And Meredith got home at 9.01pm while the lovebirds were watching Ameile.

Meredith Kercher's arrival home at 9:01 p.m. Nov 1, 2007 - YouTube

The first link wouldn't play for me.

In the second link, all I could see were shadows.