AR - Fully-Armed Sheriffs Remove 7 Homeschool Children from 'Prepper' Family

[Jersey*Girl]

Gitana, I have a legal question... These kids were removed a couple weeks ago, right? How can they (authorities) still be investigating? Does it normally take this amount of time for the children to be kept away from the parents without the parents being charged with a crime? That article I linked is from the 20th. From what I can see they haven't been charged as of yet. I haven't been on here so maybe I'm missing something?

 

[raeann]

Gitana, I have a legal question... These kids were removed a couple weeks ago, right? How can they (authorities) still be investigating? Does it normally take this amount of time for the children to be kept away from the parents without the parents being charged with a crime? That article I linked is from the 20th. From what I can see they haven't been charged as of yet. I haven't been on here so maybe I'm missing something?

I can answer this to some extent....if a CINC (Child in need of care) petition is filed, there does not HAVE to be a criminal charge in order for the children to be removed from the home and kept in a foster care or perhaps a placement with a relative. There is a well organized process that happens within the juvenile court/family court system that will allow as much time as needed to work with the family and continue to assess the situation. All parties are kept informed and all are given legal representation and opportunities to present their side to the court before any permanent placement change is determined. This may include further investigation, family therapy, drug testing of parents, parenting classes, individual therapy, etc. as is determined by the court and the various parities involved in the case.

This is NOT specific to this case but a quick and general overview of the CINC process once a child has been removed from the home by LE or other authorities.

 

[Confusion]

I was beat as a child. Repeatedly. The pain NEVER goes away. The physical damage might go away after a few hours / days but the psychological damage can definitely be everlasting. I was 14 the last time I had to drop my pants so my dad could beat me with a belt on my bare behind and that was the last night I ever spent in that house under his thumb. There is NO EXCUSE to condone abuse of a child. WTF is wrong with people to think that its ok to justify that jargon all being done in the name of the Saviour? The only thing those beatings did for me was taught me to despise my father and stepmother...which I feel nothing for either of them to this day. I'm 48, educated, married with a wonderful family, great wife and mother as well as friend - there is no good to come out of abuse but hostility and disrespect of the abuser. The reason I turned out so well isn't bc I was beat...it's bc I had a great Nona awesome friends' parents, wonderful neighbors - all that got involved to help save me. Sounds like a rant but its all unabashed truth.

I've always said that the wounds you can't see seem to leave the deepest scars. I felt like my mother taught some very "important" lessons - not the least of which was to only hit those who are smaller than you. During a lot of my parenting days, I'd ask myself - What would my mother do, and do the opposite. I would say that few, if any, abused children grow up to be responsible/successful adults because they were beaten, it was in spite of it. I was determined not to carry on several "family traditions", and hopefully I haven't. When my older son was 3, he was sitting on the floor watching Sesame Street one morning and I caught myself thinking, "I wish he'd do something wrong so I'd have an excuse to spank him." It startled me so much that I even thought it that I immediately looked up a number for, and made an appointment with, my first therapist. It's been over 35 years, and it still scares me to think about what his life might have been like if he had actually misbehaved before I had that thought.

I was one of those who never truly escaped, but I was lucky enough to learn to cope. I started setting boundaries once I had my own sons because I refused to allow them to be the next generation of scapegoats for anyone. I brought them to visit their grandparents, but as soon as I heard one derogatory comment, we got up and left (whether we had been there for a weekend or 5 minutes.) My mother actually learned fairly quickly, and wouldn't allow anyone to even "jokingly" insult me because she knew I'd take my boys and go home. Unfortunately it took her suffering with cancer for close to 15 years before I got completely over my resentment/anger toward her, but we were on pretty good terms before she died.

 

[Confusion]

Gitana, I have a legal question... These kids were removed a couple weeks ago, right? How can they (authorities) still be investigating? Does it normally take this amount of time for the children to be kept away from the parents without the parents being charged with a crime? That article I linked is from the 20th. From what I can see they haven't been charged as of yet. I haven't been on here so maybe I'm missing something?

More babbling from me. I'm not sure if it's that way everywhere, but I know in many places the parents don't have to be charged with any crime to lose their children. They may still be trying to determine if it would be more in the best interest of the children to charge the parents with a crime and force their own children to testify against them, or to just consider it a civil thing and protect the children without filing charges. MOO

 

[Morag]

If there has, indeed, been extreme corporal punishment in this family, that would explain why the kids are never taken to doctors. Pediatricians always ask questions when a child is injured. And if they are not satisfied with the initial answers, they ask more probing questions.

 

[MyBelle]

oh please...they believe in corporal punishment, alternative medicine, home school their children and take the Bible literally -
oh wait...what was the question? being charged outside of the WS court of public opinion?

I haven't seen any updates on any charges...

Actually, the entire state of Arkansas believes in corporal punishment. It's allowed in public schools. The father can preach all the scripture he wants because he has a Constitutional right to have religious freedom and freedom of speech. Nobody is being forced to read his blog but apparently some can't resist. lol.

While a national debate roils about professional athletes whacking kids, it seems useful to remember that 19 states still allow children to be hit in public school, sometimes to the point of bruising. A federal data analysis found that on average, one child is hit in public school every 30 seconds somewhere in the United States.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...es-still-allow-corporal-punishment-in-school/

 

[MyBelle]

http://www.arkansasmatters.com/stor...re-of-7-children/32027/-LL8EeoDqEyDfgFHdC5H_w

Garland County parents fight for their seven children in court Wednesday
Posted: Jan 20, 2015 11:57 PM EST
Updated: Jan 20, 2015 11:58 PM EST
By Matt Mershon, ReporterCONNECT

Considering the children seem to have the equivalent of a Whole Foods outside their back door, it is highly unlikely any of them are being starved.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

I listened but he is so boring and repetitious, that I wanted to say, 'Just beat me with a stick!' Honestly, I think I would prefer corporeal punishment to having to listen to him. I know many people who think as he does about "the rod" but if he is requiring his older children to disrobe so that he can hit them, well, there is another word altogether for that sort of practice.

According to this news article, a public high school requires students to drop their pants to display their buttocks and the school also has a witness watch.

"We bring them [the students] in, make sure they understand why they're here, what they've done wrong. we make sure they have nothing wrong with their person, their body or their bottom, no pumps or bruises that are already there," Gauntt said.

The district also notifies the student's parents and always has a witness present, typically another administrator.

"We never give more than three swats," Gauntt said.


http://www.kait8.com/story/24791277/corporal-punishment-still-relevant-in-nea-schools

 

[SStarr33]

I can't remember ever hearing of someone receiving a gentle beating, and the quote you responded to said
MOO

This was part of it too:

But hitting a child with something other than your hand, hitting a child on his/her bare backside with a wooden spoon or a paddle or a switch of some kind... No way in hell (or heaven) is that right or legal or civilized....or religious.

 

[SStarr33]

Yeah that statement was made in the context of explaining why he was wrong or confused when he stated that there were some valid concerns regarding the children - he is not religious so he doesn't understand why it's not okay to beat children.

I heard the devotional. Sick stuff. He has all his children sitting in total silence for 35 minutes as he delivers a lecture in which he tries to justify, over and over again, "beating, not spanking" his kids. The youngest is four. Yet not one kid makes a sound, for 35 minutes.

He talks about beating his kids with a rod so intensely they feel they are being killed. He talks about not letting "you go off to your room to sulk" where the kid will think about how much he hates the place or will seek revenge on the father. This indicates he is "correcting" these kids in the presence of others.

He also states that he must continue to "chastise" the child even if they are screaming in pain.

Yeah, there's a problem with that family.

I think it is pretty clear that if this is going on, no one on this thread will think it is ok.

 

[Charlie09]

If there has, indeed, been extreme corporal punishment in this family, that would explain why the kids are never taken to doctors. Pediatricians always ask questions when a child is injured. And if they are not satisfied with the initial answers, they ask more probing questions.

or maybe...they aren't sick enough to need doctors...

I know, I know, it's a shock that not every parent feels like they need parenting advice from doctors, but some don't.

 

[Morag]

or maybe...they aren't sick enough to need doctors...

I know, I know, it's a shock that not every parent feels like they need parenting advice from doctors, but some don't.

It's quite hard to believe that none of those children have ever needed to see a doctor. No ear infections, no wound requiring stitches, no vaccinations, no strep throat or scarlet fever, etc. I used my copy of Dr. Spock to analyze my son's illness, and when a doctor was recommended, I took him.

 

[daisytrail]

According to this news article, a public high school requires students to drop their pants to display their buttocks and the school also has a witness watch.

"We bring them [the students] in, make sure they understand why they're here, what they've done wrong. we make sure they have nothing wrong with their person, their body or their bottom, no pumps or bruises that are already there," Gauntt said.

The district also notifies the student's parents and always has a witness present, typically another administrator.

"We never give more than three swats," Gauntt said.


http://www.kait8.com/story/24791277/corporal-punishment-still-relevant-in-nea-schools

I find this policy to be absolutely disgusting!

 

[MyBelle]

or maybe...they aren't sick enough to need doctors...

I know, I know, it's a shock that not every parent feels like they need parenting advice from doctors, but some don't.

It's a shock to me that the government can knock on your door and seize children and keep them for weeks based on allegations made by an anonymous caller. I can see it happening if the call had been made by a mandated reporter such as a doctor. The Stanley children were seen by a doctor in the ambulance that night but it doesn't sound like any of them had a medical condition that required treatment, such as toxicity from the supplement.

JMO

 

[Confusion]

I think it is pretty clear that if this is going on, no one on this thread will think it is ok.

BBM
Sorry, but that's not clear to me. A few have already said they see nothing wrong with it. MOO

 

[MyBelle]

I find this policy to be absolutely disgusting!

Maybe so but the policies are set by the people who live there and that's the way it always has been.

JMO

 

[daisytrail]

It's a shock to me that the government can knock on your door and seize children and keep them for weeks based on allegations made by an anonymous caller. I can see it happening if the call had been made by a mandated reporter such as a doctor. The Stanley children were seen by a doctor in the ambulance that night but it doesn't sound like any of them had a medical condition that required treatment, such as toxicity from the supplement.

JMO

I believe that in some states all adults are required to report suspected abuse. Maybe someone knows for sure.

 

[MsFacetious]

It's quite hard to believe that none of those children have ever needed to see a doctor. No ear infections, no wound requiring stitches, no vaccinations, no strep throat or scarlet fever, etc. I used my copy of Dr. Spock to analyze my son's illness, and when a doctor was recommended, I took him.

I am very much of the belief that most things can be treated at home.
Unless my child needs antibiotics, x-rays or is too sick for me to care for.
However, we do the yearly well child checks even when the kids are healthy.
That yearly blood work is CRUCIAL in my opinion to catching conditions and cancers. :twocents:

 

[raeann]

It's a shock to me that the government can knock on your door and seize children and keep them for weeks based on allegations made by an anonymous caller. I can see it happening if the call had been made by a mandated reporter such as a doctor. The Stanley children were seen by a doctor in the ambulance that night but it doesn't sound like any of them had a medical condition that required treatment, such as toxicity from the supplement.

JMO

They were NOT removed based on allegations of an anonymous caller. The LE statement makes it clear that they were removed because of what the responding officials personally observed while in the home and speaking with the children and parents.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

I believe that in some states all adults are required to report suspected abuse. Maybe someone knows for sure.

Here is a list of requirements to report by state. It may not be current to date.

https://www.childwelfare.gov/pubPDFs/manda.pdf