Applebee’s fires waitress who posted receipt from pastor complaining about auto-tip

[Perodicticus potto]

To answer the pastor's original question, the reason God gets less money is that God doesn't have to pay rent.

If only this had happened at a Little Caesar's, I could have made a "render unto Caesar" joke.

 

[zippitydoda]

exactly. thanks steely!

from applebee's fb page:

Regrettably, and without the restaurant's knowledge, she took it upon herself to take ...a Guest's receipt, with the name clearly visible, and posted it online with her own commentary.

https://www.facebook.com/#!/applebees?fref=ts


again-- they are condemning chelsea for EXACTLY what they themself did when they posted that complimentary message with the name of the customer who wrote it.

Applebees had permission to post that other favorable receipt.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/01/...-exposing-pastors-give-god-10-no-tip-receipt/

"The waitress said that the she failed to redact the signature because she thought it was illegible, but Internet sleuths began using it to obtain the pastor’s identity."

 

[Steely Dan]

To answer the pastor's original question, the reason God gets less money is that God doesn't have to pay rent.

If only this had happened at a Little Caesar's, I could have made a "render unto Caesar" joke.

From Zippitydooda's link; http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/01/...-exposing-pastors-give-god-10-no-tip-receipt/

“My mistake sir, I’m sure Jesus will pay for my rent and groceries,” Chelsea wrote on Reddit on Wednesday along with a photo of the receipt.

:giggle:

Applebees had permission to post that other favorable receipt.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/01/...-exposing-pastors-give-god-10-no-tip-receipt/

"The waitress said that the she failed to redact the signature because she thought it was illegible, but Internet sleuths began using it to obtain the pastor’s identity."

I didn't see anything in that article about Applebees having permission to post the other message. Maybe I missed it. I did see that she checked the employee handbook and she didn't break any rules according to it. (Of course that's her interpretation.) Also, in the quote above she identifies the person as a man and not a woman. Anyway, she never should have shown the signature.

 

[zippitydoda]

Well, IMO they are both jerks, the pastor and the receipt poster. Two bullies, who basically got theirs in the end. Both set out to be mean, and it backfired on them. She should have never posted anything. When Chelsea owns and runs her own business, she can break all her own rules all she wants, and then deal with lawyers, courts and the like.

Someone else on reddit created a support fund request for chelsea, almost every poster to that thread said nope. It has $0 in it so far. I say people have to learn that you can't post anything and everything to the internet, especially when it pertains to your job. Fair? I've read that fair is where you go to ride carnival rides, not life.

As for Applebees posting the other receipt - it was not in that link, sorry - I'll dig for that link to confirm it.

 

[redheadedgal]

Applebees had permission to post that other favorable receipt.

i don't see anything to that effect in the article you linked ????

 

[redheadedgal]

I don't see what was ordered nor an amount, or how it was paid for, how many people in the party, alcohol or not, nothing relating to what that person who wrote the note may have had ...if that was indeed the backside of that person's receipt.

the only criteria you list that is found on the receipt chelsea posted (that i can see via a bing search) is a total, so all the other things in your list are not important or necessary imo, and therefore cannot be used to suggest the receipt i posted isn't a similar situation:twocents:

(and, it is the backside of the receipt... one can clearly read "applebee's" at the top center and see type all the way down to the bottom)

 

[Steely Dan]

the only criteria you list that is found on the receipt chelsea posted (that i can see via a bing search) is a total, so all the other things in your list are not important or necessary imo, and therefore cannot be used to suggest the receipt i posted isn't a similar situation:twocents:

(and, it is the backside of the receipt... one can clearly read "applebee's" at the top center and see type all the way down to the bottom)

I agree. Showing the signature is what really got her in trouble.

 

[gitana1]

If servers nowadays at a busy restaurant make less than 9$ per hour then why would they even want to do such hard work.

Because many of them can't find anything else. No one wants to work that hard for so little. But for many, it's just not a choice.

I just don't believe they average less than 9$ per hour. My daughter averaged that at Sonic as a car hop 15 years ago when she was 15.

The average wage for car hops (the only ones who are tipped at Sonic), is $6.52 per hour (less tips). It ranges between $3.00 and $8.00 p/h. And that's today, not 15 years ago:

<table class="memberChart" id="SalaryChart"><tbody><tr class="header"> <td style="width:250px;" class="occ">Salaries in <tt class="i-cur">USD</tt>

</td> <td style="width: 65px;" class="mean">Avg. Salary</td> <td style="width: 285px;" class="ticks"> $10k
$30k
$50k

</td> </tr> <tr class="dataRow first"> <td class="occ"><tt class="i-occ">Carhop</tt> - Hourly
<tt class="notranslate">21</tt> <tt class="i-emp">Sonic</tt> Salaries
</td> <td class="mean"><tt class="notranslate">$6.52/hr</tt></td> <td class="salaryGraph"> $3
$8



</td> </tr> <tr class="dataRow"> <td class="occ"><tt class="i-occ">Assistant Manager</tt> - Hourly
<tt class="notranslate">15</tt> <tt class="i-emp">Sonic</tt> Salaries
</td> <td class="mean"><tt class="notranslate">$9.45/hr</tt></td> <td class="salaryGraph"> $8
$12



</td> </tr> <tr class="dataRow"> <td class="occ"><tt class="i-occ">Kitchen Crew</tt> - Hourly
<tt class="notranslate">10</tt> <tt class="i-emp">Sonic</tt> Salaries
</td> <td class="mean"><tt class="notranslate">$6.49/hr</tt></td> <td class="salaryGraph"> $5
$8



</td> </tr> <tr class="dataRow"> <td class="occ"><tt class="i-occ">General Manager</tt>
<tt class="notranslate">8</tt> <tt class="i-emp">Sonic</tt> Salaries
</td> <td class="mean"><tt class="notranslate">$40,038</tt></td> <td class="salaryGraph"> $24k
$52k



</td> </tr> <tr class="dataRow"> <td class="occ"><tt class="i-occ">Cook</tt> - Hourly
<tt class="notranslate">6</tt> <tt class="i-emp">Sonic</tt> Salaries
</td> <td class="mean"><tt class="notranslate">$7.60/hr</tt></td> <td class="salaryGraph"> $7
$8



</td> </tr> <tr class="dataRow"> <td class="occ"><tt class="i-occ">Assistant Manager</tt>
<tt class="notranslate">4</tt> <tt class="i-emp">Sonic</tt> Salaries
</td> <td class="mean"><tt class="notranslate">$30,250</tt></td> <td class="salaryGraph"> $13k
$45k



</td> </tr> <tr class="dataRow"> <td class="occ"><tt class="i-occ">Crew Member</tt> - Hourly
<tt class="notranslate">4</tt> <tt class="i-emp">Sonic</tt> Salaries
</td> <td class="mean"><tt class="notranslate">$7.04/hr</tt></td> <td class="salaryGraph"> $7
$8



</td></tr></tbody></table>

http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Sonic-Salaries-E1303.htm

Similar stats are posted elsewhere: http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Employer=Sonic_Drive_-_In/Hourly_Rate

Here's an article explaining that:

Tipping Car Hops at Sonic Drive In
The hourly pay varies at different locations because Sonic operates both corporate and franchise restaurants. Some carhops receive a modest wage higher than the state minimum while others earn less than minimum wage and depend on tips to bridge the gap.

http://voices.yahoo.com/delivery-ta...nt-tipping-misconceptions-5849578.html?cat=22

It's incredible that your daughter, 15 years ago, managed to earn much more with wages and tips than the minimum wage is today. But the fact is, the minimum wage hasn't increased much since then. It's only increased by $2.60 in 15 years: http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0774473.html

This is a sluggish economy. Employers are paying less to employees and people are tipping less or going out less. It's a mess.

I posted about my friend who earns $4.75 p/h plus tips in AZ. That's less than the federal minimum wage, which they are allowed to do if the person receives tips:

AZ Tipped Wage
<ins style="display:inline-table;border:none;height:90px;margin:0;padding:0;position:relative;visibility:visible;width:728px"> <big style="color: green;">$4.35/hr</big>
The Arizona minimum wage for tipped employees is $4.35 per hour, higher then the federal minimum wage for tipped employees of $2.13 per hour. The Arizona tipped wage applies to employees like waitresses, waiters, bartenders, valets, and other service employees who earn more then $30 in tips a month.
Including tips and cash wages, all tipped employees must still earn at least the Arizona Minimum Wage of $7.80 per hour. If a Arizona employee does not earn at least $7.80 including tips in any given hour of work, their employer must make up the difference in cash.

</ins>http://www.minimum-wage.org/arizona-tipped-employee-minimum-wage

As you can see, I was wrong. She actually earns less.

Shareholders can pay their CEOs whatever they want, it is none of your concern. Their salary doesn't come from the public, nor the employees, it comes from the shareholders.

In the old days professional sports stars got paid relatively little compared to what stars get paid today. Same thing with everything else.

The worker bees on the other hand are not talented, are easily replaced and are dime a dozen. So, it a competitive environment, where the talent determines the salary, the top will get greater and greater rewards.

With competition for talented people, salaries went up. Compare the salaries of skilled workers in a growing business with burger flippers at Macdonalds. You will see the same sort of graph. It doesn't happen when industries are shrinking, which is what is happening with most manufacturing in the US today. That is why salaries are lagging there. Those companies still need talent to run them though.

BBM.

Respectfully, I think it's all of our concern when CEO salaries are so high that regular worker's wages and benefits have to be reduced to ensure such salaries. I also think it is all of our concern when the same companies paying their CEOs revolting salaries, later get bailed out by our government.

Also, I'm not sure why you believe shareholders decide CEO salaries:

How is CEO compensation determined? Especially with a CEO that had nothing to do with the formation of the company in which he is employed.
Art H. -- Waterville, Maine CEOs of public corporations get paid based on the recommendations of the board of directors. The pay package can include salary, bonus, stock options, and deferred compensation, along with use of the &#8220;company&#8221; jet to fly to the &#8220;company&#8221; villa in Tuscany or Aspen and a limo to drive you to an expense account lunch. Some CEO deals even require the company to pay their income taxes.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/11414878/ns/business-answer_desk/t/who-decides-how-much-ceo-makes/

Half a century ago, the median pay of top executives in U.S. companies was 30 times an average worker's salary; by 2005, the ratio was nearly 110. How did we get here?
If bosses set the salaries of their workers, who decides what the bosses earn? In a modern corporation, the task of setting the CEO's pay falls to the board of directors, typically a subgroup of board members on its compensation committee. A CEO's pay is partly a reward for leading the company and partly an inducement to keep him from leaving for greener pastures.
Compensation committees use their discretion, and that has led to claims of abuse by committees with too-cozy (or just plain incestuous) relations with the CEO. (Compensation consultants, often brought in to help figure out the "right" pay, have also been accused of currying favor with executives in the hope of securing other, more lucrative business from the company.) To shed more light on what had been a less-than-transparent process, the Securities and Exchange Commission mandated in 2006 that companies had to make their peer lists public.

http://www.slate.com/articles/business/the_dismal_science/2009/05/comparison_shopping.html

Given these numbers it is appropriate to look at who determines CEO pay -- compensation committees of boards of directors -- and explore what resources they have at their disposal. Compensation committee members
As long as they are not currently employees of the company, compensation committee members may be of any occupation or background. To benefit from their familiarity with executive pay methods and related laws, many boards select members who are CEOs from other companies. Other members may be attorneys, accountants, academics and representatives of investor groups. Most often the number of committee members is three. It is uncommon to have a committee with fewer than two members or more than five.

http://business.highbeam.com/412061...ay-decides-determining-executive-compensation

Finally, I don't think the increase in ratio between worker's wages and CEO salaries is because of "talent" when some of the most excessive salaries belonged to companies we had to bail out:

The government's top bailout watchdog accused the Treasury Department on Monday of failing to rein in "excessive" compensation at AIG, General Motors and Ally Financial.

Christy Romero, Special Inspector General for the Troubled Asset Relief Program, or SIGTARP, says in a new report that the three bailed-out firms "continue to lack an appreciation for their extraordinary situations and fail to view themselves through the lenses of companies substantially owned by the U.S. Government." The companies, she said, have argued that competitive pay packages are necessary to retain top executives.

http://money.cnn.com/2013/01/28/news/economy/bailout-pay-report/index.html

There appears to be this attitude by some in the United States that blue collar workers, service workers, etc., are in those jobs because they failed to do something, didn't work hard enough or simply aren't smart enough and thus don't deserve more. I take issues with that attitude.

Many CEOs earning obscene salaries got there through nepotism, luck and a sociopathic disregard for the rights of others while they claw their way to the top. It saddens me that many seem to venerate such people while poor servers who are just asking to be treated with respect and dignity and to be able to survive while working their tails off, are treated like lazy jerks who deserve what they have.

Well, IMO they are both jerks, the pastor and the receipt poster. Two bullies, who basically got theirs in the end. Both set out to be mean, and it backfired on them. She should have never posted anything. When Chelsea owns and runs her own business, she can break all her own rules all she wants, and then deal with lawyers, courts and the like.

Someone else on reddit created a support fund request for chelsea, almost every poster to that thread said nope. It has $0 in it so far. I say people have to learn that you can't post anything and everything to the internet, especially when it pertains to your job. Fair? I've read that fair is where you go to ride carnival rides, not life.

As for Applebees posting the other receipt - it was not in that link, sorry - I'll dig for that link to confirm it.

One person was standing up for a person who was being bullied by calling out the bully. The other person was using God to justify stiffing a hard working server who did their job and did it well. I don't understand how anyone can compare the two and find they were both bullies.

If we do not stand up for the least people we are as bad as the ones who harm them. The only way to stop bullies is to publicly out them for who they are and what they do.

Yes, Applebees pretty much had to fire the gal' for what she did - for business reasons, not moral ones - but she lost her job while standing up for someone who had been unjustly harmed. So she did the right thing even though it cost her. Comparing her to a bully is like comparing the family who posted the video of the father and son mocking their disabled daughter, to bullies. Makes no sense, IMO.

 

[redheadedgal]

a very interesting and entertaining blog:

http://rlstollar.wordpress.com/2013/02/02/applebees-overnight-social-media-meltdown-a-photo-essay/

 

[csziggy]

Good for Applebees! Tipping has gotten way out of control! People forget- a tip is a gift given to show appreciation to a service person for a job well done. It is NOT the customer's contribution to their salary! It should NEVER be mandatory.

Not directly intended for you, killarney, but for general information.

I am amazed at the number of people who do NOT realize that the Servers earn LESS THEN MINIMUM WAGE.

Technically Servers all received "minimum wage" but "minimum wage" for servers includes tips. Servers are to get $7.15 per hour but that includes tips. Since servers are expected to get tips, the store owners can pay them less, under Federal Law they only have to pay $2.13 per hour, the remaining $5.02 is to be made up in tips. Some states have different laws, to see what they are where you live see: http://www.dol.gov/whd/state/tipped2012.htm

This is abused by a lot of restaurants, a lot of servers tell me they do NOT get minimum wage, and when they complain to their boss, their boss tell them it is they fault for NOT providing enough service. The Restaurant owners are known NOT to make up the difference between what servers actually get in tips and minimum wage (even through by Federal Law they are suppose to), but that is another story.

If you don't want to be obligated to leave a tip, then ask your Congressmen to pass a law requiring restaurants to pay at least minimum wage. The way the system is now set up, by not leaving a tip, you are contributing to the poverty of the servers - which costs us all.

When I go out to eat I leave a minimum of a 20% tip, more if the service is very good and more at cheap restaurants than at fancy ones. At the cheap places, the food costs less, but the servers do just as much work on average. If I can't afford to tip, I don't go out to eat.

JMO

 

[gitana1]

a very interesting and entertaining blog:

http://rlstollar.wordpress.com/2013/02/02/applebees-overnight-social-media-meltdown-a-photo-essay/

Wow. You got that right. Jeez Louise. They are not handling this very well.

Oh and for those debating whether Applebees violated it;s own policy, from the article:

There was a repeated theme to the comments, which the media has so far not covered. Applebee’s, just two weeks ago, had — according to comments — violated another Guest’s right to privacy themselves by posting a picture of a note from a guest that clearly featured the guest’s name. Most interestingly, Applebee’s deleted this picture right when the Chelsea Welch issue went viral. Here’s the original picture, captured by If You Can’t Afford to Tip… via screen shot:

 

[gitana1]

Not directly intended for you, killarney, but for general information.

I am amazed at the number of people who do NOT realize that the Servers earn LESS THEN MINIMUM WAGE.

Technically Servers all received "minimum wage" but "minimum wage" for servers includes tips. Servers are to get $7.15 per hour but that includes tips. Since servers are expected to get tips, the store owners can pay them less, under Federal Law they only have to pay $2.13 per hour, the remaining $5.02 is to be made up in tips. Some states have different laws, to see what they are where you live see: http://www.dol.gov/whd/state/tipped2012.htm

This is abused by a lot of restaurants, a lot of servers tell me they do NOT get minimum wage, and when they complain to their boss, their boss tell them it is they fault for NOT providing enough service. The Restaurant owners are known NOT to make up the difference between what servers actually get in tips and minimum wage (even through by Federal Law they are suppose to), but that is another story.

If you don't want to be obligated to leave a tip, then ask your Congressmen to pass a law requiring restaurants to pay at least minimum wage. The way the system is now set up, by not leaving a tip, you are contributing to the poverty of the servers - which costs us all.

When I go out to eat I leave a minimum of a 20% tip, more if the service is very good and more at cheap restaurants than at fancy ones. At the cheap places, the food costs less, but the servers do just as much work on average. If I can't afford to tip, I don't go out to eat.

JMO

Thanks for this comment. In some states, though, like California, they do pay minimum wage plus tips but in AZ where my friend works, it is exactly as you have said and she often does not earn close to minimum wage. It's horrible.

 

[csziggy]

I have never understood why we are expected to tip in the first place. I do tip, of course, but why is that whole "server" thing even allowed? Why doesn't the restaurant pay a fair wage? It's not like the food is cheap in the first place so why are we expected to "pay" their employees wages? It's like Walmart requiring you to tip your cashier because they checked you out. I just don't get it.

:rant:
Walmart (and many other corporations who employ "service personnel") does not pay a minimum wage to many of their workers - in some areas as many as 80% of their employees qualify for food stamps. The economy would be in better condition if corporations (which are making record profits right now) would pay their employees a fair wage that allowed them to live above the poverty level.

See: http://www.winningwordsproject.com/walmart_is_the_largest_food_stamp_recipient_in_the_country

The article is very informative and the graphic there is long, but simple and powerful in its argument.
:rant:

 

[zippitydoda]

In case anyone is wondering...the former waitress that posted this receipt on Reddit claimed she was the table's waitress - we know now she wasn't. I don't think we can link to Reddit. But if you goggle, My mistake sir, I'm sure Jesus will pay for my rent and groceries - it should bring it up.

"No. They ran up well over 200$ before taxes or gratuity. They asked for separate checks, thinking it would get them out of the autograt, even though the same man paid for everything. They had no problem with my service, and told me I was great. They just didn't want to pay when the time came."

 

[gitana1]

In case anyone is wondering...the former waitress that posted this receipt on Reddit claimed she was the table's waitress - we know now she wasn't. I don't think we can link to Reddit. But if you goggle, My mistake sir, I'm sure Jesus will pay for my rent and groceries - it should bring it up.

"No. They ran up well over 200$ before taxes or gratuity. They asked for separate checks, thinking it would get them out of the autograt, even though the same man paid for everything. They had no problem with my service, and told me I was great. They just didn't want to pay when the time came."

Are we supposed to think badly of her for pretending to be the actual server when she posted the receipt even though she wasn't? Because I don't. She was making a point and it was easier to make that point by explaining things first person, instead of "my friend [this], my friend [that]."

What's more significant to me is that a group of supposedly religious people "asked for separate checks, thinking it would get them out of the autograt, even though the same man paid for everything."

 

[redheadedgal]

is there a link coming to substantiate the claim that the receipt posted by applebee's was posted with permission? the reason i ask is: reading the quote gitana posted that refers to the company deleting that post asap does not add up with it being posted with permission imo

???

 

[redheadedgal]

gitana-- you are an attorney: does chelsea have a claim for unfair dismissal with evidence of the receipt posting double standard?

 

[Steely Dan]

Because many of them can't find anything else. No one wants to work that hard for so little. But for many, it's just not a choice.



The average wage for car hops (the only ones who are tipped at Sonic), is $6.52 per hour (less tips). It ranges between $3.00 and $8.00 p/h. And that's today, not 15 years ago:http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Sonic-Salaries-E1303.htm

Similar stats are posted elsewhere: http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Employer=Sonic_Drive_-_In/Hourly_Rate

Here's an article explaining that: http://voices.yahoo.com/delivery-ta...nt-tipping-misconceptions-5849578.html?cat=22

It's incredible that your daughter, 15 years ago, managed to earn much more with wages and tips than the minimum wage is today. But the fact is, the minimum wage hasn't increased much since then. It's only increased by $2.60 in 15 years: http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0774473.html

This is a sluggish economy. Employers are paying less to employees and people are tipping less or going out less. It's a mess.

I posted about my friend who earns $4.75 p/h plus tips in AZ. That's less than the federal minimum wage, which they are allowed to do if the person receives tips:</ins>http://www.minimum-wage.org/arizona-tipped-employee-minimum-wage

As you can see, I was wrong. She actually earns less.



BBM.

Respectfully, I think it's all of our concern when CEO salaries are so high that regular worker's wages and benefits have to be reduced to ensure such salaries. I also think it is all of our concern when the same companies paying their CEOs revolting salaries, later get bailed out by our government.

Also, I'm not sure why you believe shareholders decide CEO salaries: http://www.nbcnews.com/id/11414878/ns/business-answer_desk/t/who-decides-how-much-ceo-makes/http://www.slate.com/articles/business/the_dismal_science/2009/05/comparison_shopping.htmlhttp://business.highbeam.com/412061...ay-decides-determining-executive-compensation

Finally, I don't think the increase in ratio between worker's wages and CEO salaries is because of "talent" when some of the most excessive salaries belonged to companies we had to bail out: http://money.cnn.com/2013/01/28/news/economy/bailout-pay-report/index.html

There appears to be this attitude by some in the United States that blue collar workers, service workers, etc., are in those jobs because they failed to do something, didn't work hard enough or simply aren't smart enough and thus don't deserve more. I take issues with that attitude.

Many CEOs earning obscene salaries got there through nepotism, luck and a sociopathic disregard for the rights of others while they claw their way to the top. It saddens me that many seem to venerate such people while poor servers who are just asking to be treated with respect and dignity and to be able to survive while working their tails off, are treated like lazy jerks who deserve what they have.



One person was standing up for a person who was being bullied by calling out the bully. The other person was using God to justify stiffing a hard working server who did their job and did it well. I don't understand how anyone can compare the two and find they were both bullies.

If we do not stand up for the least people we are as bad as the ones who harm them. The only way to stop bullies is to publicly out them for who they are and what they do.

Yes, Applebees pretty much had to fire the gal' for what she did - for business reasons, not moral ones - but she lost her job while standing up for someone who had been unjustly harmed. So she did the right thing even though it cost her. Comparing her to a bully is like comparing the family who posted the video of the father and son mocking their disabled daughter, to bullies. Makes no sense, IMO.

:goodpost: :clap:

 

[zwiebel]

I can't see the whole article but it looks like Applebees had a few disgruntled shareholders a few years back too. There was a whole lot more at stake than 20 dollars or so though:

http://nrn.com/corporate/applebee-s-settles-shareholder-lawsuit

 

[zwiebel]

Ha, Applebees got me too! I just waded through 151 pages of gumpf to get to the Executive Compensation section of their 2010 financial report (trying to find bosses' and maybe PR chief's pay). When I finally got there.......they referred me to another report. I couldn't face it and gave up.

Here's the link, for any proper sleuthers out there, page 151, item 11:
http://phx.corporate-ir.net/External.File?item=UGFyZW50SUQ9OTgzODV8Q2hpbGRJRD0tMXxUeXBlPTM=&t=1

ETA: DineEquity is the parent company. It runs IHop too.