Any DNA experts agree w/RDI that transfer is more likely than intruder?

[voynich]

I didn't say all that. You asked, I answered.



I'm glad you brought this up. From what I understand, it's not QUITE that simple. When the "touch DNA" story broke, the techs did a demonstration of how the process works. One of the steps is that the collected DNA is put into a sorter (I'm sure that's not the scientific name, but bear with me) and any DNA that is NOT a match to the DNA you're looking to match up is separated and eliminated. I promise you I'm not making that up.



I appreciate what you're saying, but I don't know if it could be done at this point.



I couldn't tell you.

The original DNA found mixed in JB's blood was not touch DNA but more conventional DNA testing. Did they find other DNA which what would expect given teh RDI transfer hypothesis?

 

[BBB167893]

YouTube - matrix neo vs. agent smith

I've got one for you:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xci2A6i68us"]YouTube - SUPERMAN vs. Darkseid (1 of 3) FULL FIGHT![/ame]

Take a look at my location and put 2 and 2 together...

 

[BBB167893]

The original DNA found mixed in JB's blood was not touch DNA but more conventional DNA testing.

I didn't say it WAS touch DNA. What I said was they needed to use methods that amplified the DNA just to get a readable sample.

IDI has yet to explain why the "intruder DNA" was so old and JB's was so fresh.

Did they find other DNA which what would expect given the RDI transfer hypothesis?

Like I said, I don't know.

 

[Ravyn]

Put 2 and 2 together ok did that SD...

 

[BBB167893]

Put 2 and 2 together ok did that SD...

Good, good. And?

 

[voynich]

I didn't say it WAS touch DNA. What I said was they needed to use methods that amplified the DNA just to get a readable sample.

IDI has yet to explain why the "intruder DNA" was so old and JB's was so fresh.



Like I said, I don't know.

I'm aware that the DNA found under her fingernails was "old" but I am not aware of this being true of teh DNA found under her fingernails.

Would the RDI transfer hypothesis hold that "fresh" JR, PR, BR, Whites DNA should have been found both under her fingernails AND in the vaginal blood?

 

[voynich]

I've got one for you:

YouTube - SUPERMAN vs. Darkseid (1 of 3) FULL FIGHT!

Take a look at my location and put 2 and 2 together...

You know why I picked that particular scene from the Matrix?

 

[BBB167893]

I'm aware that the DNA found under her fingernails was "old" but I am not aware of this being true of the DNA found under her fingernails.

You might have a misprint there.

Would the RDI transfer hypothesis hold that "fresh" JR, PR, BR, Whites DNA should have been found both under her fingernails AND in the vaginal blood?

Not that I know of. There are a lot of factors involved. Far as I go, the DNA door only swings one way.

You know why I picked that particular scene from the Matrix?

Not a clue. I was hoping you'd just tell me.

 

[voynich]

You might have a misprint there.



Not that I know of. There are a lot of factors involved. Far as I go, the DNA door only swings one way.



Not a clue. I was hoping you'd just tell me.

I stand corrected
Is there a credible source which states the foreign DNA found in JB blood "old".

The RDI spin on DNA is that it could have transferred from any contact JB had, and since we know that she contacted PR, JR, Whites, etc., that DNA should also be there.

Agent Smith "Mr. ANderson, I'm going to enjoy watching you die."
Neo "My name is NEO!"

clearer?

 

[BBB167893]

I stand corrected
Is there a credible source which states the foreign DNA found in JB blood "old".

Several, last I knew. Henry Lee, Melissa Weber, Bill Wise, Barry Scheck--just off the top of my head. The word they use is "degraded," but since JB's nails and underwear hadn't been exposed to extreme heat or chemicals, age is about all that we're left with. Not to mention the contamination issues at the morgue.

The RDI spin on DNA is that it could have transferred from any contact JB had, and since we know that she contacted PR, JR, Whites, etc., that DNA should also be there.

Not necessarily. You forget two important factors. One, what kind of contact it was and how the transfer happened. Two, the limitations of DNA testing, at least at that time.

Agent Smith "Mr. ANderson, I'm going to enjoy watching you die."
Neo "My name is NEO!"

clearer?

Not in the least.

 

[voynich]

Several, last I knew. Henry Lee, Melissa Weber, Bill Wise, Barry Scheck--just off the top of my head. The word they use is "degraded," but since JB's nails and underwear hadn't been exposed to extreme heat or chemicals, age is about all that we're left with. Not to mention the contamination issues at the morgue.



Not necessarily. You forget two important factors. One, what kind of contact it was and how the transfer happened. Two, the limitations of DNA testing, at least at that time.



Not in the least.

Hey I found a couple of summaries of the DNA from CBI. cheers

 

[BBB167893]

Could you provide me a credible online link that the DNA mixed with blood was "degraded", and if it was degraded how were they able to get the necessary markers?

Possibly. For right now, I think the best thing for you to do is to go up to where it says "search" and type in degraded DNA. This site is a treasure trove of articles and book excerpts and the like. (The Jedi archives have nothing on this place!) I'll look on my end.

As for how they were able to get the necessary markers from a degraded sample, that's even more interesting:

1) The methods of testing have improved so greatly. There was an interview with someone (exact name escapes me--Kobalinksy, I think) who said that the sample itself had not improved, merely that the testing had gotten better.

Which leads me to 2) They DIDN'T get all the necessary markers. Even with quantum leaps in technology, they were only able to finagle 10.

Degraded DNA in her fingernails did not have enough DNA markers for a forensic usefulness AFAIK.

That is correct.

Whatever kind of contact JB may have had w/this unknown male, her contact w/JR, BR, PR, Whites was more recent and of longer duration, so their DNA would either be also present along with unknown DNA.

DNA is a very quirky thing, voynich. It's a much bigger mystery than we sometimes think.

The last individuals JB came into contact with were her family and the Whites, so for this RDI spin to work, their DNA needs to also be present.

Like I said, not necessarily. That's not just my opinion, either.

Thoughout the entire movie, till the end, Agent Smith always referred to the ONe as Mr. Anderson. The ONe always spoke of himself as NEO. IT became a kind of Dun Moch for Smith to call him Mr. Anderson.

Ah. Very well. Do you know why I linked mine?

Oh I linked it b/c you can talk about the RST, and you asked me why the RST didn't cite McM and RST this and RST that. Why didn't RST trumpet Amy's rapist? Why did the RST go after Tom Miller?

I KNOW why they went after Tom Miller. I figured that one would bother you, because it raises an important question: if the Rs are so innocent, why did their shysters feel the need to sabotage potential witnesses? But I digress.

If we want to bring justice to JB, we need to use the best available scientific and forensic evidence to reconstruct what happened to JB.

Agreed.

I happen to accept that the DNA was most likely left by an intruder,

Well, I don't, but I agree it is possible. There's something else you might want to consider: it seems to me that by putting so much weight behind the DNA, IDI has effectively limited itself. I mean, if a suspect comes along and matches up with everything else, but NOT the DNA, they'll have to let him go. It's that simple. Lacy learned that lesson (or SHOULD have) the hard way when JMK came along. Of course, he DIDN'T match up in all other regards--far from it. But you know what I mean I hope.

and that McM linguistic analysis is based on solid science, and rules out the R's as the author.

To me, it's no more solid than handwriting analysis, which has been around a lot longer. But you don't seem to accept THAT when it pegs her. Sounds like an impasse.

 

[voynich]

Ah. Very well. Do you know why I linked mine?

e.

No I don't. BTW are there any online analysis of PR's handwriting done by a competent American Board Forensic handwriting analysis of both pro and con of PR and RN?

 

[BBB167893]

No I don't.

Just as a reminder that I am also a man of my word and how much that word means to a lot of people.

BTW are there any online analyses of PR's handwriting done by a competent American Board Forensic handwriting analysis of both pro and con of PR and RN?

If there are, I know nothing of them.

 

[voynich]

Just as a reminder that I am also a man of my word and how much that word means to a lot of people.



If there are, I know nothing of them.

While I am a fan of Star Wars EU I know of Dark Seid and Superman. It sounds like Apocalpyse in Marvel comics. So what was your intention for linking that particular clip

 

[voynich]

DNA is a very quirky thing, voynich. It's a much bigger mystery than we sometimes think.

e.

You can use this spin to explain away any RDI evidence like fiber or handwriting. "fibers is a very quirky thing. voynich It's a much bigger mystery than we sometimes think."
"staging is a very quirky thing, voynich. It's a much bigger mystery than we sometimes think. " "hymens is a very quirky thing, voynich. It's a much bigger mystery than we sometimes think. "

Your razor please. I don't want to make a mess of things in front of the jury.

According to Occam's razor, what would be the simplest explanation for the positive presence of unknown male DNA mixed in blood w/JB's vagina, also found on 2 locations in a separate article of clothing, and the absence of PR, JR, BR, or White DNA? You won't get away this time, Super!

 

[Ravyn]

Degraded and had to be amplified for testing using polymerase chain reaction (PCR). The "foreign" samples may actually be stutter (also called shadow bands), a common problem in PCR testing. Stutter can cause false positive test results.

 

[voynich]

Degraded and had to be amplified for testing using polymerase chain reaction (PCR). The "foreign" samples may actually be stutter (also called shadow bands), a common problem in PCR testing. Stutter can cause false positive test results.

Is there any concrete evidence that is what is present here?

 

[Ravyn]

Do you have any concrete evidence that the small amount didn't have to be amplified..And have you ever google to see what household chemcials can degrade or mess with DNA...

 

[voynich]

Do you have any concrete evidence that the small amount didn't have to be amplified..And have you ever google to see what household chemcials can degrade or mess with DNA...

The fact Lacy exonerated the R's based on DNA in consultation w/her DNA experts including DNA experts at BODE technology who obviously anticipated, considered, and ruled out such objections.