Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL*#12

[SMK]

I also read of pranks that turn bad or were bad in the first place. Murder is not a common thing to do, so I don't really think the statistics matter because there will be always something unique. I rather just follow the evidence. Imagine you are a defense lawyer and you point out that the evidence doesn't matter because something else happens more often. That is not how it works IMO

True: That is not how it works. Unusual crimes can and do happen, statistics not withstanding.

 

[Katody]

I also read of pranks that turn bad or were bad in the first place. Murder is not a common thing to do, so I don't really think the statistics matter because there will be always something unique. I rather just follow the evidence.

Great. Let's look at the evidence in the murder room. No trace of Amanda. Footprints, fingerprints, DNA of Guede's all over the room, the floor, the victim's body and clothing.

 

[TorisMom003]

But it's believed he disposed of things in Germany because he said so....

No, it's believed that he disposed of things in another country because he was in another country after he killed Meredith and none of his bloody things were found anywhere near the crime scene in Perugia nor in the place he resided.

 

[sherlockh]

Great. Let's look at the evidence in the murder room. No trace of Amanda. Footprints, fingerprints, DNA of Guede's all over the room, the floor, the victim's body and clothing.

Yes I know. The few traces of Guede are all over the room, and the traces of Knox and Sollecito don't count. It is almost judgement day

 

[TorisMom003]

That statement from Guede's diary has been repeated many times by those that believe Knox is innocent, as it is the basis for the scenario where Guede washes his clothes in the small bathroom ... and the water drips down his leg to create the perfect shape of a foot on the bathmat.

And? So a person can't wear a sweater and a jacket at the same time? Please tell that to my 12 year old daughter as she does it quite often on her way home from school. In fact I also wear a sweater and then put a jacket over top of it when it is cold outside.

 

[otto]

No, it's believed that he disposed of things in another country because he was in another country after he killed Meredith and none of his bloody things were found anywhere near the crime scene in Perugia nor in the place he resided.

Guede could have disposed of whatever bloody clothing he had when he went to the disco after the murder.

It would have been very problematic for Sollecito if he left the country after the murder, as he had ties and commitments. The same is true of Knox. They could not vanish without immediately raising suspicion. Guede, on the other hand, did not have the same commitments and ties such that leaving town would raise suspicion.

 

[Katody]

True: That is not how it works. Unusual crimes can and do happen, statistics not withstanding.

Saying unusual things happen is no substitute for providing the motive the scenario and the actual evidence. Tell us what happened, piece together the elements into a scenario - that's what the supreme court asked for. Crini delivered... a poo fight.

 

[TorisMom003]

Yes I know. The few traces of Guede are all over the room, and the traces of Knox and Sollecito don't count. It is almost judgement day

Well to be fair, the traces of Guede on that bra clasp that had been left for 46 days to wander all over the place shouldn't be counted against Guede either. After all, there was a true chance of contamination regarding that bra clasp. However, the other things against Guede do count. For instance his DNA on Meredith. No chance of contamination there. The bloody handprint on the pillow, again no chance of contamination. The bloody shoe prints that match with the soles of the shoes that Guede got rid of on the pillow, again no chance of contamination there. In fact, anything that was collected the day/evening that Meredith was found that points to Guede is not going to run the chance of being contaminated as Guede had not been in the cottage (upstairs) before and he had no reason for anything of his (DNA, footprints, fingerprints) to be in the cottage.

The footprints in the hallway that are similar to AK's size, very questionable. Especially when it is found out (after originally being claimed that they DO) that those footprints are not in Meredith's blood. The footprints of the other women that lived in the cottage were not checked to see if those footprints could have been theirs.

MOO

 

[Katody]

Yes I know. The few traces of Guede are all over the room, and the traces of Knox and Sollecito don't count. It is almost judgement day

There are no traces of Amanda at all in that room. You can't explain it. The prosecution couldn't explain that miracle for 6 years.

There are a dozen of Guede's footprints on the floor and on the pillowcase in that room. There is his palmprint, his DNA on the purse, clothes, in Meredith's body and on her underwear.

 

[TorisMom003]

Guede could have disposed of whatever bloody clothing he had when he went to the disco after the murder.

It would have been very problematic for Sollecito if he left the country after the murder, as he had ties and commitments. The same is true of Knox. They could not vanish without immediately raising suspicion. Guede, on the other hand, did not have the same commitments and ties such that leaving town would raise suspicion.

Sure he could have. However since he did leave the country and he knew that eventually the police would find his DNA, fingerprints and footprints at the scene of the crime he would be foolish to leave things near where he went that night in Perugia.

MOO

 

[otto]

Yes I know. The few traces of Guede are all over the room, and the traces of Knox and Sollecito don't count. It is almost judgement day

A lot of people are going to breath a sign of relief when the verdict is delivered. We don't yet know whether Knox is included in that relief. I wonder what she'll do if she is found not guilty. I wonder if she'll visit the Dominican Republic.

 

[MichaelSmith]

A lot of people are going to breath a sign of relief when the verdict is delivered. We don't yet know whether Knox is included in that relief. I wonder what she'll do if she is found not guilty. I wonder if she'll visit the Dominican Republic.

The Dominican Republic has an extradition treaty with the US but Italy doesn't. Ecuador doesn't have one with the US.

Nothing is final till the SC signs off anyways and then they need to make the request and only with State Department agreeing would anything happen. Then it'll be in the US courts fighting it.

 

[otto]

Sure he could have. However since he did leave the country and he knew that eventually the police would find his DNA, fingerprints and footprints at the scene of the crime he would be foolish to leave things near where he went that night in Perugia.

MOO

Guede left the country the day after the murder. Knox was set to leave the country on November 6 with her mother escorting her to Germany, and then back to Seattle. Shortly before her mother set foot in Italy, Knox was arrested. Sollecito didn't really have much choice, but neither did Patrick Lumumba. Sollecito couldn't run without drawing serious attention from his father, and Patrick didn't run because had no idea that he could be implicated in the murder.

The night of the Memorial, when Sollecito and Knox walked, had pizza at his friend's apartment and went to the police station, what did they talk about? Did they talk about their long term futures, his upcoming graduation and dinner with his father, the fact that he was moving away at the end of the month (is that in the movie???). Did they know that she was leaving in the morning? Did they know that the jig was up and that this night might be the night that they had to reveal that they were untruthful about the timeline on the night of the murder? They were untruthful about the time that they ate, and the time that they woke up.

By the time Guede was in Germany, he knew that the trash had probably been emptied and he was partially getting away with the murder. His fingerprints at the scene of the crime were used to identify him prior to his arrest in Germany. The Skype call was to find out where he was.

 

[otto]

The Dominican Republic has an extradition treaty with the US but Italy doesn't. Ecuador doesn't have one with the US.

Nothing is final till the SC signs off anyways and then they need to make the request and only with State Department agreeing would anything happen. Then it'll be in the US courts fighting it.

Sollecito is safe in the Dominican Republic. Knox has bigger problems because of her conviction, but I'm sure that Ecuador would accept someone fleeing the law. How big are the spiders in Ecuador?

I don't think the Supreme Court can repeatedly return the verdict for further consideration. That has already happened once. If the Judge, prosecutor and defense can't get it right second time around, the books should be closed with the SC confirming the lower court's decision. EHRC can take it up from there, but I don't think that Knox has a leg to stand on.

It won't be the US fighting the extradition. It will be Knox attempting to use US law in Italy to avoid extradition.

 

[otto]

Do you have something better to do tonight instead? LOL If not, go for it.

The lists of evidence that are posted here are often copied from other websites. They often have a slant, or are skewed, such that an agenda is portrayed.

I think it's better to use our imaginations ... like, can a rock really turn 90 degrees to the left and veer under the chair/desk after hitting a window where the glass did not turn 90 degrees to the left?

 

[TorisMom003]

The lists of evidence that are posted here are often copied from other websites. They often have a slant, or are skewed, such that an agenda is portrayed.

I think it's better to use our imaginations ... like, can a rock really turn 90 degrees to the left and veer under the chair/desk after hitting a window where the glass did not turn 90 degrees to the left?

BBM

The bolded part is not true. At least two pieces of glass did go in the same direction as the rock. I have posted a picture before showing this, however I will post it again.

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/PhotoGallery3.html

 

[aa9511]

Are there really statistics on burglars turn rapist/killers? I thought pranks happen all the time? Knox certainly done it before.

Reminds me a bit of the latest McCann theory. Burglars supposedly took Madeleine. I don't see why burglars would do such a thing. They usually run away.

In this case we just give Guide an MO of stealing laptops...eeehh..throwing rocks based on possession of a stolen laptop, and somehow it makes more sense that a burglar would murder instead of a prank gone wrong.

Doesn't make any sense to me. Murder just doesn't make sense. JMO.

Yes, Sherlockh, ITA. ITA with all of the above. Thank you for wording it so well.

People act like it's no big stretch to go from dummy "burglar" breaking into places to mainly eat food and act like he lives there - to suddenly making him out to be a serial killer-type with lust for murder, for the gore of stabbing, for blood, and for rape.

I'm not saying it's not possible, but I am saying that it's a stretch. Not as much of a stretch as it is for Amanda and Raffaele, yes I admit that. But still a stretch.

I really think that what happened for all 3 in this case was that it was an accident to begin with. That no 3 of them had propensity for such violence. I think it was an accident that happened during their prank, maybe something such as the scenario Otto laid out last week.

Once the accident happened, they resorted to making terrible terrible decisions in the aftermath, out of fear, panic, etc.. Out of sheer desperation. The only thing in their possession to, sorry to be crude, but "finish her off" were their knives which is what caused the accident to begin with.

It could have been something like - she accidentally got very badly wounded with a knife. So there was already one knife wound. If they had stopped at that point and "finish her off" by suffocating her or some other means, it would have looked more like an accident. Maybe they (panickedly) talked over it right then, amongst the three of them. That they had no choice but to make it look like a "buglary gone wrong" at that point - they had to stab her more to make it look like someone came in and raped and killed her.

In that scenario, Rudy could have been a part of the decision on how to "finsh her" and the decision to stage the burglary. They could have "finsihed" the stabbing, he was nervous and ran away and let Amanda and RS deal with the rest.

In that situation, they are all 3 very very terrible people, but not evil. It is easier to believe this for all 3 of them, IMO.

 

[otto]

BBM

The bolded part is not true. At least two pieces of glass did go in the same direction as the rock. I have posted a picture before showing this, however I will post it again.

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/PhotoGallery3.html

Some glass turned left, some glass continued on the original trajectory of the rock, some glass was tapped out of the window using the small hammer (like the one found on buses) and laid on the exterior window ledge (explaining the glass on the window ledge), and none of the glass fell to the ground; not a single shard, while the drunk/stoned (prone to aggressiveness towards women when D/S) man scaled a shear stone wall in the rain to commit a burglary ... and then he forgot about the burglary and instead violently, brutally murdered Meredith Kercher as she prepared for her university examinations, causing 43 injuries with two knives from two different directions and little in terms of defensive wounds.

 

[MichaelSmith]

The website www.themurderofmeredithkercher.com is on par with a North Korean propaganda site.

Under Volturno, Oreste witness summary they have him searching Raffaele's apartment on the 8th when it was the 6th and says he went to Bari to investigate a tip off Raffaele had attacked a girl with scissors. It further states " Sollecito's middle school records were available and they showed a record of discipline problems."

When the truth is someone approached him saying there was a scissors incident at the school involving an unnamed girl and Raffaele's name wasn't mentioned. It was just an incident at school involving unnamed people.

And the record of discipline problems amounted to this:

Maori: For example “Sollecito plays with his pen despite having been told off about it?”
Maori: Another note “Sollecito throws paper ball at class mates”?

 

[MichaelSmith]

But remember his comment about black man found black man guilty or something like that?

If he felt that way, wouldn't he be better of just sticking by his story of not taking part in the murder and leaving himself distant from that?

It doesn't help him in any way to implicate AK and RS because that creates more questions as to what actually happened.

It's sort of like AK claiming to not remember what happened, IMO.

Other than November 5-6 where does she claim not to remember what happened?

He played the race card which is what he did after getting kicked out of the nightclub Cristian Tramontano worked out. Seems like he just slipped that into his story along with using a chair to fight off the mystery Italian killer which he also got from breaking into Tramontano's place.