Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL*#11

[Katody]

Once someone is dead, the body deteriorates and the bowels begin to slough off the lining. Should this also be factored into any speculation about food in the duodenum?

Do you have some literature confirming that claim?

 

[SMK]

Once someone is dead, the body deteriorates and the bowels begin to slough off the lining. Should this also be factored into any speculation about food in the duodenum?

I would assume so, yes.

 

[Amber29]

Of course the fact that there was no gastric emptying means that the further we move the TOD from the pizza meal described by witnesses the less probable such TOD is.

It follows that the most probable TOD is right after Meredith's coming home at 9pm. I.e. the earliest TOD possible.

It is confirmed by Guede who had no reason to lie about it and further confirmed by the phone evidence. It is also fully consistent with the forensic evidence left by Guede.

That's when we consider the evidence globally, as a whole. If we look in isolation we can always undermine this or that as unusual coincidence or very rare case of slow stomach emptying.

Wonder why the ME didn't use this logic and narrow the TOD down by using the stomach contents to determine an accurate time of death the way online posters can. Is he corrupt as well?

 

[Katody]

Wonder why the ME didn't use this logic and narrow the TOD down by using the stomach contents to determine an accurate time of death the way online posters can. Is he corrupt as well?

Dr Lalli's estimation was the same as Chris Halkides did.

From Massei's:

Dr. Lalli specified that death was considered as occurring not more than two to three hours after eating (page 47 of the hearing transcript, and the adjustment described in the footnote on February 13, 2008). He stated that the emptying of the stomach occurs between a minimum of two hours and a maximum of four hours after the meal is consumed (page 62, transcripts) and also confirmed that the duodenum was empty (page 63).

bolding mine.

Also, to determine accurate time of death a global consideration of the evidence is required, not just gastric contents.

 

[otto]

@MichaelSmith

Page 304 of the Massei Report states that the end of the film could be either that the film ended on its own, or someone ended the film.

"... the last interaction of the computer, irrespective of the physical presence of a user, occurred at 9:10"

 

[MichaelSmith]

This seems to be written as a fact, yet there is no link.
I see the MOO now. Okay, thanks. So Crini did not say that Sollecito left his flat at 9:30 and there is nothing to suggest that Meredith was dead at 10 ... it's just a random opinion. Thanks.

Naruto was opened 9.26pm and that's when they left Raffaele's place according to Crini. Pages 66 & 90 in the transcript or you can read the short English translation on Amanda's site about Curatolo and the time of the murder. I've posted it here previously.

 

[MichaelSmith]

@MichaelSmith

Page 304 of the Massei Report states that the end of the film could be either that the film ended on its own, or someone ended the film.

"... the last interaction of the computer, irrespective of the physical presence of a user, occurred at 9:10"

Massei page 302. Closing Ameile @ 9.10pm was a human interaction.

Of the 124 files (or ‚reports&#8219 with ‚last accessed‛ in the referenced time period (from 18:00 on 1 November 2007 to 08:00 on 2 November 2007), only two were ”human interaction‛; the remaining 122 reports were actions carried out automatically by the Mac OS X operating system installed on the Apple MacBook PRO.
In particular, the evidenced human interactions occurred at:
√ 21:10:32 on the 1 November 2007.

 

[otto]

Naruto was opened 9.26pm and that's when they left Raffaele's place. Pages 66 & 90 in the transcript or you can read the short English translation on Amanda's site about Curatolo and the time of the murder. I've posted it here previously.

The Massei Report summarizes what was presented in court, but the conclusions are at the end of the report. The conclusion of the court is that the last interaction of the computer was at 9:10, and that interaction occurred irrespective of the physical presence of the user. It seems to me that the conclusions of the court are what is relevant, although it is interesting to have a summary of what the various parties presented to the court.

Is Knox considered to be a reliable source regarding the evidence that was used to reach a guilty verdict?

 

[otto]

Massei page 302. Closing Ameile @ 9.10pm was a human interaction.

Keep reading. The conclusion of the court is on page 304.

 

[Amber29]

Dr Lalli's estimation was the same as Chris Halkides did.

From Massei's:

Dr. Lalli specified that death was considered as occurring not more than two to three hours after eating (page 47 of the hearing transcript, and the adjustment described in the footnote on February 13, 2008). He stated that the emptying of the stomach occurs between a minimum of two hours and a maximum of four hours after the meal is consumed (page 62, transcripts) and also confirmed that the duodenum was empty (page 63).

bolding mine.

Also, to determine accurate time of death a global consideration of the evidence is required, not just gastric contents.

He did not narrow the time to 9pm though..

http://www.perugiamurderfile.org/download/file.php?id=1902

"while reaffirming that the emptying of the stomach generally occurs between two hours and a maximum of 4 hours after eating (page 62, hearing on April 3, 2009). He added, however, that the digestive process is influenced by many factors like the type of meal, cold, stress, physical conditions and so on, and that to his knowledge there were no reliable studies that could establish "by how much the digestive process can be changed by these factors"


"Dr. Lalli to place the time of death between 21 hours and 30 minutes and 30 hours and 30 minutes prior to the first testing, thus between 20:00 pm and 04:00 am on November 1, 2007 and November 2, 2007."

So really the digestive state did not force him to narrow the TOD. He did not even narrow it to a couple of hours.

 

[MichaelSmith]

The Massei Report summarizes what was presented in court, but the conclusions are at the end of the report. The conclusion of the court is that the last interaction of the computer was at 9:10, and that interaction occurred irrespective of the physical presence of the user. It seems to me that the conclusions of the court are what is relevant, although it is interesting to have a summary of what the various parties presented to the court.

Is Knox considered to be a reliable source regarding the evidence that was used to reach a guilty verdict?

New evidence was admitted at this trial which the defence has been trying to get on the record for years. It's a computer report saying a 23 minute cartoon called Naruto was opened at 9.26pm.

Crini accepted this and it's gone unchallenged that there was a human interaction at 9.26pm although Crini says it crashed and they ran off to the cottage as soon as it did arriving at 9.30pm

 

[otto]

New evidence was admitted at this trial which the defence has been trying to get on the record for years. It's a computer report saying a 23 minute cartoon called Naruto was opened at 9.26pm.

Crini accepted this and it's gone unchallenged that there was a human interaction at 9.26pm although Crini says it crashed and they ran off to the cottage as soon as it did arriving at 9.30pm

Do you happen to have a link to this? I missed that article.

 

[MichaelSmith]

Do you happen to have a link to this? I missed that article.

Page 66 to read Crini saying it.

http://www.amandaknox.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/4_UDIENZA-25-NOVEMBRE-2013.pdf

Or an English translation here:

http://www.amandaknox.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Curatolo-and-the-Night-of-the-Murder.docx

It was in the Italian media as the trial started and Bongiorno said she was pleased the new computer report had been accepted by the court.

 

[Harmony 2]

The line between debate and bashing has been crossed on this thread. Again.

Please be respectful of your fellow posters and their opinions. It is required by our TOS. All posters are entitled to their own opinions and interpretation of the facts and everybody should be treated respectfully. If you cannot, please do not respond to their posts or put them on ignore.

 

[otto]

Page 66 to read Crini saying it.

http://www.amandaknox.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/4_UDIENZA-25-NOVEMBRE-2013.pdf

Or an English translation here:

http://www.amandaknox.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Curatolo-and-the-Night-of-the-Murder.docx

It was in the Italian media as the trial started and Bongiorno said she was pleased the new computer report had been accepted by the court.

Thank you for the links to the suspect's blog, but i have a problem relying upon a convicted murderer for information about the evidence used for that conviction. Is there any source, other than Knox, regarding the point you raised?

 

[MichaelSmith]

Thank you for the links to the suspect's blog, but i have a problem relying upon a convicted murderer for information about the evidence used for that conviction. Is there any source, other than Knox, regarding the point you raised?

Yes the transcripts I posted which are the same ones uploaded on the fake wiki.

They remain legally innocent under Italian law until the SC signs off.

 

[MichaelSmith]

Quite amazing that some people will believe Crini if he says it rained the night of the murder but not his new timeline which has the diabolical students dashing off to the cottage all because a cartoon crashed.

 

[otto]

Quite amazing that some people will believe Crini if he says it rained the night of the murder but not his new timeline which has the diabolical students dashing off to the cottage all because a cartoon crashed.

Thanks. That doesn't help me (fake wiki??), but thanks anyway.

 

[MichaelSmith]

Thanks. That doesn't help me (fake wiki??), but thanks anyway.

If you go to the Kercher wiki site www.themurderofmeredithkercher.com and click primary sources and scroll down you'll see "Nencini Transcripts". Underneath that is a link "Transcript of Proceedings November 25, 2013 - Prosecution Closing Arguments".

Open that and you'll see it's the same as the one on Amanda's site which I gave you a link to. Go to page 66 and you'll see Crini acknowledge Naruto was opened at 9.26pm and that's when they're suppose to have left for the cottage. No reason why though is given.

Guede admitted being at the cottage when Meredith got home around 9pm.

 

[otto]

If you go to the Kercher wiki site www.themurderofmeredithkercher.com and click primary sources and scroll down you'll see "Nencini Transcripts". Underneath that is a link "Transcript of Proceedings November 25, 2013 - Prosecution Closing Arguments".

Open that and you'll see it's the same as the one on Amanda's site which I gave you a link to. Go to page 66 and you'll see Crini acknowledge Naruto was opened at 9.26pm and that's when they're suppose to have left for the cottage. No reason why though is given.

Guede admitted being at the cottage when Meredith got home around 9pm.

Thank you. I found a document in Italian, but I don't read Italian. Is there an official translation and I missed it, or has it not yet been officially translated? Additionally, I don't see any page numbers.

There is this mention of Naruto

"E quindi, diciamo, perché – ripeto - è rilevante questo argomento? E’ rilevante perché questo approfondimento fatto dal consulente D’Ambrosio, dove poi a confutazione si chiarisce anche come l’interazione Naruto delle 21:26 e qualche cosa, mi pare, che praticamente si sostanzia in nulla sul piano dei tempi, e quindi evidentemente non esclude niente dal punto di vista della tempistica, ecco, questa produzione, diciamo così, questo approfondimento di consulenza è l’importante lavoro, l’importante integrazione rispetto a che cosa?"

http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Florence_Appeal_-_Transcript_of_Proceedings_November_25,_2013

This is what Google Translate does with it:

"And then, let's say, because - I repeat - this topic is relevant? It 'important because this study done by the consultant D'Ambrosio, where he is a refutation also clarifies how the interaction of Naruto 21:26 and something, I think, that pretty much takes the form of anything in terms of time, and then obviously does not exclude anything from the point of view of timing, behold, this production, so to speak, this study is the important advisory work, the important integration with respect to what?"

I have no idea what meaning this is supposed to have.