April 29 weekend of Sleuthiness

[Cheyenne130]

She knew NC had plans with HP who would worry if NC just didn't show up so the ball had to start rolling before then.

According to some, there is no one that knew that Nancy was supposed to go paint at JA's so why would she need to get the ball rolling? Why not let HP start the ball rolling?

 

[Bottle Cap]

SO, do you think it could have been the tee shirt or no?

I think it was the "Kaiser Soze Killed Laura Palmer" t-shirt.

 

[SleuthSayer]

It doesn't. But it sho' do keep the housing prices up. And the sterling reputation intact.

It does? Random criminals roaming the streets is good for housing prices?

 

[oenophile]

Vomiting happens after/during strangulation sometimes. It's in the books, and has been testified to by the Chief Medical Examiner Dr. Butts. Not saying there is proof that this happened with Nancy. That could have been what BC scrubbed off the foyer floor the morning of the 12th.

Actually its very rare, and it does not suggest that it would result in the evacuation of the entire stomach. And specifically, the research done is only in reference to hanging, not strangulation in general. Read here for more info:

 

[SleuthinNC]

According to some, there is no one that knew that Nancy was supposed to go paint at JA's so why would she need to get the ball rolling? Why not let HP start the ball rolling?

I said before but I'll recap.

To give the police the painting story and point the finger squarely at BC.

 

[SleuthinNC]

So was it Miss Scarlett in the library with the candlestick
OR
Colonel Mustard in the kitchen with the rope?

 

[less0305]

I know the theory that is floating around. And I know why nobody will spell it out.

Edit - I know the theory that is floating around with regard to JA's involvement, at least. It just makes me shake my head.

I can't imagine floating a theory on JA out in public with absolutely no proof of her involvement - that could equal lawsuit if JA had half a mind. It's really not prudent to be accusing someone of a murder when the police have not named that person a suspect or when the police have not provided any evidence of that person's involvement, or when police have cleared all others and charges have been filed against someone who does have evidence against them. With so much talk of WS in this case, wouldn't it be prudent for JA and JP to read here. I know I would if I got wind that people were publicly accusing me of a crime - particularly of murder. Just because someone thinks someone could have a motive or means to commit murder, it really wouldn't be smart to state that in a public forum. That's why we have police, the grand jury, and a legal system. We don't get to just slander people with no credentials or with no position of authority and really with no knowledge of what investigation that person has already undergone by those that do have the credentials and authority.

 

[Cheyenne130]

I said before but I'll recap.

To give the police the painting story and point the finger squarely at BC.

Do you believe that is a common M.O. of killers? They call the police to immediately point the finger at someone else because that will keep the suspicion off of them. (Dang! Why didn't Brad think of that!)

 

[sunshine05]

I understand that part of it, but I don't understand why she was calling LE so early. If she was involved, why didn't she just let it play out with time to spare.

I think if she was involved, she was a mess over it. She said in testimony she was sick to her stomach - twice, only two hours after she alleges NC was due at her home. That really makes me wonder. She had to find a way asap to focus the blame on BC and that she did.

 

[Tink56]

I don't remember the details, but I do remember that according to the entomologist and the medical examiner, it was possible that Nancy died as late as the morning (daylight) of July 12.

I haven't gone back to re-hear/watch this testimony, but I found Fran's post that does not agree with this....This was posted on the day of the testimony by Fran...

That time of 11 A.M. mentionted by the witness was June 11, 11 A.M. However since she was KNOWN and SEEN to be alive up until approximately 12 midnight 6/12, the time was between 1 A.M. and 6 A.M.(or was it 6:30?) June 12.

It was the def attorney who mentioned it near the end of his cross, he said 11 A.M., but he just forgot to mention that it was the PREVIOUS day. He did that to confuse the jury.

Hope the DA mentions that in his close.

JMHO
fran

Has anyone listened to the info again?

 

[sunshine05]

I know the theory that is floating around. And I know why nobody will spell it out.

Edit - I know the theory that is floating around with regard to JA's involvement, at least. It just makes me shake my head.

I don't quite know what is floating around about her involvement and haven't really seen anything that indicates any specifics, but maybe I missed some posts.

 

[WolfpackWoman]

I haven't gone back to re-hear/watch this testimony, but I found Fran's post that does not agree with this....This was posted on the day of the testimony by Fran...


Has anyone listened to the info again?

If you'll notice the posts immediately around that, it's already been corrected. That was not an accurate account of the entomologists testimony. The ento could ONLY narrow it down between sunrise and 11am. Because flies do not lay eggs at night. IF flies laid eggs at night, then it's possible it could push the time back. But again, there's no scientific certainty in that at all.

 

[CrimeAddict]

I can't imagine floating a theory on JA out in public with absolutely no proof of her involvement - that could equal lawsuit if JA had half a mind. It's really not prudent to be accusing someone of a murder when the police have not named that person a suspect or when the police have not provided any evidence of that person's involvement, or when police have cleared all others and charges have been filed against someone who does have evidence against them. With so much talk of WS in this case, wouldn't it be prudent for JA and JP to read here. I know I would if I got wind that people were publicly accusing me of a crime - particularly of murder. Just because someone thinks someone could have a motive or means to commit murder, it really wouldn't be smart to state that in a public forum. That's why we have police, the grand jury, and a legal system. We don't get to just slander people with no credentials or with no position of authority and really with no knowledge of what investigation that person has already undergone by those that do have the credentials and authority.

IMO JA has been through enough, imagine losing your best friend. I think people need to put themselves in her position. I really hope she doesn't read in here

 

[PokerPlayer]

Now see, for me, the tire tracks don't play into it at all. JMO, but I don't give them a second thought. We live on a very rural road, dead-ends into a circle much like that where Nancy Coopers body was dumped. I posted a picture I just happened to take when I was out walking my dogs, I think it might have been that big snowfall last christmas. Anyway, I walk the dogs down there very often, there are so many tire tracks from various vehicles that turn around down there. There is no way I'd be able to even begin to figure out which tire tracks are the latest, which go together, etc. In that gravel circle, there are so many tracks and ruts in the road. As a juror, I would have simply disregared that testimony.

Ok, I can see your argument, point taken. Did LE ever find any evidence that either of the Cooper vehicles had been at the location of the body? I know there was no proof of NC being in the trunk of the car.

 

[Cheyenne130]

I haven't gone back to re-hear/watch this testimony, but I found Fran's post that does not agree with this....This was posted on the day of the testimony by Fran...


Has anyone listened to the info again?

I think the defense did suggest 11:00 a.m. on Saturday and the bug guy said it was possible. Understanding how the scientific mind works, I get that. He did not say it was probable but it could not be ruled out. Maybe there were no flies around for some time. Maybe something else attracted them for some time. There are too many variables for a scientist to definitively say that it is proof that she died at this time. The defense took advantage of that to try and elicit reasonable doubt. However, it is reasonable that she died prior to 7 a.m. and was dumped in that location before the flies "woke up". MOO

 

[Cheyenne130]

I don't quite know what is floating around about her involvement and haven't really seen anything that indicates any specifics, but maybe I missed some posts.

I think he/she might be referring to the private messages being sent and some of those receiving the private messages may be sharing information with others. Just a guess.

 

[less0305]

Do you believe that is a common M.O. of killers? They call the police to immediately point the finger at someone else because that will keep the suspicion off of them. (Dang! Why didn't Brad think of that!)

I have said time and time and time again - people here are making arguments that Brad didn't even make for himself. Brad never once insinuated that anyone they knew could possibly be behind Nancy's death. Never! No, he went with the jogging murderer and had to stick with it. Had he used his little pointed forehead, he would have dressed NC in old shorts and a tee shirt and put a paint roller in her hand, then dumped her somewhere over by JA's house - apparently here, he would have had a home run.

 

[ncsu95]

FWIW, I can never get a complete answer to an entire alternate theory. As soon as a question pops up, we go back to someone else lying on the stand. Or what a heinous individual BZ must be. Or something that was eaten. Or not eaten. Or ducks. Or Facebook. At this point, the best I can work out from the SODDI folks is that JP did it to avoid child support although there seem to be no DNA test results in existence to support this - he either met her at Java Jive where she brought a child to prove its existence, or he abducted her into a van when no one was looking and made a beeline for Fielding. JA covered for him because she was mad at NC for having a friend who had the same name as her own husband and didn't get invited to the same party.

For what it's worth, I don't have an alternate theory.

 

[sunshine05]

Do you believe that is a common M.O. of killers? They call the police to immediately point the finger at someone else because that will keep the suspicion off of them. (Dang! Why didn't Brad think of that!)

He didn't need to because he is innocent.

It wasn't just the phone call. If it was, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

It was the made-up painting plans, the ducks and sticks, detergent brand, always wears all diamonds, never runs alone, always tells her when she runs with someone else, telling others not to talk to police because she is handling it, pointing to VOIP knowledge of BC on her affidavit, knowing her cell phone was in her car at the time of the call to the police, having meeting with the others so they could "sync" their affidavits, calling CD to tell her to write a negative affidavit on BC. Am I missing anything.

I don't understand how one can NOT be suspicious of this person.

 

[bloghooligan]

I don't remember the details, but I do remember that according to the entomologist and the medical examiner, it was possible that Nancy died as late as the morning (daylight) of July 12.

I just went back and listened to Butts testimony.

On direct he said that NC's TOD was consistent with when she was reported missing. Cummings had him clarify that TOD could be 12 hours before to 12 hours after her being reported missing (mid-morning on 7/12).

On cross, defense got Butts to agree that there was nothing inconsistent with NC TOD being 3, 4 or 5 hours after she reportedly left to go jogging at 7am.

Butts also agreed with the defense on cross that it takes the body 4-6 hours to completely empty the stomach (as was NC's) after a large meal.

His testimony with respect to vomiting said that vomiting would explain the empty stomach but that there was no evidence of her vomiting/not vomiting.

The BAC was .06 and could have been caused by normal body decomp. Too many factors in how the body processes caffiene.

The caffiene id'd in the autopsy could have been comsumed 7/11 or 7/12.