Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL*#7

[redheadedgal]

However:
Dr. Lalli and Dr. Liviero did believe , in their expert opinions and said in their testimony as experts, that they believed that there had to be multiple attackers. (p 370, Massei). ETA: Reading more indepth, it seems Massei is saying that taken together, some aspects (lack of defensive wounds, bruising) would lead to the inference that the crime was the work of more than one attacker.

Lalli initially told the court he also believed Kercher had been assaulted by more than one person, but under cross-examination, he said he could not rule out a single attacker, Maresca said.

http://www.king5.com/news/local/60016427.html

 

[SMK]

You mean on the inter nets? There doesn't seem to be any confusion in court.

Yes, I meant with regard to the opposing sides. And I keep forgetting that Hellmann is no longer valid. :facepalm:

 

[otto]

Here's a photo from the December inspection.
The prints are completely gone.
The picture held for comparison is from November:

photos from the case file originally posted on InjusticeInPerugia.org

Where does the piece, identified with a white square and overlaid on the second photo, fit? Using the tile grid, it simply doesn't line up.

 

[SMK]

http://www.king5.com/news/local/60016427.html

So there is no necessity of multiple attackers. It seems another chink in the argument. ETA: But maybe only seems. We shall see, I guess.

 

[SMK]

Broken glass was found in MK's room. Here is what Hellmann-Zanetti said:

It will also be recalled that the film, made by the scientific police during the inspection, reveals the presence of a glass fragment next to a footprint in Meredith’s room. Which logically leads one to conclude that the breaking of the window happened before the entry into the room of Meredith Kercher — there being no reason to suppose that after the alleged staging of the burglary, carried out to divert suspicions about responsibility for the crime already committed, the perpetrator had reason to go back into Meredith Kercher’s bedroom, thus leaving behind a glass fragment that had remained attached to the sole of a shoe or the clothing being worn.​

That seems a sound argument. I wonder if it was responded to in Galati? ETA: It wasn't.

 

[Tugela]

Here's an interesting fact: Although scientists in the US seem determined to tell scientists in Italy how to do their jobs, the latest ranking of countries in terms of math/science scores has Italy scoring higher than the US. In fact, it looks like scientists in Asia, Switzerland, or Canada should be advising those in the US about how to do their jobs, and that scientists in the US really are not in a position to set standards.

http://www.oecd.org/pisa/keyfindings/PISA-2012-results-US.pdf

That refers to school students, not scientists.

American universities completely dominate international rankings. You can see listings of the top 100 Universities per year Times Higher Education World University Rankings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia or Academic Ranking of World Universities - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. As you can see almost all of the top Universities are in North America, the rest of the world doesn't even come close.

This is particularly true in the sciences, where North America is the center of the known universe by a very long shot. Italy (and the rest of Europe for that matter) does not come even remotely close.

You doubt it? Take a look at the list of List of Nobel laureates in Chemistry - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, and the enormous number of winners from North America.

 

[sherlockh]

http://www.king5.com/news/local/60016427.html

This was well explained by Massei how unlikely that scenario is. Not ruling something out doesn't mean it is probable.

 

[SMK]

This was well explained by Massei how unlikely that scenario is. Not ruling something out doesn't mean it is probable.

BBM- OK. Good point.

 

[SMK]

Broken glass was found in MK's room. Here is what Hellmann-Zanetti said:

It will also be recalled that the film, made by the scientific police during the inspection, reveals the presence of a glass fragment next to a footprint in Meredith’s room. Which logically leads one to conclude that the breaking of the window happened before the entry into the room of Meredith Kercher — there being no reason to suppose that after the alleged staging of the burglary, carried out to divert suspicions about responsibility for the crime already committed, the perpetrator had reason to go back into Meredith Kercher’s bedroom, thus leaving behind a glass fragment that had remained attached to the sole of a shoe or the clothing being worn.​

I know Sigh Sister had brought up this shard of glass found in MK's room pics last week. Cannot recall the context.

I see Hellmann's logic, but it is not refuted in the appeal. Anyone have any counter-argument to what Hellmann asserts here (that the shard of glass logically proves no simulation)?

 

[redheadedgal]

Funny you mention Hampikian who is hiding behind Idahoan trade secrets.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-11-26/nestle-gilead-frack-starbucks-intellectual-property.html

Therefore the lack of discovery has been a problem for the defense at least between 2008 and 2011.

why is GH (and BSU) getting raked over the coals for not handing over info while stefanoni is supported and excuses are made for her not giving to the defence what they asked for? seems another contradiction...

(why wasn't she found in contempt for not complying with a judge's request is another question?!)

and, in the link sherlockh provides above, there is a response from BSU to andrea vogt (not sure how to link the adobe file here - sorry) which also includes the reasoning of attorney-client priviledge. why would anyone want that violated? i would assume no one here would... ??

 

[Harmony 2]

That refers to school students, not scientists.

American universities completely dominate international rankings. You can see listings of the top 100 Universities per year Times Higher Education World University Rankings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia or Academic Ranking of World Universities - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. As you can see almost all of the top Universities are in North America, the rest of the world doesn't even come close.

This is particularly true in the sciences, where North America is the center of the known universe by a very long shot. Italy (and the rest of Europe for that matter) does not come even remotely close.

You doubt it? Take a look at the list of List of Nobel laureates in Chemistry - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, and the enormous number of winners from North America.

OT
Very cool thanks... my son attends MIT and will graduate in June then has been accepted into the graduate school.. I see it is ranked 4 and 5 on those lists... sorry proud mama here :blushing:

 

[Amber29]

Where does the piece, identified with a white square and overlaid on the second photo, fit? Using the tile grid, it simply doesn't line up.

Yeh the tiles don't match up, so we can't know where the print is supposed to be.

 

[SMK]

One more quick question (it seems I really missed a LOT of info in this case - sorry ) :

The towels that Guede claim he used to try and stop MK's bleeding.

What is the real theory on this?

Did someone actually attempt to help MK? Or were the towels just there, and got soaked with blood? To me, it does appear someone was trying to stop the flow.

Had never really heard any ideas about this, other than what Guede himself asserted, which I saw no reason to believe---
See attached (WARNING - Graphic image) http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/PhotoGallery4.html

 

[SMK]

OT
Very cool thanks... my son attends MIT and will graduate in June then has been accepted into the graduate school.. I see it is ranked 4 and 5 on those lists... sorry proud mama here :blushing:

And well you should be!

 

[MichaelSmith]

One more quick question (it seems I really missed a LOT of info in this case - sorry ) :

The towels that Guede claim he used to try and stop MK's bleeding.

What is the real theory on this?

Did someone actually attempt to help MK? Or were the towels just there, and got soaked with blood? To me, it does appear someone was trying to stop the flow.

Had never really heard any ideas about this, other than what Guede himself asserted, which I saw no reason to believe---
See attached (WARNING - Graphic image) http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/PhotoGallery4.html

I think he may have put them over her head while he sexually assaulted her.

 

[redheadedgal]

That refers to school students, not scientists.

i think i saw italy on the list of Nobel laureates once...

 

[SMK]

I think he may have put them over her head while he sexually assaulted her.

Maybe. thnx

 

[sherlockh]

Where does the piece, identified with a white square and overlaid on the second photo, fit? Using the tile grid, it simply doesn't line up.

Found 3 reference points which seem to indicate that the shoe print was indeed removed. I don't know for what reason.
ETA: It also seems the piece of paper is in front of it, so I can't clearly see if the whole print is gone.
ETA: Ok, I see another pic without the paper.
ETA: I am dizzy

 

[whoanellie]

Another thing that must be called into question, now:

The necessity of multiple attackers:

This was brought to my attention by trawling on JREF forum;

From Massei'
p 368



However:
Dr. Lalli and Dr. Liviero did believe , in their expert opinions and said in their testimony as experts, that they believed that there had to be multiple attackers. (p 370, Massei). ETA: Reading more indepth, it seems Massei is saying that taken together, some aspects (lack of defensive wounds, bruising) would lead to the inference that the crime was the work of more than one attacker.

This is very interesting. Thanks for finding this.

 

[otto]

Found 3 reference points which seem to indicate that the shoe print was indeed removed. I don't know for what reason.
ETA: It also seems the piece of paper is in front of it, so I can't clearly see if the whole print is gone.
ETA: Ok, I see another pic without the paper.
ETA: I am dizzy
View attachment 39287

That's what I was thinking too, but that means that the paper is covering where the print should be.