Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL*#12

[aa9511]

As far as the bra clasp goes, if you were just quickly pulling it away from her body to cut it, wouldn't it make sense that the part that was protruding due to being bent would be the part you made contact with?

I was thinking along the same lines. I was thinking that the clasp is more metal and sharper, and thus there would be greater chance of leaving some DNA on it.

 

[quesarita]

Good thinking, thanks! :great:

Ok, here's the pic. There's no ruler, but I'd guess the fabric strap section would be 1" to 1-1/4" wide with 2 hooks. The other side of the strap must have 2 loops.

My understanding is that the sample size was extremely small, as if one or two skin cells.

 

[aa9511]

bbm - this is what virtually everyone who is open to or believes in guilt asks. To me, it doesn't look good, because Rudy was very forensics oriented: Everything he said was to explain what evidence the newspapers said they found. It's as if he felt there could be no evidence of Knox and Sollecito. In any case, when I entertain guilt, this is a sticking point for sure. He even goes so far to say on the Skype call, "Amanda had nothing to do with it."

Ok, but you can also take it the other way, it almost seems as if he was protecting Amanda and Raffaele. Why? At that point, wasn't it all in the papers that the police suspected Amanda and RS had something to do with it? You would think he would be egging that on.

 

[quesarita]

He doesn't have one? What about a made-up one, which all of his stories are? He had no problem making up all kinds of other stories.

Here we have two innocent people who were there to take the blame for him, and yet he never outright gives them that blame?

If he is the accomplished liar that he seems to be, maybe he knows enough to retreat to vagueness when being pushed for more details that could trip him up. For example, he told the nursery owner that "someone" told him he could sleep there for the night, but never gave a name.

 

[Myvice]

From the photos I saw, it looks like the clasp is actually more what I would call a hook, there are two hooks one above the other, too small to actually grab by itself.

I see where you're coming from, but my point is that he didn't actually hold on to it. He just put his finger behind the hook to quickly pull it away from her body to cut it. No actual holding of the material.

 

[quesarita]

Ok, here's the pic. There's no ruler, but I'd guess the fabric strap section would be 1" to 1-1/4" wide with 2 hooks. The other side of the strap must have 2 loops.

My understanding is that the sample size was extremely small, as if one or two skin cells.

I've read that the bra clasp had gotten rusty during the weeks on the floor before it was collected. It looks like there are small spots of rust transferred to the floor from the clasp. It's not hard to imagine a few skin cells of several males being transferred to the clasp in the same way.

 

[Myvice]

If he is the accomplished liar that he seems to be, maybe he knows enough to retreat to vagueness when being pushed for more details that could trip him up. For example, he told the nursery owner that "someone" told him he could sleep there for the night, but never gave a name.

ITA. Why should he risk telling stories that could be used against him. He has never admitted to the murder and has steered clear of that so why risk talking about it to show guilt of whoever else was involved. That really doesn't benefit him and why should he want to help the cos?

The less you say the less that can trip you up.

 

[quesarita]

I see where you're coming from, but my point is that he didn't actually hold on to it. He just put his finger behind the hook to quickly pull it away from her body to cut it. No actual holding of the material.

I understand, but the hooks are usually on the outside of the strap right? The fabric of the strap goes between the hooks and your skin.

 

[Katody]

He doesn't have one? What about a made-up one, which all of his stories are? He had no problem making up all kinds of other stories.

Here we have two innocent people who were there to take the blame for him, and yet he never outright gives them that blame?

The prosecution were not able to create a story matching the evidence all these years, why would Guede?

Initially he was hesitant because he knew they were innocent, he expected them to be released soon and most importantly he knew there was no evidence of them. His story quite well incorporates the evidence he was aware he himself left behind: the prints, the dna, the feces, blood traces. He expected anything he would invent about Amanda to be quickly proven false by the evidence.
When he finally tried to fit Amanda in, he failed miserably: for example n his later version Amanda rings the doorbell to get into her own home.

 

[aa9511]

Ok, in summary, I do not see any reason why Rudy held back on blaming Amanda and RS n the innocence scenario.

-it would take the blame off the actual killing off of him and make his story that he didn't kill her more believable than the one he ended up using. Where he just sees them as a vision or in some kind of a haze or something. And some guy with brown hair, which there are billions of people with brown hair. They were already suspected, it would be easy for him to blame them for the killing part. Not saying his version of the story would be believed, just saying that his part in blaming them would be easy.

-if he didn't blame them because he was worried his words would be inconsistent with the evidence found - well, but the story he ended up with was very inconsistent with the evidence found and did not make sense. And no one believes it. If it matched up with the evidence, people would believe it. The reason it's not believable, is because it does not match up with the evidence found. He was making up stories. So why not actually make up a story which would have some benefit for him?

-Amanda and RS innocenct means they were not there, thus they can't say anything to refute what he says. Only thing they can say is, no none of it is true. We weren't there. They can't correct any details he gives, because in innocent-scenario, of course they don't know any details because they weren't there.

 

[Katody]

I understand, but the hooks are usually on the outside of the strap right? The fabric of the strap goes between the hooks and your skin.

The metal elements are covered by pieces fabric from both sides when hooked. No way to avoid the fabric.

The only way to touch the hook and not the fabric is like in the police video, where the cop actually 'carefully' holds the ripped off clasp by the hook.

 

[Myvice]

I understand, but the hooks are usually on the outside of the strap right? The fabric of the strap goes between the hooks and your skin.

The hooks are between your body and the bra. If he stuck his finger between the bra and her body he would touch the hook before any material.

He may have even thought if he grabbed the hook it would unclasp without cutting it. It just wouldn't pass through the eye at the angle it was bent I guess.

 

[aa9511]

If he is the accomplished liar that he seems to be, maybe he knows enough to retreat to vagueness when being pushed for more details that could trip him up. For example, he told the nursery owner that "someone" told him he could sleep there for the night, but never gave a name.

Yes true, but in this case he already had names, he already had people available to take the blame for him.

 

[Myvice]

Yes true, but in this case he already had names, he already had people available to take the blame for him.

But remember his comment about black man found black man guilty or something like that?

If he felt that way, wouldn't he be better of just sticking by his story of not taking part in the murder and leaving himself distant from that?

It doesn't help him in any way to implicate AK and RS because that creates more questions as to what actually happened.

It's sort of like AK claiming to not remember what happened, IMO.

 

[aa9511]

The prosecution were not able to create a story matching the evidence all these years, why would Guede?

Initially he was hesitant because he knew they were innocent, he expected them to be released soon and most importantly he knew there was no evidence of them. His story quite well incorporates the evidence he was aware he himself left behind: the prints, the dna, the feces, blood traces. He expected anything he would invent about Amanda to be quickly proven false by the evidence.
When he finally tried to fit Amanda in, he failed miserably: for example n his later version Amanda rings the doorbell to get into her own home.

Ok, I understand. But what I am thinking is, that his end story does not match evidence in any coherent way. He was just throwing ideas out there.

 

[Myvice]

The metal elements are covered by pieces fabric from both sides when hooked. No way to avoid the fabric.

The only way to touch the hook and not the fabric is like in the police video, where the cop actually 'carefully' holds the ripped off clasp by the hook.

The hooks would be protruding against the skin of her back when the were bent in the position in the photo.

 

[quesarita]

The hooks are between your body and the bra. If he stuck his finger between the bra and her body he would touch the hook before any material.

He may have even thought if he grabbed the hook it would unclasp without cutting it. It just wouldn't pass through the eye at the angle it was bent I guess.

The hooks on my bra are most definitely not touching my skin, but I will concede that if someone were to get their finger between the 2 pieces of fabric, they could come in contact with the hooks.

But how did DNA from 2 other unidentified male persons also get on the clasp?

 

[Myvice]

The hooks on my bra are most definitely not touching my skin, but I will concede that if someone were to get their finger between the 2 pieces of fabric, they could come in contact with the hooks.

But how did DNA from 2 other unidentified male persons also get on the clasp?

I understand that there is a flap behind the hooks coming from the other side of the bra back...but this bra was mangled and with the hook being so bent I think it it's probable it wasn't in it's normal position. Do we know if the did testing on that side of the bra back or just the hook side?

 

[Katody]

The hooks would be protruding against the skin of her back when the were bent in the position in the photo.

I thought you meant there was attempt of unhooking it before the bra had been torn apart and the hooks bent.

Forceful pulling required to bend the hooks and rip apart the bra would leave a lot of DNA on the bra.

 

[quesarita]

Ok, I understand. But what I am thinking is, that his end story does not match evidence in any coherent way. He was just throwing ideas out there.

This is especially true for one part of his story: he insists Meredith let him in to the apartment. Why not say Amanda let him in? He could say they all went in together, or she gave him a key so he could get a drink or use the bathroom. Why say Meredith let him in? Then he has to invent a situation where Amanda rings the doorbell instead of using her key?

So, in the guilty scenarios, does anyone really believe Meredith let Rudy into the house herself?