Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL*#7

[TorisMom003]

While looking at some photos I had not seen before I found something interesting. There was a foldable drying rack that was in the hallway of the cottage. I found photos that showed what the hallway looked like before the police searched and moved things around and then a photo of the hallway after they moved things around. It was after police moved things around into the hallway that the luminol testing was done.

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/PhotoGallery3.html

Hallway photos are at link above.

ETA: The photos also show that each of the girls had a throw rug in their bedrooms. I know it was discussed earlier about maybe the throw rug in Meredith's room being from the hall but based on the photos of the other bedrooms I would conclude that each had their own rugs in their own room.

 

[otto]

While looking at some photos I had not seen before I found something interesting. There was a foldable drying rack that was in the hallway of the cottage. I found photos that showed what the hallway looked like before the police searched and moved things around and then a photo of the hallway after they moved things around. It was after police moved things around into the hallway that the luminol testing was done.

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/PhotoGallery3.html

Hallway photos are at link above.

Filomina talked about the clothes drying rack in her testimony. It blocks the French doors to the patio, and would have made it very difficult for anyone to be in the hallway looking into the bedroom when the door was broken.

 

[Sigh Sister]

I tried altering the color to see if that line would take on the appearance of glass, or change color, but I can't make out if it's a string or glass.

(ref: same as upthread when image first posted)

Thanks for trying. I do think it is a metal stand now, though. If you look at evidence marker H in the pic I posted, you can see the same metal stand.

 

[TorisMom003]

Filomina talked about the clothes drying rack in her testimony. It blocks the French doors to the patio, and would have made it very difficult for anyone to be in the hallway looking into the bedroom when the door was broken.

I was thinking more along the lines of cleaning agents being on the wet clothes that were in the hallway and then bare feet stepping into the water on the floor. Also since the luminol testing was not done until after the bedroom items had been shoved into the hallway by police there is the possibility of transfer that way as well.

MOO

 

[Sigh Sister]

I was thinking more along the lines of cleaning agents being on the wet clothes that were in the hallway and then bare feet stepping into the water on the floor. Also since the luminol testing was not done until after the bedroom items had been shoved into the hallway by police there is the possibility of transfer that way as well.

MOO

They didn't do the luminol testing until AFTER the items were moved into the hallway??

Good thinking about the wet clothes dripping.

 

[otto]

I was thinking more along the lines of cleaning agents being on the wet clothes that were in the hallway and then bare feet stepping into the water on the floor. Also since the luminol testing was not done until after the bedroom items had been shoved into the hallway by police there is the possibility of transfer that way as well.

MOO

When I first heard that luminol was applied a few weeks after the murder, I researched the reasons for the delay. Apparently, luminol was applied at the optimal time for revealing blood - that's how I remember it.

It seems to me that the prints were made at the time of the murder, and personally, I would rule out iron rich water, bleach in the shower and a fruit pulp spill because only Knox's prints are revealed with the luminol. If water, bleach, or fruit was the cause of the prints, all four roommates would have left similar prints.

If there anything else that could be a factor? For example, did Knox and Sollecito put bleach on their water spill, did Knox walk in that bleach, did she then go home to shower? Did she use bleach and mop up the spill barefoot at Sollecito's, then take off her shoes at the cottage and leave bleach stains in the hallway at at Meredith's bedroom door?

 

[SMK]

When I first heard that luminol was applied a few weeks after the murder, I researched the reasons for the delay. Apparently, luminol was applied at the optimal time for revealing blood - that's how I remember it.

It seems to me that the prints were made at the time of the murder, and personally, I would rule out iron rich water, bleach in the shower and a fruit pulp spill because only Knox's prints are revealed with the luminol. If water, bleach, or fruit was the cause of the prints, all four roommates would have left similar prints.

If there anything else that could be a factor? For example, did Knox and Sollecito put bleach on their water spill, did Knox walk in that bleach, did she then go home to shower? Did she use bleach and mop up the spill barefoot at Sollecito's, then take off her shoes at the cottage and leave bleach stains in the hallway at at Meredith's bedroom door?

You have to consider that there may have been these factors. But I think what is odd, is that none of the bare footprints tested with luminol tested positive for Meredith's DNA. This is troubling.

 

[Sigh Sister]

When I first heard that luminol was applied a few weeks after the murder, I researched the reasons for the delay. Apparently, luminol was applied at the optimal time for revealing blood - that's how I remember it.

It seems to me that the prints were made at the time of the murder, and personally, I would rule out iron rich water, bleach in the shower and a fruit pulp spill because only Knox's prints are revealed with the luminol. If water, bleach, or fruit was the cause of the prints, all four roommates would have left similar prints.

If there anything else that could be a factor? For example, did Knox and Sollecito put bleach on their water spill, did Knox walk in that bleach, did she then go home to shower? Did she use bleach and mop up the spill barefoot at Sollecito's, then take off her shoes at the cottage and leave bleach stains in the hallway at at Meredith's bedroom door?

This link to a book on google says to wait a day or two, but that degradation of the blood cells will only enhance the reaction. So you are correct. Waiting to apply luminol 2 weeks later is ok. Dragging all the stuff in the hallway does seem to be a problem though.

http://books.google.com/books?id=xL...page&q=optimal time for using luminol&f=false

 

[Katody]

My understanding is that there are more prints from one shoe than the other, and that there is no print trail from the blood to the prints near the end of the bed (near the door).

I don't think the prints near the bed can be put in order to form a trail. They are chaotic.

The trail of Guede's shoeprints in the hallway was also made by just one foot. Can't tell from memory if left or right.

 

[Sigh Sister]

You have to consider that there may have been these factors. But I think what is odd, is that none of the bare footprints tested with luminol tested positive for Meredith's DNA. This is troubling.

I think that should put the argument to rest that she was tracking Meredith's blood.

 

[otto]

Here's an interesting fact: Although scientists in the US seem determined to tell scientists in Italy how to do their jobs, the latest ranking of countries in terms of math/science scores has Italy scoring higher than the US. In fact, it looks like scientists in Asia, Switzerland, or Canada should be advising those in the US about how to do their jobs, and that scientists in the US really are not in a position to set standards.

http://www.oecd.org/pisa/keyfindings/PISA-2012-results-US.pdf

 

[Katody]

This link to a book on google says to wait a day or two, but that degradation of the blood cells will only enhance the reaction. So you are correct. Waiting to apply luminol 2 weeks later is ok. Dragging all the stuff in the hallway does seem to be a problem though.

http://books.google.com/books?id=xL...page&q=optimal time for using luminol&f=false

An interesting fact:

When Scientifica returned to the villa in December, they found someone actually removed the bloody shoeprints in the hallway.
A lot of blood traces in the bedroom were gone, too.

 

[otto]

You have to consider that there may have been these factors. But I think what is odd, is that none of the bare footprints tested with luminol tested positive for Meredith's DNA. This is troubling.

I don't think that's a problem. I think that blood can be blood without DNA. Also, isn't there a print from Knox in Filomina's bedroom that is definitely Meredith's blood? Knox's DNA is confirmed to be mixed with the blood in that sample.

 

[Sigh Sister]

Here's an interesting fact: Although scientists in the US seem determined to tell scientists in Italy how to do their jobs, the latest ranking of countries in terms of math/science scores has Italy scoring higher than the US. In fact, it looks like scientists in Asia, Switzerland, or Canada should be advising those in the US about how to do their jobs, and that scientists in the US really are not in a position to set standards.

http://www.oecd.org/pisa/keyfindings/PISA-2012-results-US.pdf

But Stefanoni did not follow International standards. I think this has been proven.

 

[Katody]

Here's an interesting fact: Although scientists in the US seem determined to tell scientists in Italy how to do their jobs, the latest ranking of countries in terms of math/science scores has Italy scoring higher than the US. In fact, it looks like scientists in Asia, Switzerland, or Canada should be advising those in the US about how to do their jobs, and that scientists in the US really are not in a position to set standards.

http://www.oecd.org/pisa/keyfindings/PISA-2012-results-US.pdf

I don't think it's about who should set the standards. The standards of European Network of Forensic Science Institutes (ENFSI) are perfectly good.
The question is why were they not followed during the inspections and in the lab.

 

[otto]

This link to a book on google says to wait a day or two, but that degradation of the blood cells will only enhance the reaction. So you are correct. Waiting to apply luminol 2 weeks later is ok. Dragging all the stuff in the hallway does seem to be a problem though.

http://books.google.com/books?id=xL...page&q=optimal time for using luminol&f=false

Moving something over the print shouldn't alter the print.

 

[Sigh Sister]

An interesting fact:

When Scientifica returned to the villa in December, they found someone actually removed the bloody shoeprints in the hallway.
A lot of blood traces in the bedroom were gone, too.

I've never heard that before! Where did you read this?

 

[SMK]

Here is a list of all the things (which after Hellmann was overturned, I read on the Murder Wiki) which convinced me that Knox and Sollecito had some culpability and foreknowledge:

( I leave out Knox's statement and calumnia of PL as those were too familiar to me in conjunction with false confession syndrome. I also leave out kisses, cartwheels, weird talk, buying lingerie, not knowing open door and blood drops meant serious crime was committed---to me all these things are normal and not suspect)

• Bathmat print
• luminol prints
• sink blood droplets and smears
• evidence of multiple attackers
• not calling 112 until after PP arrived
• AK saying MK always locked her door
• AK first call to Mom
• MK moved and bra removed after death
• simulation of robbery
• AK having knowledge of crime she could only know if present
• AK lamp on MK floor
• Quintavalle
• email home
• mixed sample FR room

Here is the list of what is left now (after errors, mistranslations, fabrication has been ruled out) and all of these are now questionable:

• sink droplets?
• inference of multiple attackers?
• 112 calls?
• AK on locked door?
• simulation of robbery?
• AK first call to Mom?
• Quintavalle?
• AK lamp on MK floor
• email home
• mixed sample FR room

Does anyone feel they are sure of more things, or are left with more of a list? And why?

 

[otto]

But Stefanoni did not follow International standards. I think this has been proven.

Dr Stefanoni followed all protocols and she went beyond what was expected by further refining the sample. I don't know how that can be perceived as a problem.

If we are to look at international scores in terms of which countries score better in terms of math/science education, the US is way down there. From the Balding interview that I linked a couple of days ago: Sollecito is fully represented in the stain at 15 loci (we still only use 10 in the UK, so 15 is a lot). Italy still has higher standards than in the UK, where there is no criticism over DNA analysis.

 

[Katody]

I don't think that's a problem. I think that blood can be blood without DNA. Also, isn't there a print from Knox in Filomina's bedroom that is definitely Meredith's blood? Knox's DNA is confirmed to be mixed with the blood in that sample.

According to the documents it was not a print.
There is no proof it was blood either but it wouldn't surprise me if some blood and DNA was tracked all over the place during the initial inspections or the undocumented trashing that happened between the visits of Scientifica.