Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL*#12

[Amber29]

Actually I think your description is more than a bit ridiculous. When he was found with the glass breaking hammer it was in a back pack that was large enough to also contain a large kitchen knife, 2 phones and a laptop computer among other small items. So, he was known to carry such a pack when breaking and entering.
Re: the 2 knives. My understanding is that the idea of 2 knives comes only from trying to fit Raffaele's large kitchen knife into the story, because some of the wounds could ONLY have been caused by a smaller knife; and in reality the smaller knife could have caused ALL the wounds.

If he was wearing this backpack, why do you suppose he hadn't starting packing some of Filomenas things in it before leaving her room?

 

[sherlockh]

On the surface, and judging purely from statistics and forensics, you are right. Of course a burglar turned rapist, killer is far more likely and evident than the idea of a prank-gone-wrong.

However - going back to Nov 2 - questions about Knox and Sollecito and the staged room and the lamp in the room, etc. - How to wholly dismiss this circumstantial evidence and inference-making empirical evidence....

Are there really statistics on burglars turn rapist/killers? I thought pranks happen all the time? Knox certainly done it before.

Reminds me a bit of the latest McCann theory. Burglars supposedly took Madeleine. I don't see why burglars would do such a thing. They usually run away.

In this case we just give Guide an MO of stealing laptops...eeehh..throwing rocks based on possession of a stolen laptop, and somehow it makes more sense that a burglar would murder instead of a prank gone wrong.

Doesn't make any sense to me. Murder just doesn't make sense. JMO.

 

[Amber29]

If he was wearing a jacket when he killed Meredith it would have blood on it. We know he disposed of at least his shoes, that had Meredith's blood on them, so yes I do believe that he disposed of his jacket.

MOO

So we are to assume RG can successfully dispose of many things from the murder night like his clothes, shoes, knife, and jacket but AK and RS aren't capable of the same?

 

[SMK]

So we are to assume RG can successfully dispose of many things from the murder night like his clothes, shoes, knife, and jacket but AK and RS aren't capable of the same?

That is a good point.

 

[TorisMom003]

So we are to assume RG can successfully dispose of many things from the murder night like his clothes, shoes, knife, and jacket but AK and RS aren't capable of the same?

Seeing how Guede left the country and the other two did not, then my answer would have to be yes. After all, those shoes were never found correct?!? The box for the shoes was found at Guede's place, yes? And that was how the police was able to match all of those shoe prints to him? They knew what kind of shoes they were and looked to see what the soles of those shoes would look like?

 

[SMK]

Are there really statistics on burglars turn rapist/killers? I thought pranks happen all the time? Knox certainly done it before.

Reminds me a bit of the latest McCann theory. Burglars supposedly took Madeleine. I don't see why burglars would do such a thing. They usually run away.

In this case we just give Guide an MO of stealing laptops...eeehh..throwing rocks based on possession of a stolen laptop, and somehow it makes more sense that a burglar would murder instead of a prank gone wrong.

Doesn't make any sense to me. Murder just doesn't make sense. JMO.

That is a good point about the statistics. I personally know of 2 cases of burglaries turned rape. I have read of ones turned murder. I fully agree with you on the McCanns thing. I also feel when looking at pics of Meredith's bloody room , why did it go that far?

 

[Katody]

Are there really statistics on burglars turn rapist/killers? I thought pranks happen all the time? Knox certainly done it before.

Reminds me a bit of the latest McCann theory. Burglars supposedly took Madeleine. I don't see why burglars would do such a thing. They usually run away.

In this case we just give Guide an MO of stealing laptops...eeehh..throwing rocks based on possession of a stolen laptop, and somehow it makes more sense that a burglar would murder instead of a prank gone wrong.

Doesn't make any sense to me. Murder just doesn't make sense. JMO.

Are there any statistics on pranks that end in rape and cutting throat and leave evidence of a single burglar?

 

[otto]

I don't know about assuming RG was wearing a jacket, he talks about wearing a sweater. I don't know why he wouldn't mention a jacket, do you think he disposed of this jacket?

That's right. He pulled his sweatshirt down to cover the blood on his pants when he went home after the murder.

 

[TorisMom003]

Are there any statistics on pranks that end in rape and cutting throat and leave evidence of a single burglar?

That would be a no. And that is one of the reasons why the idea of a prank that went bad makes no sense at all. I always think of K.I.S.S. If you have to do mind tricks comparable with mental gymnastics then one needs to stop and think as to why they must make it so difficult, especially when there is a much more simple answer.

MOO

 

[quesarita]

So we are to assume RG can successfully dispose of many things from the murder night like his clothes, shoes, knife, and jacket but AK and RS aren't capable of the same?

As others have pointed out, he was not being observed by the police for 2 days after the murder, at which time he fled for Germany, which is where he said he disposed of the shoes and clothes.

Amanda and Raffaele had only a few hours and much less geography for any unobserved disposal. Also IIRC, all of their clothing was accounted for and tested negative for blood.

 

[TorisMom003]

That's right. He pulled his sweatshirt down to cover the blood on his pants when he went home after the murder.

And who said that? That's right, the killer Guede himself. Why on earth would he tell the truth about any of it? Especially when he still hasn't admitted that he killed Meredith.

 

[Amber29]

Seeing how Guede left the country and the other two did not, then my answer would have to be yes. After all, those shoes were never found correct?!? The box for the shoes was found at Guede's place, yes? And that was how the police was able to match all of those shoe prints to him? They knew what kind of shoes they were and looked to see what the soles of those shoes would look like?

Guede left the country 2 days later. Do you think he was traveling with these things? RS had a car and a whole night to dispose of things.

 

[Katody]

Guede left the country 2 days later. Do you think he was traveling with these things? RS had a car and a whole night to dispose of things.

If we are to believe that no CCTV cameras captured them that night moving the car, and that he cleaned the car so perfectly that the tests returned nothing at all. They did a lot of tests on his car interior.

I guess Raffaele used the same electron microscope that helped Amanda remove completely her DNA from the room.

 

[TorisMom003]

Guede left the country 2 days later. Do you think he was traveling with these things? RS had a car and a whole night to dispose of things.

Guede was an unknown at the time. No one was looking at him for the murder. Why wouldn't he take those bloody items with him and dispose of them in another country? Since there was so much "cleaning and staging of the crime scene" by AK and RS, when exactly did they have time to dispose of anything? And if they did dispose of things why did police not find them when they searched nearby areas for bloody items? Also AK and RS had the police on their case immediately after Meredith was found. No matter what the police want to claim, AK and RS were suspects from the begining because of their "behavior" that the police felt was not right.

MOO

 

[Amber29]

And who said that? That's right, the killer Guede himself. Why on earth would he tell the truth about any of it? Especially when he still hasn't admitted that he killed Meredith.

But it's believed he disposed of things in Germany because he said so....

 

[otto]

That is a good point about the statistics. I personally know of 2 cases of burglaries turned rape. I have read of ones turned murder. I fully agree with you on the McCanns thing. I also feel when looking at pics of Meredith's bloody room , why did it go that far?

Exactly. Meredith had something like 43 separate injuries on her body, yet almost nothing in terms of defensive wounds. It's shocking that a computer thief would forget to take the computer and instead inflict so many injuries to someone that appears to have been restrained for no reason.

 

[otto]

And who said that? That's right, the killer Guede himself. Why on earth would he tell the truth about any of it? Especially when he still hasn't admitted that he killed Meredith.

That statement from Guede's diary has been repeated many times by those that believe Knox is innocent, as it is the basis for the scenario where Guede washes his clothes in the small bathroom ... and the water drips down his leg to create the perfect shape of a foot on the bathmat.

 

[sherlockh]

That is a good point about the statistics. I personally know of 2 cases of burglaries turned rape. I have read of ones turned murder. I fully agree with you on the McCanns thing. I also feel when looking at pics of Meredith's bloody room , why did it go that far?

I also read of pranks that turn bad or were bad in the first place. Murder is not a common thing to do, so I don't really think the statistics matter because there will be always something unique. I rather just follow the evidence. Imagine you are a defense lawyer and you point out that the evidence doesn't matter because something else happens more often. That is not how it works IMO

 

[Katody]

Just to counter the very misleading 43 injuries claim:

from Massei:

There were no noticeable injuries to the chest or abdomen.
The presence of two relatively slight areas of bruising, with scarce colouring and barely noticeable, were detected in the region of the elbow.
On the hands were small wounds showing a very slight defensive response.
A small, very slight patch of colour was noticed on the "anterior inner surface of the left thigh" (page 16). Another bruise was noted on the anterior surface, in the middle third of the right leg" (page 17).

The mythical "43 injuries" were mostly very slight bruises that were not obviously connected to the crime. There was no sign of restraining, which would leave significant and noticeable bruising.
There were injuries to the face, neck and head, however:

a fine pattern of petechiae on the internal eyelid conjunctive;
the presence of tiny areas of contusion at the level of the nose, localised around the nostrils and at the limen nasi [threshold of the nose];
inside the mucous membranes of the lips, injuries compatible with a traumatic action localised in the inner surface of the lower lip and the inner surface of the upper lip, reaching up to the gum ridge [fornice gengivale];
also found on the lower side of the jaw were some bruising injuries, and in the posterior region of the cheek as well, in proximity to the ear;
three bruising injuries were present on the level of the lower edge of the right jaw with a roughly round shape. In the region under the jaw an area with a deep abrasion was observed, localised in the lower region of the middle part at the left [parte mediana sinistra] of the jaw.

 

[Amber29]

I also read of pranks that turn bad or were bad in the first place. Murder is not a common thing to do, so I don't really think the statistics matter because there will be always something unique. I rather just follow the evidence. Imagine you are a defense lawyer and you point out that the evidence doesn't matter because something else happens more often. That is not how it works IMO

Where I'm from there is a famous athlete on trial for intoxication manslaughter. His blood alcohol level tested at .18 legal limit being .08. The toxicologist that tested his blood testified that he estimated for a man his weight of 325lbs he drank some 17 drinks. His defense lawyer is arguing that the sample was contaminated in the lab! :floorlaugh: