Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL*#7

[MichaelSmith]

What if Patrick did not have an alibi?

Although Knox admitted to her mother that she was a liar (probably nothing new to her mother), both her mother and she remained silent until the prosecutor's office independently proved that Patrick was innocent.

From Patrick to Mr Lumumba in two posts?

Why did they arrest him without investigating and hold him without evidence?

Btw, the latest issue of Oggi has some information about his lawyer being under investigation for fraud, slander and cheating a client.

 

[SMK]

I doubt this is true of Italian law, but in the U.S. that could be conspiracy to commit a felony or something along those lines, which would then be felony murder. If you go in to a store to rob it with a friend and the friend kills someone and you had no idea he was that crazy, you can still be charged with murder, and many have.

Thanks; right, I was taking it from cases like that. You are charged with murder if something criminal you organized ends in murder.

 

[Katody]

In other news, Amanda posted full transcript of recent Crini's closing arguments.

http://www.amandaknox.com/2013/12/04/crinis-closing-arguments/

Pacelli (Lumumba's lawyer) is also there, with some interesting quotes from telephone interceptions.
Did you know that the cops started recording and listening to Amanda's phone calls at least as early as November 3, the day after discovering the murder?

 

[MichaelSmith]

In other news, Amanda posted full transcript of recent Crini's closing arguments.

http://www.amandaknox.com/2013/12/04/crinis-closing-arguments/

Pacelli (Lumumba's lawyer) is also there, with some interesting quotes from telephone interceptions.
Did you know that the cops started recording and listening to Amanda's phone calls at least as early as November 3, the day after discovering the murder?

I'm just reading Pacelli's diatribe. He outright lies about the cell towers re the texts.

 

[MichaelSmith]

Pacelli page 174 lying again about Amanda knowing Meredith had been raped when that infomation was all over the media before November 5.....Laura also knew this like anyone else following the news.

 

[Katody]

What if Patrick did not have an alibi?

Although Knox admitted to her mother that she was a liar (probably nothing new to her mother), both her mother and she remained silent until the prosecutor's office independently proved that Patrick was innocent.

I think that the investigators became aware Lumumba is innocent as soon as someone bothered to check his phone for the contents of the sms he sent to Amanda. they realized he wasn't setting up a meeting to kill Meredith, but really wrote "don't come to work".

From that moment on it was all about saving face at all costs. it's quite possible that only the international notoriety of the case saved Lumumba from having a 'fatal accident' in Capanne.

Of course the investigators knew that Amanda immediately made a written retraction on November 7 while in prison, they were also listening on the prison conversation of the 10th of November. They were aware of the dozens of people that came forward giving Patrick alibi. Even the Swiss professor who came at his own cost and initiative and insisted on being heard didn't sway them. There was no way back after their triumphal announcement "case closed".

They released Patrick only when they finally had Guede and a plan was ready how to spin the initial fiasco as only Amanda's fault. It was the little witch who with her cartwheels and hip swivels glamoured the brave cops into arresting an innocent.

 

[MichaelSmith]

Page 181 - the fix is in Nov 5. confirmed by Giobbi who had everything ready to go that night. Amanda was never just a witness before the 1.45am statement.

Telephone in the interception of the day November 05

2007 at 18:19 hours, between Amanda and Anny Fuller, is the following account: Amanda: "I have spent all day to the police station. " Interlocutor: "Good heavens! As did they treat you? " Amanda: "Yesterday was very difficult, because when I went to the police station I was asked questions and when I answered they told me:

"You're lying? Are you sure you're not lying? Why if you're lying cast thee into trouble. " Here you are. I have brought back to the house and they wanted esaminassi all the knives to see if anyone was missing. And the only the fact of being in the house scared me to death, not to mention the fact of having to browse knives. "

 

[Allusonz]

Prosecutor Crini mentioned it. The document of the negative controls was deposited with the court. The raw data was available on the machine. I don't know what else was the problem. Maybe Bongiorno will explain it later.
http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index...rosecutor_alessandro_crini_proposes_30_years/

This is a complete misrepresentation of of the events and is FALSE.

C & V had requested that all documentation be given to them, and when it was not they had to go back to the court to request it. When Comodi and Stephanoni stated they had been deposited the negative controls with the Court, Hellmann adjourned and went in search of them. When court resumed he informed C & V that they were not in the files.

Comodi and Stephanoni then again tried to mislead the court, by stating they had been found, only to again be caught in their deception when the numbers did not match.

This is all documented in the proceedings and was widely reported.

 

[Allusonz]

Lets us as well correct another mantra that the cottage had been sealed and no one had been in the cottage prior to the collection of the bra clasp.

John Douglas was asked to review all the documents and PLE were in the cottage SIXTEEN times prior to the bra clasp being collected. This was an interview done for an Italian paper, in which the paper felt they could not publish it.

"The video taken on November 2nd shows the bra clasp, very clearly on the floor of the crime scene. On December 18th, after already returning to the scene more than 16 times, the video shows the bra clasp, still there. It had already been kicked and shuffled around on the floor for six weeks. Secondly, the amount of DNA, supposedly, that was Sollecito’s is highly suspect. "


JD: No. They began to panic when the evidence returned and didn’t match up to the other two; it was all going to Guede. Instead, they returned, over and over to the crime scene, even six weeks later – what was it? Why do you have to go back? Did you miss something? Did you get some new lead? Did you develop something in the lab, and now you have to find it? No. They had to go back because they were looking for something, anything, to fit their theory. "



http://www.sciencespheres.com/

 

[Allusonz]

Let there be no mistake. PLE were looking for a particular person due to the hair that was found. This is once again from the interview with John Douglas.

JD: The police knew that they had negroid hairs at the crime scene. The interrogation tactics were used to have Amanda say what the police wanted. You get people to confess under this psychological torture.

From the same interview which is well worth the read for any interested.



http://www.sciencespheres.com/

 

[Allusonz]

It's so easy to get sucked into the minutia of footprints in the bedroom, even if they were wiped away after 12 hours.

Before and after photos are intended to convince peope that the prosecution is incompetent. The photos are intended to demonstate that the proseuction OOPS lost the footprints. What the heck is behind that rumor? Anyways, mayby it was procedural to clean up the footprints and maybe bloody footprints deteriorate over time.

If Mr Lumumba had not been independently alibied, what would have happened? Amanda Knox and Edda Mellas, her mother, remained silent about Knox's admission on November 10 (eight days after the false accusations against Mr Lumumba and arrest) that she lied about Mr Lumumba. Her letters of November 6 and 7 stand behind, and claim she is not lying, regarding the false accusation against Mr Lumumba.

Nothing was WIPED. There are numerous scientific experts from around the world putting their reputation within the scientific community in jeopardy. There is not a chance that this great number of highly respected individuals would go to these extremes as some would like others to think. It seems that when the facts cannot be argued, instead the reputations of the experts are attacked.

This is a falacy that continues to be repeated without any basis in fact or represented by the luminol.

Once again, one simply cannot walk into a crime scene and selectively wipe up DNA which is invisible to the naked eye. It is IMPOSSIBLE.

 

[Allusonz]

Ok, I was thinking of this Amanda DNA thing.

Now, the argument is well, Amanda's DNA just happened to be in those exact spots that they collected, because well, her DNA was all over place because she lived there.

Then why weren't Laura or Filomena's DNA found in some samples? They lived there, too. In at least a few of them, shouldn't have their DNA be there, too, especially in Filomena's own room? I know their DNA supposedly wasn't taken, but even so, those samples should have then been "unidentified." Someone's DNA is there, but that person is not identifiable. Instead, it was Amanda's DNA. How does Amanda's DNA show up in an "unidentifiable person's" DNA? For all the numerous complicated DNA analysis I have seen on here, I don't think I've heard this simple question be acknowledged since I've been on here.

No one has ever seemed to take this simple fact into consideration, as far as I've seen from the arguments.

It's always, Amanda's DNA has a reason to be there (other than she was there during the murder).

All 4 roomates lived there. If the theory that DNA is everywhere is correct, the other roomates (or 3 of them) should have been equally represented in the house, DNA-wise. I'm leaving Meredith out because her DNA was already in almost everything due to the blood, so we couldn't have determined whether some of her DNA was in the house from the "everywhere' theory or not.

Same goes with the luminol footprints. f the Luminol supposedly reacted to something other than blood, the other 3 roomates' footprints did not show up under Luminol, even though they lived there, too. Only Amanda's.

I was thinking of this when I was just thinking about this whole issue, thinking I wish there was a control house somewhere where they could do experiments on how the occupants' DNA is found.

THen I thought.....wait, there are already controls built into this house.....Laura and Filomena.

Probably because Laura and Filomena contacted their lawyers immediately, thus I am quite certain they were advised on what they would/would not say or do.

Neither AK or RS lawyered up within hours of the discovery.

 

[Allusonz]

No reference DNA from Laura or Filomena were taken. No reference footprints from Laura or Filomena were taken. Meredith shared a bathroom with Amanda, not with Laura or Filomena. The FP were obviously focused on blood. If Rudy had cleaned up in the large bathroom, one might find mixed DNA from Laura and/or Filomena (if their reference profiles were taken). One of the samples from Filomena's room has some extra alleles (Rep. 176 or 177); it is possible that Filomena is the donor.

The footprints in the hall do not have distinguishing marks and the luminol was overapplied, leading to dilation; therefore, I do not see how one can claim that the footprints must come from any one woman, Amanda or someone else. At least one of the footprints in Amanda's room (Rep. 180) has no mark where Amanda's second toe is, but it has a mark below it. If this is not Amanda's footprint, then the whole premise that it is blood that is reacting with luminol is called into question.

Just to add to this excellent reply.

AK's one toe was longer than her big toe which was not known by PLE in the beginning. Just like they did not realize the RS could not of possibly left an imprint from one toe.

 

[SMK]

Probably because Laura and Filomena contacted their lawyers immediately, thus I am quite certain they were advised on what they would/would not say or do.

Neither AK or RS lawyered up within hours of the discovery.

I find this strange. I guess I am naive, but if I knew I had nothing to do with it, I would not get an attorney - unless I had no alibi and was accused. Is this because they worked in law offices?

 

[Amber29]

I find this strange. I guess I am naive, but if I knew I had nothing to do with it, I would not get an attorney - unless I had no alibi and was accused. Is this because they worked in law offices?

Filomena or Laura I can't remember which or both worked for a lawyer. Makes perfect sense to me.

 

[Amber29]

Let there be no mistake. PLE were looking for a particular person due to the hair that was found. This is once again from the interview with John Douglas.

JD: The police knew that they had negroid hairs at the crime scene. The interrogation tactics were used to have Amanda say what the police wanted. You get people to confess under this psychological torture.

From the same interview which is well worth the read for any interested.



http://www.sciencespheres.com/

I don't remember any hairs coming back as RG. Did they find his hair at the crime scene?

 

[Allusonz]

I think all of that becomes more feasible if you factor drug use in. Normally, I wouldn't think such an escalation could proceed that far unhindered by a sense of boundaries or common sense.

Let me see if I understand this train of thought.

The only drug they tested positive for was cannibas, yet I am to believe that 3 people, without any evidence of one ever meeting the other, were able to take directives from AK who was not fluent in Italian, over feces in a toilet?

It sounds too much like Mignini, consulting his psychic in 2 cases, where she came up with a satanic theme.

 

[Allusonz]

I don't remember any hairs coming back as RG. Did they find his hair at the crime scene?

I don't believe John Douglas stated that they did. Please read what he stated in his replies. In fact the entire article is well worth the read.

 

[Amber29]

In other news, Amanda posted full transcript of recent Crini's closing arguments.

http://www.amandaknox.com/2013/12/04/crinis-closing-arguments/

Pacelli (Lumumba's lawyer) is also there, with some interesting quotes from telephone interceptions.
Did you know that the cops started recording and listening to Amanda's phone calls at least as early as November 3, the day after discovering the murder?

It's too bad they are in Italian, I'm not interested in machine translations. Too many mistakes and wrong words used. Although I would love to know if the tweets from the courtroom were lies like was insinuated.

 

[Allusonz]

Websleuths needs it own version of Godwin's Law with Jodi/Juan taking the place of Hitler/Nazis.:seeya:

Could not agree more !