April 22 weekend of Sleuthiness

[otto]

Certainly irrationality. Could be a loose screw, maybe intense selfishness combined with a feeling of invincibility (ability to commit the perfect crime), a brooding supressed but ultimately uncontrollable temper, or maybe he is just 'evil' (whatever that really means).

I really do believe he did it and that it is proven. I'm waiting for the defense to change my mind by shaking some of the prosecution's case.

Why would Nancy have stayed with him for so long if he had an uncontrollable temper, why would she push his buttons (affairs, overspending) if he was like that? Any thoughts?

 

[GhostCrab]

Exactly! He wasn't about to give up control of his wallet and plans to the State of N.C. He wanted all the control and when he found out Nancy had enough of a backbone and brain to contact an attorney - a good one at that - he took matters into his own hands. Remember, he had taken away all avenues for her to seek legal advice - or so he thought. Mom and Dad came through one more time and I think he realized he wasn't going to be fighting just Nancy in court - nope, he was going to be fighting Nancy, Mom, Dad, Sis, friends, an attorney, and the State. I think he saw the scales tipped a little too far to one side and came up with a brand new plan - a permanent trip for Nancy.

Giver her personality I imagine that it did not come as a surprise that she sought out the help of an attorney.

He didn't take away all her avenues to get legal advice. There are plenty of free legal services that she could have engaged to get advice and representation. But I do have to say, she probably hooked up with one of the more expensive family law attorneys in Wake County.

 

[zenreaper]

He's conveniently omitting any argument about how she could have been strangled on the open road. A 'world class athlete' (which she was most certainly not) would been hard to catch let alone kill without leaving any evidence of trauma on herself or her attacker.

The only rational argument is whoever killed her had the benefit of complete surprise. I don't think that is rationally possible on an open road.

But even with complete surprise, since there were no reports of head trauma indicating she was knocked out, regardless of the location, once the actual choking began, she would have responded physically, correct? I think she was either stopped or accosted (knife, gun, something), thought she could get away, waited for the opportunity, it never came.

As to WHO did it? I have my own speculation and reasoning, but I am not sure we are allowed to do that here, so I will refrain.

ETA: On the "World Class Athlete" thing, when you are fat and old like me, anyone who trains to run 26 miles without stopping, fits that category. I complained to my kids that I had to DRIVE 26 miles the other day, LOL.

 

[otto]

He's conveniently omitting any argument about how she could have been strangled on the open road. A 'world class athlete' (which she was most certainly not) would been hard to catch let alone kill without leaving any evidence of trauma on herself or her attacker.

The only rational argument is whoever killed her had the benefit of complete surprise. I don't think that is rationally possible on an open road.

I think he probably did do it, but the sad reality is that this is now reduced to a legal argument. A solid legal argument has to be made that he did it, and if there are any doubts, then he has to be found not guilty. If there is any chance that there was "spoilation of evidence", as with the cell phone, the jury has to not only wonder why, but to place doubt on the integrity of the investigation.

 

[calgary123]

Why would Nancy have stayed with him for so long if he had an uncontrollable temper, why would she push his buttons (affairs, overspending) if he was like that? Any thoughts?

She was trying to get out. He apparently only screamed at her (and she at him) prior to her death. Him not beating her beforehand doesn't in my mind make him any less capable of murder. Some of the mildest people on the outside have been proven serial killers.

As for why would Nancy behave that way, well she underestimated what he was capable of. She was not exactly someone who made a good wife either.

 

[Wyn]

Do we know if the police or others looked at security video from places along possible jogging routes for NC? Either while she was missing or after her body was found? Anytime?

Probably none of the red light cameras would have been on a preferred route for joggers, but I really don't know that part of Cary that well. Are the cameras still up in Cary?

Nancy could have only been caught on a "red light camera" if she happened to jog through an intersection just as someone ran the light. They don't film continuously. There are lots of traffic cameras in Cary, can be seen on a local tv channel at times, but none are in the areas she would have been jogging.

 

[calgary123]

I think he probably did do it, but the sad reality is that this is now reduced to a legal argument. A solid legal argument has to be made that he did it, and if there are any doubts, then he has to be found not guilty. If there is any chance that there was "spoilation of evidence", as with the cell phone, the jury has to not only wonder why, but to place doubt on the integrity of the investigation.

I agree entirely. Some decent defense evidence could still change my mind from guilty to not guilty, even though I'll still probably think he did it.

 

[otto]

But even with complete surprise, since there were no reports of head trauma indicating she was knocked out, regardless of the location, once the actual choking began, she would have responded physically, correct? I think she was either stopped or accosted (knife, gun, something), thought she could get away, waited for the opportunity, it never came.

As to WHO did it? I have my own speculation and reasoning, but I am not sure we are allowed to do that here, so I will refrain.

ETA: On the "World Class Athlete" thing, when you are fat and old like me, anyone who trains to run 26 miles without stopping, fits that category. I complained to my kids that I had to DRIVE 26 miles the other day, LOL.

I think you make an interesting point about injuries. Michelle Young was attacked while at home in bed. I think there was some indication of strangulation. There was an intense struggle and many believe that strangulation was the first murder weapon, and that a violent beating resulted from the struggle. It is surprising that there were no defensive wounds on Nancy or Brad.

 

[otto]

She was trying to get out. He apparently only screamed at her (and she at him) prior to her death. Him not beating her beforehand doesn't in my mind make him any less capable of murder. Some of the mildest people on the outside have been proven serial killers.

As for why would Nancy behave that way, well she underestimated what he was capable of. She was not exactly someone who made a good wife either.

The most dangerous time in a marriage is during separation.

 

[momof7]

That was the same discussion where she said "NC could turn into a "monster", so KL told her she needed to keep running to keep herself calm.

BC probably did the same, ran/worked out/exercised to relieve stress. Even though he appeared to be more of an introvert, I am sure he was human and stress is stress. It appeared his coping mechanism was very much similar to NC. BC stopped training, exercising, according to his avidavit sometime after the HM affair.

I think this my understanding of the 'how' of him breaking. This was ongoing for him. His ability to 'cope' was gone. He was not social, he did not vent to family and friends or coworkers etc. Socially introverted, shy people are that way for a reason, they have a tendency to be very anxious in situations and do no cope well. I do not think Brad has any coping skills whatsoever. He freezes and broods.

Kelly

 

[otto]

I agree entirely. Some decent defense evidence could still change my mind from guilty to not guilty, even though I'll still probably think he did it.

It looks like the testimony from the gang of neighbors has been balanced by testimony from neighbors that knew Brad as a good dad that was involved with his children. The bug evidence was iffy when it should have been solid. The medical examiner placed the time of death as late as 7 in the morning. The early morning phone calls could have been spoofed, but the lead detective agreed that there was no proof. The computer search of the drainage ditch is on the computer, but there's a big question about the invalid time stamps putting the search on the last day that Nancy was seen alive. I'm sure you know Brad well enough to know that he would be able to hide evidence like that and be careful to make it completely disappear if that was his intent. I suppose I'm still waitng for some decent evidence making it obvious that he is guilty, but right now I see a lot of "maybe, possible" but no clear connecting of the dots leading to an obvious conclusion that he is guilty.

 

[calgary123]

It looks like the testimony from the gang of neighbors has been balanced by testimony from neighbors that knew Brad as a good dad that was involved with his children. The bug evidence was iffy when it should have been solid. The medical examiner placed the time of death as late as 7 in the morning. The early morning phone calls could have been spoofed, but the lead detective agreed that there was no proof. The computer search of the drainage ditch is on the computer, but there's a big question about the invalid time stamps putting the search on the last day that Nancy was seen alive. I'm sure you know Brad well enough to know that he would be able to hide evidence like that and be careful to make it completely disappear if that was his intent. I suppose I'm still waitng for some decent evidence making it obvious that he is guilty, but right now I see a lot of "maybe, possible" but no clear connecting of the dots leading to an obvious conclusion that he is guilty.

The friends' testimony is nothing but flavoring the other evidence in my view and does not speak to innocence or guilt, other than showing how crappy their relationship was and setting up the reasons for the pending divorce, which circumstances are important.

The bug evidence was inconclusive but consistent with both side's theories as to time of death (but tipped in favor of the prosecution).

I disagree the computer search has a "big question" about it. I don't think Jay Ward's testimony was of such quality or specific enough to shake the validity of the computer evidence. Still waiting though. If the computer search is truly shaky Kurtz will have a well respected forensic expert retained for that. His choice of Jay Ward for a forensic analysis suggests he knows the search results do hold up to forensic analysis.

I agree it is odd that Brad left the tif files on his computer but did delete the cookie.

Otto, one of the big things for me is what I call Brad's "original lie". Check out post 160 on the April 1st weekend thread. I really think it gives Brad as big of a problem as the computer search evidence.

 

[gracielee]

HAPPY EASTER BUNNY MORNING :sunshine::grouphug:From :leaf2:

All caught up on readings.. and have been wondering why Brad or what could have been his trigger to plan this...Brad had been trying to control Nancy for months...ever since Nancy started to pursuit the separation, divorce, moving back to Canada with the girls....Since their relationship had been so antagonistic for months on end..What thoughts do you have was the final straw for Brad?? Here's some of my thoughts..

1) With Nancy and the girls being away the week prior (early July) returning on the Sunday prior to her death..maybe he had time to realize, that Nancy had support from her family and friends..and knew He wasnt going to be able to control things much longer?

2) Knew Nancy wouldnt leave both girls behind, and likely felt she wouldnt leave the house without them (kept one childs passport for insurance) because as all good Family Law lawyers tell their clients.."Dont leave the house or domain unless you HAVE to"...and suddenly he read that email from Realtor to Nancy about moving out and quik..which made him panic so to speak, that she would leave with kids SOON!!

3) He also knew a weekday would be impossible (due to work for him) and busy activity schedule for Nancy/friends and kids...SO Friday Night it had to be...apply the circumstances surrounding July 11th and onward...along with Brad's less than truthes and unusual activities..

So for me I think the notion (realization) that Nancy was about to MOVE OUT with girls soon was his final trigger to DO SOMETHING!!

Anyone else have a theory on just how far back Brad went in his plannings?

I think the fact that Brad never retained himself a divorce lawyer speaks volumes. Once he saw that rough draft, he began planning seriously IMO

 

[momof7]

I think the fact that Brad never retained himself a divorce lawyer speaks volumes. Once he saw that rough draft, he began planning seriously IMO

When thinking through the different posts here, there were postings re: his retaining someone but the check bounced. I wondered at that time if that was the moment he was starting to realize the downhill slope. NC parents had fronted them a huge amount of money throughtout the marriage if the testimony is correct and I heard correctly. When he wrote that check, knowing there was no money in the bank, he realized there was no one to borrow from, no support..that was NC family and they had already given her money to retain AS.

Kelly

 

[otto]

The friends' testimony is nothing but flavoring the other evidence in my view and does not speak to innocence or guilt, other than showing how crappy their relationship was and setting up the reasons for the pending divorce, which circumstances are important.

The bug evidence was inconclusive but consistent with both side's theories as to time of death (but tipped in favor of the prosecution).

I disagree the computer search has a "big question" about it. I don't think Jay Ward's testimony was of such quality or specific enough to shake the validity of the computer evidence. Still waiting though. If the computer search is truly shaky Kurtz will have a well respected forensic expert retained for that. His choice of Jay Ward for a forensic analysis suggests he knows the search results do hold up to forensic analysis.

I agree it is odd that Brad left the tif files on his computer but did delete the cookie.

Otto, one of the big things for me is what I call Brad's "original lie". Check out post 160 on the April 1st weekend thread. I really think it gives Brad as big of a problem as the computer search evidence.

I can't seem to find the quote you're referring to. Post 160 on the Apr 1 weekend thread seems to be about the bug guy.

 

[GhostCrab]

I think the fact that Brad never retained himself a divorce lawyer speaks volumes. Once he saw that rough draft, he began planning seriously IMO

Or maybe he couldn't afford one. He's a smart guy, maybe he saw himself handling it on his own.

 

[gracielee]

I notice that you equate Brad asserting his parental rights with being "controlling" and "asserting power" over Nancy. Brad has as much right as Nancy to raise his children. If it was Brad that was considering moving the children to another country and cutting Nancy out of their lives, would you view Nancy's objections as "controlling" or "asserting power"?

.

The problem with this is, Nancy had no way to support herself and her children. She was trapped in the house with Brad. those of us who want to leave our husbands, if all else fails, and we can't stand it, we can move out, get a job, rent a cheap place, and the hell with him. Nancy had absolutely no means of support in the U.S. and she couldn't go back to Canada with her children, she was TRAPPED. Now I don't know aboout the rest of you, but I can't stand being/feeling TRAPPED anywhere. I can't even sleep in a zipped up sleeping bag. I wake up clawing my way out of it, sweating, screaming. this is what gets to me the most about Nancy's situation. Being trapped, and being spied on in the most vile way. I don't think anybody wants to anoint nancy for sainthood. But nobody deserves to be controlled in such a way, nor to have their private mail read, listen to on the phones, etc.

 

[zenreaper]

The friends' testimony is nothing but flavoring the other evidence in my view and does not speak to innocence or guilt, other than showing how crappy their relationship was and setting up the reasons for the pending divorce, which circumstances are important.

The bug evidence was inconclusive but consistent with both side's theories as to time of death (but tipped in favor of the prosecution).

I disagree the computer search has a "big question" about it. I don't think Jay Ward's testimony was of such quality or specific enough to shake the validity of the computer evidence. Still waiting though. If the computer search is truly shaky Kurtz will have a well respected forensic expert retained for that. His choice of Jay Ward for a forensic analysis suggests he knows the search results do hold up to forensic analysis.

I agree it is odd that Brad left the tif files on his computer but did delete the cookie.

Otto, one of the big things for me is what I call Brad's "original lie". Check out post 160 on the April 1st weekend thread. I really think it gives Brad as big of a problem as the computer search evidence.

If there was other physical evidence, I would say the friends testimony would flavor it, but there is absolutely NO physical evidence that even points in his direction, IMHO.

 

[calgary123]

I can't seem to find the quote you're referring to. Post 160 on the Apr 1 weekend thread seems to be about the bug guy.

Bad time for a typo. 260

 

[sunshine05]

BC probably did the same, ran/worked out/exercised to relieve stress. Even though he appeared to be more of an introvert, I am sure he was human and stress is stress. It appeared his coping mechanism was very much similar to NC. BC stopped training, exercising, according to his avidavit sometime after the HM affair.

I think this my understanding of the 'how' of him breaking. This was ongoing for him. His ability to 'cope' was gone. He was not social, he did not vent to family and friends or coworkers etc. Socially introverted, shy people are that way for a reason, they have a tendency to be very anxious in situations and do no cope well. I do not think Brad has any coping skills whatsoever. He freezes and broods.

Kelly

I'm not sure if you know him personally, but I would find it impossible to make assumptions about one's coping skills, or even how you could classify someone as shy based on what we know from this case. Even with all the information I have read in this case, I could not assume things like that. I do know that he had plans to play tennis and he seemed active in Cisco volleyball at one point. He went away with his MBA class. He attended many of the Lochmere parties with his family. None of those things indicate shyness, to me. Or a lack of coping skills.