Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL*#12

[Katody]

No, you're just creating problems to make it sound implausible. It would not be surprising to find an intruder remembered to bring a flashlight; it would not be surprising that someone could find the bathroom without turning on the laundry light; also, if the bathroom door opens the way it shows in the police generated floor plan, he wouldn't even have to leave his seat to turn off the bathroom light and close the door, wouldn't even have to close the door all the way.

Thanks for bringing back the common sense.

 

[SMK]

One thing I'd like to add,

There is evidence of single person attacking and murdering Meredith in her room. Evidence of Guede.

Taken as a whole the evidence shows a most usual crime of burglary gone murder.

It's hard to accept that some nebulous three way sex game, group rape prank assault, mortal group-fight over unflushed poo or whatever other scenario it is now happened somehow leaving no evidence but the evidence of simple burglary by one guy.

On the surface, and judging purely from statistics and forensics, you are right. Of course a burglar turned rapist, killer is far more likely and evident than the idea of a prank-gone-wrong.

However - going back to Nov 2 - questions about Knox and Sollecito and the staged room and the lamp in the room, etc. - How to wholly dismiss this circumstantial evidence and inference-making empirical evidence....

 

[Katody]

On the surface, and judging purely from statistics and forensics, you are right. Of course a burglar turned rapist, killer is far more likely and evident than the idea of a prank-gone-wrong.

However - going back to Nov 2 - questions about Knox and Sollecito and the staged room and the lamp in the room, etc. - How to wholly dismiss this circumstantial evidence and inference-making empirical evidence....

I'm ready not to dismiss it when finally someone puts it together into anything solid. Didn't happen in 7 years, I don't think it will happen ever.

 

[otto]

On the surface, and judging purely from statistics and forensics, you are right. Of course a burglar turned rapist, killer is far more likely and evident than the idea of a prank-gone-wrong.

However - going back to Nov 2 - questions about Knox and Sollecito and the staged room and the lamp in the room, etc. - How to wholly dismiss this circumstantial evidence and inference-making empirical evidence....

Since we're assuming that Guede had a flashlight, I really have to wonder why he needed a fourth light source in Meredith's bedroom ... ceiling light, Meredith's lamp, Knox's lamp plus a flashlight. That's a bit like using two knives and stabbing from two different directions while restraining Meredith's arms and suffocating her all at the same time. Guede is an octopus.

I just can't picture him sneaking down the hallway with two knives and a flashlight.

 

[Katody]

On the surface, and judging purely from statistics and forensics, you are right. Of course a burglar turned rapist, killer is far more likely and evident than the idea of a prank-gone-wrong.

Not just an idea of prank go wrong (or whatever) but one leaving evidence of single buglar/rapist.
Now that's extra unusual, and cries for some explanation.

 

[Katody]

Since we're assuming that Guede had a flashlight, I really have to wonder why he needed a fourth light source in Meredith's bedroom ... ceiling light, Meredith's lamp, Knox's lamp plus a flashlight. That's a bit like using two knives and stabbing from two different direction. Guede is an octopus.

This really makes you wonder? I wonder where are all the traces of other people in this room?

How come Guede leaves dozen footprints in the room, handprint and numerous DNA traces and Amanda who supposedly did the stabbing leaves nothing. A miracle.

 

[quesarita]

Since we're assuming that Guede had a flashlight, I really have to wonder why he needed a fourth light source in Meredith's bedroom ... ceiling light, Meredith's lamp, Knox's lamp plus a flashlight. That's a bit like using two knives and stabbing from two different directions while restraining Meredith's arms and suffocating her all at the same time. Guede is an octopus.

I just can't picture him sneaking down the hallway with two knives and a flashlight.

Naturally, the flashlight would have been back in his pocket because Meredith would have turned on the hall light when she came home :facepalm:

 

[TorisMom003]

Since we're assuming that Guede had a flashlight, I really have to wonder why he needed a fourth light source in Meredith's bedroom ... ceiling light, Meredith's lamp, Knox's lamp plus a flashlight. That's a bit like using two knives and stabbing from two different directions while restraining Meredith's arms and suffocating her all at the same time. Guede is an octopus.

I just can't picture him sneaking down the hallway with two knives and a flashlight.

There is nothing that factually shows that RG used Meredith's lamp or AK's lamp. Meredith's lamp was found on the floor by her bed and could have been knocked over from the bedside table during the struggle. This "ceiling light" that keeps getting mentioned is not really a ceiling light at all. It is a light on the wall close to but not on the ceiling. It appears to be a single bulb light and wouldn't be as bright as a normal ceiling light that would use more than one bulb or be a fluorescent light. Below is the picture showing the "ceiling light" in Meredith's room.

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/PhotoGallery4.html

 

[otto]

... and I forgot about the hammer that he used to chip away the glass after he broke the window and scaled the wall. I need a graphic to fully appreciate Guede, stoned/drunk (since that's when he is aggressive towards women) sneaking down the hallway, unnoticed, flashlight in one hand, small knife in the other, large knife somewhere else, little hammer somewhere else, when he surprises Meredith and tells her to cooperate with her murder, so she doesn't fight back. I'm being a bit ridiculous, obviously, but we need to look at the big picture. We can't put a flashlight in Guede hands in the bathroom and then when he arrives in Meredith's bedroom, the flashlight no longer exists. We can't put a small hammer in his hand to tap away at the broken window and have it disappear when he is in the bathroom. We can't have him being aggressive towards women only when he's drunk/stoned, and have him sober while attacking Meredith. It has to all add up, not only be true at the convenient moment.

 

[otto]

There is nothing that factually shows that RG used Meredith's lamp or AK's lamp. Meredith's lamp was found on the floor by her bed and could have been knocked over from the bedside table during the struggle. This "ceiling light" that keeps getting mentioned is not really a ceiling light at all. It is a light on the wall close to but not on the ceiling. It appears to be a single bulb light and wouldn't be as bright as a normal ceiling light that would use more than one bulb or be a fluorescent light. Below is the picture showing the "ceiling light" in Meredith's room.

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/PhotoGallery4.html

Isn't it odd that the lamp was knocked over during a struggle, but the glass of water on the night stand remained undisturbed?

I don't think Meredith's lamp was knocked over, I think it was put on the floor for the same reason that Knox's lamp was put on the floor ... but we don't know what that was.

 

[Katody]

I don't think Meredith's lamp was knocked over, I think it was put on the floor for the same reason that Knox's lamp was put on the floor ... but we don't know what that was.

It was when Amanda used her microscope to remove her DNA traces leaving only Guede's around.

 

[aa9511]

Exactly. So why did he not avail himself of this "out"

Yes, exactly.

If the two assailants were innocent, do you see how the liquor store robber would have more incentive to say "they shot him, not me, I was on the other side of the room....."? Because then the two assailants would say, "but, but, no! We weren't even there!" Which is what they had already been saying. Which the investigators seemingly didn't believe anyway. What else could they say? Nothing. Only, "no, we weren't there! He's lying!!"

If the two assailants really were guilty, along with this guy, the guy would not be able to get away with using his line of "no it was them, I was on the other side of the store and all I did was put bottles in my bag." Because then, the two assailants turn around and say to the police, "no, he's lying. This is what actually happened - we were busy putting the cash in the register, he was supposed to be putting bottles in his bag and being the lookout. Then all of sudden he comes over and starts trying to put money in his bag too. He wasn't payin' attention to the owner, all of a sudden we see that the owner had rolled over to near the phone and was trying to reach the phone. This guy panicked, and he shot him. After that, he just ran away. We (the other two) tried to help the guy, but it was too late. We got scared, and we ran off too."

 

[TorisMom003]

... and I forgot about the hammer that he used to chip away the glass after he broke the window and scaled the wall. I need a graphic to fully appreciate Guede, stoned/drunk (since that's when he is aggressive towards women) sneaking down the hallway, unnoticed, flashlight in one hand, small knife in the other, large knife somewhere else, little hammer somewhere else, when he surprises Meredith and tells her to cooperate with her murder, so she doesn't fight back. I'm being a bit ridiculous, obviously, but we need to look at the big picture. We can't put a flashlight in Guede hands in the bathroom and then when he arrives in Meredith's bedroom, the flashlight no longer exists. We can't put a small hammer in his hand to tap away at the broken window and have it disappear when he is in the bathroom. We can't have him being aggressive towards women only when he's drunk/stoned, and have him sober while attacking Meredith. It has to all add up, not only be true at the convenient moment.

One does not need a hammer to remove glass from a window that has already been broken by a rock. The fingers from a hand will work just fine. I suppose it has been forgotten that RG more than likely had a jacket on since it was chilly out so he had plenty of pockets to chose from when needing to put things away to make his hands free, also counting his pants pockets of course. As far as I know RG had not broken into any buildings with any of his friends so they wouldn't know if he was aggresive during those times. We also don't have a single female that has confronted RG when he has broken into a building. Truth is we don't know much about his true personality at all and he sure as heck won't be letting anyone know if he is naturally aggressive on a regular basis or not, especially now.

MOO

 

[Katody]

Guede pulled a knife on Tramontano when he surprised him during burglary.

 

[Amber29]

One does not need a hammer to remove glass from a window that has already been broken by a rock. The fingers from a hand will work just fine. I suppose it has been forgotten that RG more than likely had a jacket on since it was chilly out so he had plenty of pockets to chose from when needing to put things away to make his hands free, also counting his pants pockets of course. As far as I know RG had not broken into any buildings with any of his friends so they wouldn't know if he was aggresive during those times. We also don't have a single female that has confronted RG when he has broken into a building. Truth is we don't know much about his true personality at all and he sure as heck won't be letting anyone know if he is naturally aggressive on a regular basis or not, especially now.

MOO

I don't know about assuming RG was wearing a jacket, he talks about wearing a sweater. I don't know why he wouldn't mention a jacket, do you think he disposed of this jacket?

 

[SMK]

... and I forgot about the hammer that he used to chip away the glass after he broke the window and scaled the wall. I need a graphic to fully appreciate Guede, stoned/drunk (since that's when he is aggressive towards women) sneaking down the hallway, unnoticed, flashlight in one hand, small knife in the other, large knife somewhere else, little hammer somewhere else, when he surprises Meredith and tells her to cooperate with her murder, so she doesn't fight back. I'm being a bit ridiculous, obviously, but we need to look at the big picture. We can't put a flashlight in Guede hands in the bathroom and then when he arrives in Meredith's bedroom, the flashlight no longer exists. We can't put a small hammer in his hand to tap away at the broken window and have it disappear when he is in the bathroom. We can't have him being aggressive towards women only when he's drunk/stoned, and have him sober while attacking Meredith. It has to all add up, not only be true at the convenient moment.

:laugh: :laugh: Otto, I think Guede would have had to come armed with all these tools :giggle:

 

[TorisMom003]

Isn't it odd that the lamp was knocked over during a struggle, but the glass of water on the night stand remained undisturbed?

I don't think Meredith's lamp was knocked over, I think it was put on the floor for the same reason that Knox's lamp was put on the floor ... but we don't know what that was.

If one looks at the photo of the bed and bedside table it is clear that an area of the table is cleared off. The glass of water is further to the other side of the table. There is also the bloody finger swipes on the wall between the bed and the bedside table leading to evidence of a struggle occuring in that spot. The lamp (Meredith's) is on the floor between the bed and the bedside table. The above leads me to believe that the lamp was in fact knocked over during the struggle and landed on the floor.

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/PhotoGallery4.html

 

[quesarita]

... and I forgot about the hammer that he used to chip away the glass after he broke the window and scaled the wall. I need a graphic to fully appreciate Guede, stoned/drunk (since that's when he is aggressive towards women) sneaking down the hallway, unnoticed, flashlight in one hand, small knife in the other, large knife somewhere else, little hammer somewhere else, when he surprises Meredith and tells her to cooperate with her murder, so she doesn't fight back. I'm being a bit ridiculous, obviously, but we need to look at the big picture. We can't put a flashlight in Guede hands in the bathroom and then when he arrives in Meredith's bedroom, the flashlight no longer exists. We can't put a small hammer in his hand to tap away at the broken window and have it disappear when he is in the bathroom. We can't have him being aggressive towards women only when he's drunk/stoned, and have him sober while attacking Meredith. It has to all add up, not only be true at the convenient moment.

Actually I think your description is more than a bit ridiculous. When he was found with the glass breaking hammer it was in a back pack that was large enough to also contain a large kitchen knife, 2 phones and a laptop computer among other small items. So, he was known to carry such a pack when breaking and entering.
Re: the 2 knives. My understanding is that the idea of 2 knives comes only from trying to fit Raffaele's large kitchen knife into the story, because some of the wounds could ONLY have been caused by a smaller knife; and in reality the smaller knife could have caused ALL the wounds.

 

[TorisMom003]

I don't know about assuming RG was wearing a jacket, he talks about wearing a sweater. I don't know why he wouldn't mention a jacket, do you think he disposed of this jacket?

If he was wearing a jacket when he killed Meredith it would have blood on it. We know he disposed of at least his shoes, that had Meredith's blood on them, so yes I do believe that he disposed of his jacket.

MOO

 

[SMK]

I'm ready not to dismiss it when finally someone puts it together into anything solid. Didn't happen in 7 years, I don't think it will happen ever.

Yes, I agree. It is not as solid as it should be.