Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL*#12

[SMK]

I have a question for anyone with more technical forensic knowledge:

If Amanda stepped on the bloody footprint on the bath mat, or even in washed away blood in the shower, would there be enough transferred to the bottom of her foot and then to the floors from that contact? Considering Luminol is so much more sensitive than TMB or other tests for blood and can detect blood to a sensitivity of 1 in 1,000,000 parts on the low end and 1 in 100,000,000 parts on the high end.

I wonder if Otto, who has a scientific background, or Professor Chris Halkides can answer this? And I would like to add another question:

How can they determine when the prints were laid, and distinguish between blood reference and hard water minerals? (in the Lindy Chamberlain case, she was charged with murder, and her husband with accessory to murder, when they found blood in their car. It later turned out to be some manufacturing spray or hard water, etc.)

 

[Amber29]

I don't believe that anything in the water caused Knox alone to leave foot prints around the cottage.

I agree there would be more prints if it was from something in the water.

Amanda Knox felt the need to explain the luminol evidence with her bathmat boogie story. IMO she knows the source behind the prints. I've said this before but these 2 don't know when to keep their mouths shut. AK and RSs biggest problem is talking too much.

 

[SMK]

Amanda Knox felt the need to explain the luminol evidence with her bathmat boogie story. IMO she knows the source behind the prints.

You have a point there.... :waitasec:

 

[SMK]

I suppose within the Massei court testimony and the motivational report, there must have been expert input/testimony which led the court to conclude as they did (my original post upthread) about the luminol footprints and trace evidence.

 

[otto]

I wonder if Otto, who has a scientific background, or Professor Chris Halkides can answer this? And I would like to add another question:

How can they determine when the prints were laid, and distinguish between blood reference and hard water minerals? (in the Lindy Chamberlain case, she was charged with murder, and her husband with accessory to murder, when they found blood in their car. It later turned out to be some manufacturing spray or hard water, etc.)

I have no idea about when or how the prints were made, but if I had to guess, I would guess that Knox stepped in blood and then she walked around the cottage.

 

[Harmony 2]

Why were there no footprints shown in luminol in the small bathroom?

 

[SMK]

Why were there no footprints shown in luminol in the small bathroom?

Maybe the floor was wiped clean?

 

[TorisMom003]

Maybe the floor was wiped clean?

If the floor was wiped clean there would be signs of it in the luminol. When a clean up of blood has occured, there are clear signs that a clean up was done. And if no chemical was used to clean up the blood in the bathroom, only water, then the luminol would still react with whatever trace amounts of blood were left there.

 

[quesarita]

Why were there no footprints shown in luminol in the small bathroom?

Maybe they didn't use luminol in the smàll bathroom, only the pink chemical.

 

[quesarita]

I have no idea about when or how the prints were made, but if I had to guess, I would guess that Knox stepped in blood and then she walked around the cottage.

If she had stepped in blood she would have left prints there, and the footprints woułd have tested positive in the tmb test as Rudy's shoe prints did. If the prints had been once visible and wiped away, the wiping would have shown up in luminol as torismom said.

These were very faint, if blood.

 

[Harmony 2]

@otto
I found this blog page - what do you think of what they are saying about the water content? (it does mention the limestone but other things as well?)

http://oneyearinperugia.wordpress.com/2012/10/05/our-apartment-in-perugia/

A study of common interferences with the forensic luminol test for blood.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11512147

...care should be taken when surfaces covered with terracotta or ceramic tiles, polyurethane varnishes or jute and sisal matting are involved.

 

[aa9511]

Explanation is simple: you remember wrong. There was Guede's palmprint on the pillowcase, why would I deny it?



You're sure the large wound is accidental? When does Guede undress and rape her? Before the stabbing? Doesn't look like a good prank to me. What is Guede doing with the pillow and the bra after the stabbing? How come there are only his traces all over?



Excellent if you believe so. There is not a footprint of them in the room. A miracle.


Yet somehow none on the surrounding fabric. How did ha manage to plant his DNA there without touching the rest of the clasp, the bra or anything else in the room? Another miracle. And Stefanoni managed to destroy completely the highly contested bra clasp, preventing any independent testing. How convenient.

Yes, I think I remembered wrong, you're right.

I don't know. Does Rudy undress and rape her? Does anyone rape her? The pillow and bra might be staged - if the rape was real, why would they need to stage anything? You don't usually have to "stage" for something that actually happened - you just leave it as it is.

There were be no footprints directly around the body, because those footprints would have been filled in with Meredith's flowing blood.

 

[aa9511]

Would that be in the same way RG teleported himself into the bathroom to clean himself without leaving any DNA?

Maybe AK and RS were wearing gloves as part of the prank?

Or, I have been thinking, they fled to Raffaele's, thought of what to do, they must have brought the "cleaning" supplies with them. They would definitely have worn gloves when they came back to the house to do the clean-up.

I do believe gloves were involved for the clean-up, that would be the obvious thing to do if you have to go back to the murder scene.

 

[aa9511]

No, someone DID murder her.
There's more evidence of Rudy because he not only grabbed her or held her, he also penetrated her vaginally and possibly anally (autopsy report), moved her, tromped around in her blood, used towels to wipe or sop some of her blood, ejaculated (untested for no known reason). Amanda is directing all of this, to preserve her year abroad? Rudy does this at her direction like none of it would ever come back to him? Raffaele is standing around nodding his head?

I believe they accidently stuck her with the knife. Badly wounded. They then stab her more to make it seem like someone came in and intentionally murdered her. I had been asking over and over again, why the overkill? Why the overkill? Of course, the supporters of her innocence did not ever think there was overkill. But it seemed like overkill to me. Now I understand why. They needed to make the accident look like the burglar had come in and intentionally murdered her. That is why there is "overkill."

Think about this - if Rudy really did rape her, why did they need to stage things like bra and clothes?

 

[aa9511]

In my theory, Guede - although drawn into a prank by Knox and Sollecito - played the bigger part and thus may have even been in the room alone with MK or for most of the time. He knows it's his own fault as he was the one who became more violent and sexual that night......:moo:

I don't think there was anything violence or sexual act planned for that night. I think they planned a bad prank, yes. involving real knives, that is not very smart, but they never actually planned on using the knives. Just scaring her with them.

I no longer think it was an escalation of anything.

I do not think they were crazed on drugs.

The plan was for Rudy to go in first and grab her. He was holding her. THen Amanda and RS go in after him. She accidentally gets stuck with the knife. Rudy drops her. That is why there is only Rudy DNA on her clothes. Then they do the overkill, after panicking and deciding that was their only choice.

 

[aa9511]

I agree there would be more prints if it was from something in the water.

Amanda Knox felt the need to explain the luminol evidence with her bathmat boogie story. IMO she knows the source behind the prints. I've said this before but these 2 don't know when to keep their mouths shut. AK and RSs biggest problem is talking too much.

Well, they are free to talk. We wouldn't want to take that another freedom away from them.

 

[TorisMom003]

I believe they accidently stuck her with the knife. Badly wounded. They then stab her more to make it seem like someone came in and intentionally murdered her. I had been asking over and over again, why the overkill? Why the overkill? Of course, the supporters of her innocence did not ever think there was overkill. But it seemed like overkill to me. Now I understand why. They needed to make the accident look like the burglar had come in and intentionally murdered her. That is why there is "overkill."

Think about this - if Rudy really did rape her, why did they need to stage things like bra and clothes?

How were the bra and clothes staged? I think that part of the reason why some don't see "overkill" is because of following other cases where there is clearly "overkill". For instance the Jodi Arias case. She killed Travis three different ways. Each of those three different ways, alone, would have killed him. Numerous stab wounds to the body (one knicking his heart), sliced throat and bullet to the head. This case doesn't have that.

 

[TorisMom003]

Maybe they didn't use luminol in the smàll bathroom, only the pink chemical.

You mean the pink chemical that they took photos of after it had been applied? The same photos that they promptly sent out to the media to exclaim that Amanda had taken a shower in a bathroom "covered in blood"? It makes zero sense for them to not use the luminol as well, especially when there is clearly a bloody footprint on the bath mat. But then it also makes zero sense that they waited 46 before collecting and bagging important items that they clearly saw when they first began investigating Meredith's murder.

MOO

 

[otto]

How were the bra and clothes staged? I think that part of the reason why some don't see "overkill" is because of following other cases where there is clearly "overkill". For instance the Jodi Arias case. She killed Travis three different ways. Each of those three different ways, alone, would have killed him. Numerous stab wounds to the body (one knicking his heart), sliced throat and bullet to the head. This case doesn't have that.

This case has stabbing in the throat, suffocation and strangulation ... and 43 injuries.

 

[otto]

You mean the pink chemical that they took photos of after it had been applied? The same photos that they promptly sent out to the media to exclaim that Amanda had taken a shower in a bathroom "covered in blood"? It makes zero sense for them to not use the luminol as well, especially when there is clearly a bloody footprint on the bath mat. But then it also makes zero sense that they waited 46 before collecting and bagging important items that they clearly saw when they first began investigating Meredith's murder.

MOO

What was that red substance and why is it used?