Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL*#7

[Yellow]

bbm


SMK, ITA, except I don't think it stems from presuming them guilty or innocent in the beginning. I think it stems from either believing they might be lying about things, or presuming they must be telling the truth about things.

In fact, I just wrote a post about this same things earlier.

And it all begins with the alibi. If one believes their alibi and believes they are telling the truth about their alibi, then of course one has to disbelieve the rest of the case against them.

It just cannot be both ways. That they were at Raffaelo's eating/having sex/talking/on computer/etc.., and that they were at the same time at Amanda's cottage during the time period of the murder. It is just not possible.

So, what happens? From there on, if one chooses to believe them, one cannot believe anything else. One has to keep buying their subsequent stories.

As I posted above, this is not the case at all. One could still think there is a possibility of lying yet still not get to murder. They could have come back that nights saw the scene, picked up stuff, and then did not want to call police bc they were stoned so they waited till morning. That scenario is but one way to interpret what went on.

You cannot get to murder just by lying or lack of alibi. Especially in a case w no motive.

 

[otto]

Yes, I think you're right. The weather data has Oct 30 rain; not the 2 following dates.....I don't know what to make of testimony that "it had rained the night before the murder".

Would you happen to have the link for the weather in Perugia on the night of the murder ... again? Is it a regional weather report, or is it a weather report in Perugia.

Why would the prosecutor state that it was raining on the night of the murder if that was not true?

 

[SMK]

As I posted above, this is not the case at all. One could still think there is a possibility of lying yet still not get to murder. They could have come back that nights saw the scene, picked up stuff, and then did not want to call police bc they were stoned so they waited till morning. That scenario is but one way to interpret what went on.

You cannot get to murder just by lying or lack of alibi. Especially in a case w no motive.

So in this scenario they go to the cottage stoned, see MK dead, are too out of it to know not to disturb a crime scene or phone police, and go back to the apt to sleep. In the morning, they figure they will just get others to discover the body. And did not reckon what was going to unfold. But still, why not speak up at some point ? In my scenario, i figured they felt culpable as had put Guede up to it. But in yours, why not just admit they were stoned and touched a crime scene: Esp. at this late date?

 

[Amber29]

Thank you I have very good grasp of the evidence. It is always good to separate opinions from undisputed facts.


It doesn't contradict in any way the claim they slept until 10.

How does opening a program and playing music for 30mins at 5:32am and turning on his cell phone at 6am not contradict that they slept until 10am?

There are so many contradicted points in the "alibi" that I can't believe it can be stated that what they say they did is fact.

RS told multiple stories, including the one of amanda going out that night.

It's not anyone's job to make up excuses for these lies, that is not how reasonable doubt works. If RS was awake at 530am playing on his computer instead of sleeping, he should've mentioned that guess he smoked too much pot he can't remember. Then again he can't even keep that lie straight.

 

[otto]

It is a summary of Lalli's report. I'm just point out there WERE wounds on her hands, albeit small.

That's what I'm saying. There are plenty of statements in the Massei report where he summarizes a claim made by the defense or prosecution. That is not necessarily the conclusion of the court after hearing all the evidence.

What Massei concludes is that given the violence and number of injuries (43), a 0.6 cm cut on Meredith's hand is not consistent with clear defensive wounds.

 

[Amber29]

I know the answer to this one. His reconstruction is wrong because he says that Guede acted alone and shows how this was done in his reconstruction. Unless someone says that AK and RS were a part of the crime with Guede, then the person is not believed.

The same could be said for all the prosecutors witnesses and anyone who believes in guilt.

Lets not forget the prosecutors, police, and anyone who worked the crime scene is corrupt and was there to frame AK

Don't forget any witnesses that saw something that paints AK in a negative light or contradicted her alibi is a liar.

 

[Sigh Sister]

That's what I'm saying. There are plenty of statements in the Massei report where he summarizes a claim made by the defense or prosecution. That is not necessarily the conclusion of the court after hearing all the evidence.

What Massei concludes is that given the violence and number of injuries (43), a 0.6 cm cut on Meredith's hand is not consistent with clear defensive wounds.

He calls them "almost nonexistent defensive wounds". So he acknowledges they are defensive wounds just very small.

 

[SMK]

That's what I'm saying. There are plenty of statements in the Massei report where he summarizes a claim made by the defense or prosecution. That is not necessarily the conclusion of the court after hearing all the evidence.

What Massei concludes is that given the violence and number of injuries (43), a 0.6 cm cut on Meredith's hand is not consistent with clear defensive wounds.

So Massei concluded multiple attackers were the likely reason for so negligible a defense on the part of the victim. Correct?

 

[quesarita]

How does opening a program and playing music for 30mins at 5:32am and turning on his cell phone at 6am not contradict that they slept until 10am?

OK, two young people newly in love, in bed together, wake up and play music on the computer for 30 minutes then go back to sleep for a few more hours - and you can't IMAGINE what they were doing or how that could happen? Really?

 

[quesarita]

So Massei concluded multiple attackers were the likely reason for so negligible a defense on the part of the victim. Correct?

This is what really bothers me - it's almost like "blaming the victim", believing that it would take at least 3 people to restrain a woman enough to allow her to be raped or her clothes removed. In this case, the victim died horribly, so the other attackers must be produced.

 

[Amber29]

OK, two young people newly in love, in bed together, wake up and play music on the computer for 30 minutes then go back to sleep for a few more hours - and you can't IMAGINE what they were doing or how that could happen? Really?

No I can imagine that but why lie about it? The simple fact is RS said he slept until 10am, that is not true.

It is not a jurors job when it's brought to their attention that evidence proves his statement is false, to make up an excuse why he was awake for 30mins and didn't mention it.

This is called discrediting his alibi, which is what the evidence proves.

 

[Sigh Sister]

No I can imagine that but why lie about it? The simple fact is RS said he slept until 10am, that is not true.

It is not a jurors job when it's brought to their attention that evidence proves his statement is false, to make up an excuse why he was awake for 30mins and didn't mention it.

This is called discrediting his alibi, which is what the evidence proves.

Sorry if this has been discussed, but did he say he slept until 10 or got out of bed at 10. And was he specifically asked about his phone and computer activity that morning? ( I should know this as much as I've read about this case. )

 

[SMK]

Would you happen to have the link for the weather in Perugia on the night of the murder ... again? Is it a regional weather report, or is it a weather report in Perugia.

Why would the prosecutor state that it was raining on the night of the murder if that was not true?

Yes, it does seem that both La Nazzione and Prosecutor have stated it rained Nov 1.

Here is the link; I think perhaps this was a 3 day weather forecast?

I know in my area, it will say "clear and sunny" but sometimes it rains where I am, but not 10 minutes down the road:


http://gator941.hostgator.com/~michael/viewtopic.php?style=1&f=6&t=79

 

[quesarita]

Didn't both he and AK say they made love during the night?

 

[otto]

So Massei concluded multiple attackers were the likely reason for so negligible a defense on the part of the victim. Correct?

Massei looked at all the evidence at the crime scene and concluded that there was evidence that three individuals were involved in the murder.

That belief was in part supported by the fact that although there are one or two very small cuts on Meredith's hand, those injuries are completely disproportionate in terms of defensive wounds that should be present if Meredith's had not been restrained.

 

[otto]

OK, two young people newly in love, in bed together, wake up and play music on the computer for 30 minutes then go back to sleep for a few more hours - and you can't IMAGINE what they were doing or how that could happen? Really?

Meredith Kercher was murdered. Police were doing a murder investigation. As part of that investigation, they spoke with many witnesses. The expectation was that those witnesses be truthful and provide complete details.

Yes, Knox and Sollecito were expected to state that they woke up at 5:32 AM on the morning after the murder. Is there any reason why a half truth should be acceptable during a murder investigation?

 

[Amber29]

Sorry if this has been discussed, but did he say he slept until 10 or got out of bed at 10. And was he specifically asked about his phone and computer activity that morning? ( I should know this as much as I've read about this case. )

RS has said a number of things, pick one but i believe he said they slept in that morning. There is also the call from his dad around 930am I believe.

 

[aa9511]

But what if as someone else said, her jacket had been pulled up but not off, pinning her arms above her head. Would that not account for the smaller amount of bruising noted on her arms and the lack of defensive knife wounds on her hands? In that situation someone would struggle but fairly helplessly, trying to get away from the knife and at the same time free their arms.

I don't see the impossibility for this to have been done by a single perpetrator. It happens all too often.

But then why was the jacket off when she was found? If her jacked was already pulled up, like her shirt was, her breasts and body were still exposed. What would be the need to then take her jacket off, if it was already up the way you said, pinning her arms?

 

[Sigh Sister]

This is what really bothers me - it's almost like "blaming the victim", believing that it would take at least 3 people to restrain a woman enough to allow her to be raped or her clothes removed. In this case, the victim died horribly, so the other attackers must be produced.

Welcome to Websleuths! :seeya:

The reasoning in the Massei report hurts my head.

 

[otto]

Yes, it does seem that both La Nazzione and Prosecutor have stated it rained Nov 1.

Here is the link; I think perhaps this was a 3 day weather forecast?

I know in my area, it will say "clear and sunny" but sometimes it rains where I am, but not 10 minutes down the road:


http://gator941.hostgator.com/~michael/viewtopic.php?style=1&f=6&t=79

That would explain why the prosecutor stated on November 25, 2013 that it was raining on the night of the murder.

So ... back to the discussion prior to once again having to prove by link that it rained, Guede did not scale a 13' stone wall(which would have been slippery), he did not leave prints in the mud below the window, and he did not leave evidence of grass and mud in Filomina's bedroom. He did not remove the glass from the exterior of the window sill. He did not drop a single shard of glass on the ground outside the window. He did not leave any evidence that he was in Filomina's bedroom.

The only reason to attempt to place Guede in the bedroom is to explain the broken window, but there is nothing to suggest that anyone climbed through the window. We have a broken window, and we have Guede in the cottage.