Anthonys want autopsy results sealed AND ALL Autopsy Updates

[Brini]

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/2053190/FBI-Lab-Results-(Casey-Anthony)-Searchable-Doc


FBI Oak Ridge Lab report on the decomp in the hair. The next report shows the mDNA report, on the same hair.

I'll try to find the FBI photos of the post-mortem banding, when I have time, today.

Thanks!

 

[Brini]

I was curious, so I dug up a bit on postmortem hair banding, for anyone else who is interested:

Post-mortem banding occurs within 1 mm of the root. In fact, it's properly called "post-mortem root banding". This phenomenon will not occur if the hair has come away from the scalp of a decedent shortly after death.

Environmental conditions do affect the deterioration of hair, but post-mortem root banding is dependent on the hair being attached to the body for at least 8 hrs and is a result of the decomp process. If the hair falls from the scalp soon after death, there will be no root banding as I read the literature.

http://www.aafs.org/pdf/Seattleabstracts06.pdf

 

[JBean]

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/2053190/FBI-Lab-Results-(Casey-Anthony)-Searchable-Doc


FBI Oak Ridge Lab report on the decomp in the hair. The next report shows the mDNA report.

I'll try to find the FBI photos of the post-mortem banding, when I have time, today.

Thanks!

yes I have seen the report on the decomp in the hair and I as I have posted, I have no question about that.

If you find anything from the FBI that confirms the decomp came in the form of root banding as opposed to anything else that would be wonderful.

Part of the reason I am looking for this is because posters use the FBI report as the source for the pm root banding and I can't find it.

thanks for your help Brini. I am off to the mountains for some xtreme riding on my bicycle! Gorgeous day here.

 

[JBean]

I was curious, so I dug up a bit on postmortem hair banding, for anyone else who is interested:

Post-mortem banding occurs within 1 mm of the root. In fact, it's properly called "post-mortem root banding". This phenomenon will not occur if the hair has come away from the scalp of a decedent shortly after death.

Environmental conditions do affect the deterioration of hair, but post-mortem root banding is dependent on the hair being attached to the body for at least 8 hrs and is a result of the decomp process. If the hair falls from the scalp soon after death, there will be no root banding as I read the literature.

http://www.aafs.org/pdf/Seattleabstracts06.pdf

This is exactly the reason I am wondering if the decomp evidence came in the form of cuticle curling or something else and not necessarily pm banding. thanks for that information.

 

[JBean]

Later, J! Yes, I know what an FBI report is. And, I think it would be great if we so documented ALL our "rumors." Shall we make policy?

BTW-- I've just learned the "death band" is properly called "post-mortem root banding."

I will also try to find the FBI photmicrographs of the banding that they sent to the media to clarify.

i am not sure what you are trying to say in this post?

To be clear, if the root banding was being touted as a rumor I wouldn't even be asking the question. This is being stated in this forum as fact. I have no reason to doubt that is the case, but the fact is being backed here by using the FBI report as the source. I can't find it in the FBI report hence my question.



I guess I am sensing some sarcasm towards me in your post and I thought you were just trying to help.You have thrown me a little off guard. I'll continue to look for it, please don't worry about it brini but thanks for what you have done so far. It is all helpful.

 

[Brini]

yes I have seen the report on the decomp in the hair and I as I have posted, I have no question about that.

If you find anything from the FBI that confirms the decomp came in the form of root banding as opposed to anything else that would be wonderful.

Part of the reason I am looking for this is because posters use the FBI report as the source for the pm root banding and I can't find it.

thanks for your help Brini. I am off to the mountains for some xtreme riding on my bicycle! Gorgeous day here.

I'll keep looking! I know what you want.. I've seen it. I HAD a fine library of all this stuff, on my (deceased) VIAO.:-(

I'm jealous of your mountain biking! Have a GREAT time! Of COURSE it's a gorgeous day! Most of our (SD) days are gorgeous.

I have some stuff to do.. I'll either find it today, or I'll just keep looking until I DO find it.

Thanks, J!

 

[Brini]

i am not sure what you are trying to say in this post?

To be clear, if the root banding was being touted as a rumor I wouldn't even be asking the question. This is being stated in this forum as fact. I have no reason to doubt that is the case, but the fact is being backed here by using the FBI report as the source. I can't find it in the FBI report hence my question.



I guess I am sensing some sarcasm towards me in your post and I thought you were just trying to help.You have thrown me a little off guard. I'll continue to look for it, please don't worry about it brini but thanks for what you have done so far. It is all helpful.

No sarcasm intended.

I want to find it, too. I just wants to have it, myself. I remember that the FBI released those photos as an explanation of what they meant by "decomp." It apparently confused the media, at the time.

Thanks!

 

[countzero]

What I remember about this is on NG she and Kobi were discussing it when he backpeddled info on the report. And the report could have come from the time period from the Oak Ridge Labs too. I remember reading and seeing the photos discussed. HTH. If not, delete this post.

 

[Brini]

What I remember about this is on NG she and Kobi were discussing it when he backpeddled info on the report. And the report could have come from the time period from the Oak Ridge Labs too. I remember reading and seeing the photos discussed. HTH. If not, delete this post.

You remember correctly. Not just on NG, though. It was within a couple of days of the release of the forensic tests.

That's what I'm looking for.. the clarifying FBI stuff, showing the pictures and explaining what the band portents, and how the micrography is done.

I've found about a thousand articles about the stuff, but so far, not the originals. We are looking for EXACTLY what the FBI released.

I think the FBI coincidentally released the material JUST after CA made some anti-science scathing remark.

If I don't find it, we can concede that the original lab report says "decomp" but does not specifically mention "postmortem banding." Then, we can debate what that means.

But, one thing is for sure-- NG didn't start the "rumor." A whole bunch of media and talking head forensic pathologists came outta the woodwork, at the same time.

But.. I want the material, just to have it, anyway.

I just wish I had backed up the Viao. :-((((((((((((((

 

[Marina2]

The FBI did not confirm that the apparent decomposition came in the form of a root band. They did confirm that the characteristics were noted in the proximal (root) end. This has led a great many to believe that a death band (postmortem root band) was found on that one hair. In the report, the FBI didn't name which proximal end change had occurred as a result of decomposition. It could be "root banding" or a "putrid root". Either way, they both come from a decomposing body. I guess we'll find out at a later date which of these "characteristics of apparent decomposition" were found on that root end.

Snipped from Journal of Forensic Sciences abstract:

"Four primary types of hair proximal end postmortem change were identified. Postmortem banding, which may appear proximal or distal, is infrequently seen, possibly because it occurs only in late anagen/early catagen, or late catagen stage hair roots. Much more common are the hard keratin points and brush-like ends, both of which most likely result from complete decomposition of the soft anagen hair root/stem elements that are just below the hard (permanent) keratinous shaft. The hard keratin point form is usually associated with advanced moist scalp decomposition, and the brush-like form is usually associated with advanced dry scalp decomposition."

http://www.ncjrs.gov/App/Publications/abstract.aspx?ID=187165


Snipped from "Forensic Human Hair Examination Guidelines"

"Postmortem banding is the appearance of an opaque microscopic band near the root area of hairs from a decomposing body."

"Putrid root is a tapered or brush-like appearance of the proximal end caused by decomposition."

http://www.fbi.gov/hq/lab/fsc/backissu/april2005/standards/2005_04_standards02.htm


Here's a very informative article on Hair Forensics:

http://www.fbi.gov/hq/lab/fsc/current/review/2009_04_review02.htm


And, the FBI report snipped from the documents, pg. 2504

 

[JBean]

The FBI did not confirm that the apparent decomposition came in the form of a root band. They did confirm that the characteristics were noted in the proximal (root) end. This has led a great many to believe that a death band (postmortem root band) was found on that one hair. In the report, the FBI didn't name which proximal end change had occurred as a result of decomposition. It could be "root banding" or a "putrid root". Either way, they both come from a decomposing body. I guess we'll find out at a later date which of these "characteristics of apparent decomposition" were found on that root end.

snipped for space


And, the FBI report snipped from the documents, pg. 2504

View attachment 4121

Thank you Marina. That is exactly what I wanted to know. I think most of us will agree that the hair came from a decomposing body, but we cannot agree, with 100% confidence, that it exhibited post mortem banding.

 

[USARDOG]

Brini, I put in some time looking, found many, many refrences to the fbi doc and the death band, but can't find the origional doc. I have no doubt it exists, but haven't found it yet.

 

[Marina2]

You remember correctly. Not just on NG, though. It was within a couple of days of the release of the forensic tests.

That's what I'm looking for.. the clarifying FBI stuff, showing the pictures and explaining what the band portents, and how the micrography is done.

I've found about a thousand articles about the stuff, but so far, not the originals. We are looking for EXACTLY what the FBI released.

I think the FBI coincidentally released the material JUST after CA made some anti-science scathing remark.

If I don't find it, we can concede that the original lab report says "decomp" but does not specifically mention "postmortem banding." Then, we can debate what that means.

But, one thing is for sure-- NG didn't start the "rumor." A whole bunch of media and talking head forensic pathologists came outta the woodwork, at the same time.

But.. I want the material, just to have it, anyway.

I just wish I had backed up the Viao. :-((((((((((((((

Brini, I think what you're remembering is when all the talking heads and NG cited this article on the FBI website. They showed this picture of the root banding. I think they just jumped to conclusions and didn't take into account the other types of changes at the root end that can occur with decomposition. The FBI didn't release this picture or refer to it in any report themselves.



It's found at this link:

http://www.fbi.gov/hq/lab/fsc/backissu/july2000/deedric1.htm

 

[Brini]

The FBI did not confirm that the apparent decomposition came in the form of a root band. They did confirm that the characteristics were noted in the proximal (root) end. This has led a great many to believe that a death band (postmortem root band) was found on that one hair. In the report, the FBI didn't name which proximal end change had occurred as a result of decomposition. It could be "root banding" or a "putrid root". Either way, they both come from a decomposing body. I guess we'll find out at a later date which of these "characteristics of apparent decomposition" were found on that root end.

Snipped from Journal of Forensic Sciences abstract:

"Four primary types of hair proximal end postmortem change were identified. Postmortem banding, which may appear proximal or distal, is infrequently seen, possibly because it occurs only in late anagen/early catagen, or late catagen stage hair roots. Much more common are the hard keratin points and brush-like ends, both of which most likely result from complete decomposition of the soft anagen hair root/stem elements that are just below the hard (permanent) keratinous shaft. The hard keratin point form is usually associated with advanced moist scalp decomposition, and the brush-like form is usually associated with advanced dry scalp decomposition."

http://www.ncjrs.gov/App/Publications/abstract.aspx?ID=187165


Snipped from "Forensic Human Hair Examination Guidelines"

"Postmortem banding is the appearance of an opaque microscopic band near the root area of hairs from a decomposing body."

"Putrid root is a tapered or brush-like appearance of the proximal end caused by decomposition."

http://www.fbi.gov/hq/lab/fsc/backissu/april2005/standards/2005_04_standards02.htm


Here's a very informative article on Hair Forensics:

http://www.fbi.gov/hq/lab/fsc/current/review/2009_04_review02.htm


And, the FBI report snipped from the documents, pg. 2504

View attachment 4121

WOW! Would you please ad me to your fan club, Marina!

 

[JBean]

Brini, I think what you're remembering is when all the talking heads and NG cited this article on the FBI website. They showed this picture of the root banding. I think they just jumped to conclusions and didn't take into account the other types of changes at the root end that can occur with decomposition. The FBI didn't release this picture or refer to it in any report themselves.

View attachment 4122

It's found at this link:

http://www.fbi.gov/hq/lab/fsc/backissu/july2000/deedric1.htm

This is what i think is happening also Marina;but understandably so. That is why it is important that here at WS, we try to reveal as much factual information as possible. I am not looking for any answer in particular, I just want to make sure when we quote facts they are facts.

 

[countzero]

WOW! Would you please ad me to your fan club, Marina!

:wave: Me too Marina. That was me who remember the talking heads and NG.

 

[Leila]

Caylee's autopsy report will be all clinical. It has been reported that Dr. G does give her professional opinions on possible causes.

Anyone who watches Dr. G knows this is her standard OP. She is extremely professional and is not on anyone side except the victim, in this case Caylee.

The A clan certainly wasn't concerned about the anguish, tears and thoughts LE, FBI, all the lab techs, those who assisted and Dr. G and her staff have to deal with on a daily basis since Caylee was discovered. Nope, the A clan went and had a $100.00 plus dinner on ABC. Drinking and eating is a great ugly coping method for that crew.

I'm just trying to catch up with this thread after a couple of difficult days (our cat of 13 years died suddenly Friday night, from what we think was a stroke).

I think the one of the things the Anthonys are worried about is this - Dr. G's professional opinion. As a well-respected medical examiner, Dr. G's opinion will carry a lot of weight. The Anthonys will be hard-pressed to refute Dr. G's opinion, and the defense is going to have to come up with a medical examiner of equal reputation to refute her opinion, hoping to cast doubts about the findings.

 

[countzero]

I'm just trying to catch up with this thread after a couple of difficult days (our cat of 13 years died suddenly Friday night, from what we think was a stroke).

I think the one of the things the Anthonys are worried about is this - Dr. G's professional opinion. As a well-respected medical examiner, Dr. G's opinion will carry a lot of weight. The Anthonys will be hard-pressed to refute Dr. G's opinion, and the defense is going to have to come up with a medical examiner of equal reputation to refute her opinion, hoping to cast doubts about the findings.

Yep, LKB's hubby will have great difficulty going up against Dr G any day, any case. She cannot be bought for any amount of money. She does it for the victim as well as her love of medicine. I so admire her.

OT: I am so sorry about your cat. I have lost two 20 year old babies in less than one year.

 

[Brini]

:wave: Me too Marina. That was me who remember the talking heads and NG.

You gotta admit, Count... there were some fun times watching Kobi lay tread while doing u-turns on his own analyses!

 

[USARDOG]

Death Band Caylee Hair
http://a11news.com/840/death-band-caylee-hair/