Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL* #2

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  • #801
See my post above (or read the note for yourself). Otto is misrepresenting the note.

So would you, an innocent person, be that okay with someone throwing you in jail while they do an investigation to see if you're guilty or not guilty? FOR UP TO A YEAR!! While they just, you know, investigate. No big deal, you know you're innocent, so maybe after as long as a year, they're gonna let you out anyway.

No, for a minute there I thought I had read it completely wrong. Then I re-read it...nope. I would NOT be okay with that if I was an innocent person. UP TO A YEAR! It did not say one day, two days, three days, maybe even five days. It said up to one year.

No one would read that and be calm and ok with it.
 
  • #802
The cherry-picking that is required to provide proof of AK's and RS' guilt (beginning with the prosecutor) is extraordinary.

"I wasn't there" is the same thing as "I didn't have anything to do with this."

Geeze, Louise!

Nova, I'm not talking about evidence that can be presented in court. I'm speaking here as a human being and member of society. "I wasn't there" is not the same thing as "I didn't have anything to do with this," in the context of how it's said and why it's said. I cannot go over each word and try to explain....it's just a feeling I got when I heard her say it with Diane Sawyer, and a feeling, maybe you can say instinct, I got when I read what she wrote.
 
  • #803
I didn't mean I thought their crimes were similar--
 
  • #804
BBM: much as I might love to share a meal with you, please don't invite me to your house for dinner. Apparently, you don't clean your knife blades very thoroughly. (This is just a joke.)

People touch knife blades for various reasons, when cleaning them and when picking them out of a crowded drawer. That DNA would be left is hardly surprising.
You leave DNA by scrubbing off skin cells from touching a rough surface. There is no reason to leave DNA on a flat smooth knife blade unless you cut yourself. Try sneezing.
 
  • #805
Nova, you subconciously wrote what an innocent person would really write - unless they can prove me innocent. That is how a real innocent person would write.

Do you notice that Amanda did not say it like that? She wrote "only if they can't prove that I did or did not do it."

It's hard to describe in words exactly what is not right with that portion of her statement. It's just not how an innocent person would have phrased things and written things - IMO. MOO.

Btw I know this is not "evidence," but I don't care how right or wrong I am - that's the way I feel when I read what she wrote - that she's not innocent.
Well spotted. I imagine I ask a kid if he/she did do something bad and I get that kind of answer. I am not sure how there can be any doubt. She practically gave that one away.
 
  • #806
You leave DNA by scrubbing off skin cells from touching a rough surface. There is no reason to leave DNA on a flat smooth knife blade unless you cut yourself. Try sneezing.

There are any number of ways that someone's DNA can be left somewhere. Isn't sneezing one of them?
 
  • #807
You may have misunderstood what I wrote. A species-specific test refers to a test for blood, not for DNA. I would like to see another case where someone made a successful claim that he or she can tell how a knife was used by where the DNA was found on the handle. That argument sounds fanciful at best. It is remarkable how many false or illogical arguments the court of supreme cassation managed to stuff into their report.

I agree. It is incredible to me that anyone would argue that Amanda's DNA on a particuliar location on the knife suggests that the knife was used in a particuliar way - specifically as a murder weapon. If that is an example of the reasoning that is required to believe Amanda is a murderess color me unconvinced.
 
  • #808
There are any number of ways that someone's DNA can be left somewhere. Isn't sneezing one of them?
Yes, that is why I suggested it. She rubbed some of her DNA on the handle, and sneezed her and Meredith's DNA on the blade while cooking. Or maybe her boyfriend sneezed Knox's and Meredith's DNA since he claimed to have been the one cooking. Then there is starch DNA by the handle from cutting tomatoes that proves the blade was never cleaned even though her boyfriend was doing dishes that day, and in case it was cleaned then it is impossible that any DNA was left. So basically knives can not be murder weapons. It is that simple.
 
  • #809
I agree. It is incredible to me that anyone would argue that Amanda's DNA on a particuliar location on the knife suggests that the knife was used in a particuliar way - specifically as a murder weapon. If that is an example of the reasoning that is required to believe Amanda is a murderess color me unconvinced.

Regarding the DNA, we have two samples that are a serious concern, and additional samples that support the allegation that Knox/Sollecito participated in the murder.

DNA on the blade of the knife was analyzed and is consistent with Meredith's DNA. The defense arguments have been that because it is low copy number DNA, the sample should be omitted and, if it is a legitimate match, the sample was on the knife due to contamination. LCN DNA is how the sample size was described using older testing methods in 2007. Today, it is possible to analyze much smaller samples with accurate results. That, in itself, should negate any concerns regarding sample size.

DNA on the clasp is consistent with Sollecito's DNA. The defense argument has been that the DNA on the clasp is a result of contamination, or it should be omitted because there is evidence of more than one person on the clasp.

Knox's DNA was found in Meredith's blood and the defense argument is that Knox stepped in bleach or fruit pulp, not Meredith's blood, and left footprints at Meredith's door, in the hallway and on a piece of glass in Filomina's bedroom.

Knox's blood was mixed with Meredth's blood and was found in the sink. The defense argument is that her ear bled from piercings and landed right on top of Meredith's blood.

In each case, where there is evidence of Knox/Sollecito participation in the murder, we have a different type of excuse. At the same time, evidence of Guede's DNA is accepted as clear proof that Guede was involved - no conspiracy or contamination discussion. Bloody footprints in the hallway from Guede are accepted as footprints in blood - no bleach or fruit pulp discussion.

Essentially, investigative techniques used to gather evidence that implicates Guede were completed according to protocols and there were no errors, but the same techniques used to gather evidence that implicates Sollecito/Knox, per the defense, failed repeatedly.

Now we have additional evidence that Knox handled the alleged murder weapon. The defense will argue that, even though Knox claimed that Sollecito cooked for her and Sollecito claimed that he cut Meredith's hand while they were cooking at his apartment, Knox in fact cooked for Sollecito and she handled the knife as a "chef", which resulted in her DNA at an unusual location on the top of the knife blade.

In the words of Shakespeare: "The lady doth protest too much, methinks."
 
  • #810
Gotta say, way back when so many thread ago, I first began looking at this case, DNA was being discussed and discussed...
Ironic that when I come back to see what's now happening, DNA is still being bandied around.... so be it... there are so many areas that can be discussed and dissected..

What I've been thinking about lately is AK's actions on the days that followed Meredith's salvage murder...

Where did AK go to live, as LE must have sealed off the cottage... what bugs me is if I were a young woman and a flatmate had just been murdered, I'd be very scared. Not knowing who/why someone living very close me had just been murdered I'd be fearing for my own life. I would want to leave Italy and get back home to safety... even if my mother did not tell me to leave, I be calling her an planing how to leave...
 
  • #811
Where did AK go to live, as LE must have sealed off the cottage... what bugs me is if I were a young woman and a flatmate had just been murdered, I'd be very scared. Not knowing who/why someone living very close me had just been murdered I'd be fearing for my own life. I want to leave Italy and get back home to safety...

In the days immediately after the murder, Amanda spent most of her time at the police station. She was interviewed until the wee hours of the morning every night, got a few hours of sleep at Raffaele's place, only to be called back to the police station the next day. She attended classes on Nov. 4, but that was the only time she was not with Raffaele or at the police station. Yes, she was scared and had every right to be. Her roommate had been murdered and the culprit was still at large.
 
  • #812
You leave DNA by scrubbing off skin cells from touching a rough surface. There is no reason to leave DNA on a flat smooth knife blade unless you cut yourself. Try sneezing.
Not only sneezing, but even just speaking can leave low template number DNA. Here is a link to touch DNA from forensic magazine. It was written by someone in the field who writes clearly about technical matters. An earlier article by the same author on the same subject is here, and one on secondary and tertiary transfer is here. How did Lukis Anderson's DNA get onto the fingernails of a murder victim? He was almost comotose from having drunk too much alcohol at the time of the murder.

The reported sensitivities of TMB range between 10,000 and 1,000,000. The reported sensitivity of the particular TMB test that Conti and Vecchiotti used is at least 300,000. There was no blood on the knife.
 
  • #813
Gotta say, way back when so many thread ago, I first began looking at this case, DNA was being discussed and discussed...
Ironic that when I come back to see what's now happening, DNA is still being bandied around.... so be it... there are so many areas that can be discussed and dissected..

What I've been thinking about lately is AK's actions on the days that followed Meredith's salvage murder...

Where did AK go to live, as LE must have sealed off the cottage... what bugs me is if I were a young woman and a flatmate had just been murdered, I'd be very scared. Not knowing who/why someone living very close me had just been murdered I'd be fearing for my own life. I would want to leave Italy and get back home to safety... even if my mother did not tell me to leave, I be calling her an planing how to leave...
She told Patrick on 5 November that she could not work for him any longer because she was afraid [perhaps of being out at night].
 
  • #814
Gotta say, way back when so many thread ago, I first began looking at this case, DNA was being discussed and discussed...
Ironic that when I come back to see what's now happening, DNA is still being bandied around.... so be it... there are so many areas that can be discussed and dissected..

What I've been thinking about lately is AK's actions on the days that followed Meredith's salvage murder...

Where did AK go to live, as LE must have sealed off the cottage... what bugs me is if I were a young woman and a flatmate had just been murdered, I'd be very scared. Not knowing who/why someone living very close me had just been murdered I'd be fearing for my own life. I would want to leave Italy and get back home to safety... even if my mother did not tell me to leave, I be calling her an planing how to leave...

Some of Meredith's friends did exactly that: they left Italy and returned to England. Knox, on the other hand, stated that she wanted to help the police solve the murder. She stayed at Sollecito's apartment after the murder.

Either the day of the murder, or within a day or two of the murder, Knox contacted Filomina and expected that she would share another apartment with her. Filomina was immediately suspicious of Knox, perhaps because Knox claimed that Meredith routinely locked her bedroom door and it didn't need to be broken by police - that was not true. The statement also contradicted the fact that Sollecito and Knox had tried to break Meredith's door at some point before Filomina arrived - perhaps they had already thrown away the keys and wanted to retrieve Knox's lamp. We need to keep in mind that Knox and Sollecito were surprised by the arrival of the Postal police, it's not that they called police because of the broken window, blood and inability to contact Meredith. Filomina immediately distanced herself from Knox.

Knox phoned her mother before Meredith's body had been found and Eda, Knox's mother, immediately made plans to go to Perugia. That in itself seems unusual ... that the mother would drop everything, take a leave of absence from work, and fly to Perugia instead of Knox immediately getting on a plane and going home. Knox was attending a couple of non-transferable language classes, so leaving Perugia would not have made any difference to her post-secondary studies. In a way, I think that the murder didn't really phase Knox ("she f-ing bled to death", "I could kill for a pizza", canoodling, lingerie shopping, cartwheels at the police station, false accusations against an innocent man, and so much more).
 
  • #815
She told Patrick on 5 November that she could not work for him any longer because she was afraid [perhaps of being out at night].

She told police on November 6 that she was very afraid of Patrick. Knox stated in court during the trial that she was not afraid of Guede.
 
  • #816
In the days immediately after the murder, Amanda spent most of her time at the police station. She was interviewed until the wee hours of the morning every night, got a few hours of sleep at Raffaele's place, only to be called back to the police station the next day. She attended classes on Nov. 4, but that was the only time she was not with Raffaele or at the police station. Yes, she was scared and had every right to be. Her roommate had been murdered and the culprit was still at large.

In the days after the murder, Meredith's friends, acquaintances and roommates were all questioned several times. None of them provided a signed statement containing false accusations after one hour and fifteen minutes, or claimed that police bopped them on the head. Knox attended classes, spent time with Sollecito's friends, went lingerie shopping, avoided the Memorial and tagged along with Sollecito to the police station in the days following the murder.

It is also important to note that Knox's alibi was falling apart in the days after the murder. She repeatedly lied to police and, when the lie was revealed, she fell back on the "I was stoned and drunk and don't remember a thing" excuse. Because Knox repeatedly lied to police about her timeline on the night of the murder, police had no choice but to ask her for additional information. It is often suggested that poor innocent Knox was required to answer questions for no reason ... but the reason for this is because she could not give a straight answer.
 
  • #817
Was AK aware of her new boyfriend's interest in knives, CMIIW but didn't he have a rather gruesome one hung over his bed?
How conversant was she with him at that time... wouldn't that bother a person, or be concerning if one's roommate had just been brutally stabbed to death and the new BF of whom you know little about has a thing for knives - that was even called an obsession --
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...Kercher-trial-Raffaele-Sollecito-profile.html
 
  • #818
Not only sneezing, but even just speaking can leave low template number DNA. Here is a link to touch DNA from forensic magazine. It was written by someone in the field who writes clearly about technical matters. An earlier article by the same author on the same subject is here, and one on secondary and tertiary transfer is here. How did Lukis Anderson's DNA get onto the fingernails of a murder victim? He was almost comotose from having drunk too much alcohol at the time of the murder.

The reported sensitivities of TMB range between 10,000 and 1,000,000. The reported sensitivity of the particular TMB test that Conti and Vecchiotti used is at least 300,000. There was no blood on the knife.

Hello Chris, good to have you here!!
In addition to your scientific articles I found this:

The presence of DNA with a profile matching that found on an item does not necessarily show that the person ever had direct contact with the item. “It has also been shown that a full profile can be recovered from secondary transfer of epithelial cells (from one individual to another and subsequently to an object) at 28 cycles [the standard method].”3
“The full DNA profile of one individual was recovered from an item that they had not touched while the profile of the person having contact with that item was not observed. This profile was also detected using standard 28-cycle amplification.”

http://www.theforensicinstitute.com/PDF/Continuity and contamination.pdf
 
  • #819
Was AK aware of her new boyfriend's interest in knives, CMIIW but didn't he have a rather gruesome one hung over his bed?
How conversant was she with him at that time... wouldn't that bother a person, or be concerning if one's roommate had just been brutally stabbed to death and the new BF of whom you know little about has a thing for knives - that was even called an obsession --
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...Kercher-trial-Raffaele-Sollecito-profile.html

Given Knox's conduct after arriving in Europe, I think it could be said that she wanted to live a wild, risky and callous lifestyle. I think it is also clear that Knox gravitated towards illegal drug users. She met Sollecito after making eye contact with him at a classical music event that Meredith attended (Knox tagged along). By the end of the evening, she had laid the foundations for moving in with him. I suspect that the drugs and knives were all part of the excitement for Knox.
 
  • #820
Knox's state of mind prior to the murder:

"But Knox, writing [on her myspace page] under the name Foxy Knoxy, also reveals a different side to her character with a series of short stories - one concerns a stalker and another talks about the drugging and rape of a young woman.

... Knox gave an alibi to police but in the four days after the killing, it allegedly began to crumble"

07 Nov 2007
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1568639/Amanda-Knox-wrote-stories-about-rape.html
 
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