AR - Josh Duggar Admits Molesting Girls As A Teenager - #1

[gitana1]

Thank you for sharing your story. That is very brave of you. I want you to know you are not alone. I, too, was abused by my older brother as a child and my parents blamed me for it too. I thought the abuse had no effect on me for the longest time. I was depressed but just chalked it up to being born clinically depressed.

About 3 years ago, the abuse hit me like a ton of bricks and I went to my parents and asked them why they had allowed me to be abused, never protected me from my abuser, and blamed me for it. They always covered up for HIM and protected HIM so no one would find out what he did. All the while, they never protected me, ever. He is still abusive to this day to his significant other. To this day my parents still cover for him, knowing that he is now abusive to his gf. I asked my mother to please just tell me it wasn't my fault and that I didn't deserve it and she was silent. I told her I was suicidal as a result of the abuse now taking a toll on me. She didn't care, neither did my dad. I had to cut them out of my life too, they hurt me too much.

I cut them out of my life almost 3 years ago at the age of 32. This year, I was hospitalized twice for being suicidal. I was diagnosed with depression, anxiety and ptsd from the abuse. I feel as if I want to die a lot of the time. Because I feel worthless and unlovable. My parents didn't love me enough to protect me when I was a child and now that Im suffering the long term effects of the abuse they will do nothing to be there for me, because they are still protecting him. They still don't love me enough to help me through my struggles with the abuse. Just the last couple of days I have been struggling so badly I thought I might have to be hospitalized again, but I managed to stay home and safe.

This is what worries me for the Duggar girls. They look happy now, but what about years from now when they're older? Will it completely destroy their minds like it has mine?

My gosh Poppy. They may not have cared but your friends here at websleuths sure as heck do. You were a precious child who did nothing to cause what was done to you and nothing to deserve it.

Every day fellow sleuthers who reveal their abuse astound me with their strength and compassion. Every one of you who've gone through such torment are heroic- for surviving it and for having the courage to tell others thereby teaching people like me and helping to protect other possible victims.

I'm humbled by you all. I've learned so much from you.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

So you've never kissed anyone?

Jessa: Nope — well, I mean my brothers! I think all of us girls have really purposed to save our first kiss for our wedding day.

Have you ever been curious about what it's like?
Jessa: I can't say I haven't been, but it's the anticipation, the suspense! It's like Christmas morning, you know? Open this special package so it'll be fun!

Are you going to ask anyone for advice?
Jessa: I'm sure I'll be getting advice from people who are good kissers!

Like who?
Jessa: My parents are pretty good kissers! They very much like to show their kiss in public places, so they kiss in front of us all the time. [And I'd ask] my oldest brother. He's been married for five years. And friends and people around me who I look up to. But I don't think it's too hard to figure out though.

http://www.cosmopolitan.com/enterta...ggar-girls-on-alcohol-and-first-kiss/?src=rss

 

[gitana1]

I wish that were true too, but I highly doubt it. Or if they did, Jim Bob would have made them turn the money over to him. Do you think any of the girls has a checking account or independent access to family money?

I do think it's possible they have separate bank accounts.

This is an interesting list of rules in the Duggar house (from TLC's web site), considering the molestation.View attachment 75253

http://www.tlc.com/tv-shows/19-kids-and-counting/photos/duggar-home-pictures/

I feel these rules combined would make it quite difficult for a little girl to come forward if such a thing was done to her.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

I don't mean this flippantly, but I'm surprised those rules don't include "keep your hands to yourself." I heard that over and over in school growing up. Since kids tend to pinch, poke, push, and prod each other.

 

[LinasK]

That is yucky, but not necessarily restricted just to fundamentalist families. I once brought my daughter at about age 8 to get her long hair cut short - at her request. The hairstylist asked her, "Does your father know you're doing this? Is he okay with it?" I was floored!! We don't live in the South. The stylist was not joking.

My father was super pissed when I got my hair cut short not long before my high school graduation, so another day when my hair had grown out and it was hot, so I put it in a ponytail, he freaked out thinking I had cut it again! And I was over 18- an adult!!! Too bad Dad, I'm a feminist, thanks in part to overhearing him tell my older sister in front of me that her only career options were stewardess or secretary!!!

 

[LinasK]

No, of course not. None of this is their fault. Unfortunately, they come from a movement that blames victims and blames girls and women for male behavior. I suspect that is very deeply and painfully ingrained and they would need so much help in healing. I do hope they get them help they need and someday get out.

I didn't come from this type of background, and yet for years I still blamed myself for my uncle molesting me. The thinking that there must be something about me that he chose to do that to me!!!

 

[Donjeta]

This is an interesting list of rules in the Duggar house (from TLC's web site), considering the molestation.View attachment 75253

http://www.tlc.com/tv-shows/19-kids-and-counting/photos/duggar-home-pictures/

Well that pretty much says the girl, in addition to considered guilty of defrauding the hapless molester, would be considered guilty of being a talebear (unless there was a threat of violence), and if she got upset in the first place she'd still have to be nice to the abuser and if she didn't manage to get over her abuse before the sunset she'd be guilty of holding a grudge too.

Have these parents NO sense?

At least there should be a rule, "you can tell anything to mommy and daddy" and "it's not okay to touch in ways that are not okay to the other person". It would cover hitting and kicking too.


Regardless of a molestation context, I hate these rules because they make it obligatory to repress anger and negative feelings about anything. It's OK and necessary to teach kids how to handle conflicts peacefully but this goes way beyond in making having emotions and showing them a crime.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

No. No, the parents have no sense.

I have been thinking about what it must be like to be a child in that family. ZERO privacy, except possibly to go to the bathroom. Cameras on you a good deal of the time.

That alone aside.

I just bet that like every other celebrity, the females in that family and probably the males have crazed stalkers who write them nasty letters and so forth and in some cases may constitute real threats (see Rebecca Schaeffer).

Who is responsible for that? The parents. It's not as if the children sought to be performers in the public eye. They had no choice in the matter.

Just think, this kind of life under the cameras must seem normal to them. How sad.

ETA: And if the girls do get letters like that? Do the parents blame them for not being modest enough and therefore inviting it?

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Well that pretty much says the girl, in addition to considered guilty of defrauding the hapless molester, would be considered guilty of being a talebear (unless there was a threat of violence), and if she got upset in the first place she'd still have to be nice to the abuser and if she didn't manage to get over her abuse before the sunset she'd be guilty of holding a grudge too.

Have these parents NO sense?

At least there should be a rule, "you can tell anything to mommy and daddy" and "it's not okay to touch in ways that are not okay to the other person". It would cover hitting and kicking too.


Regardless of a molestation context, I hate these rules because they make it obligatory to repress anger and negative feelings about anything. It's OK and necessary to teach kids how to handle conflicts peacefully but this goes way beyond in making having emotions and showing them a crime.

Nearly all of the rules could be crossed off that list and replaced with one big rule; In this family we pretend to be happy all the time and repress everything else.

So ugh ..

 

[Boytwnmom]

I agree with what you've said. But I don't think these girls wanted any of this to come out. If I had been sexually assaulted I wouldn't want my private pain and victimization public. Some people choose to be public about those things to help others but this was no choice for the girls.

Although I feel there was a major coverup from beginning to end, if I were the judge reading the petition I might have ruled the same way. Because the fact that they are a celebrity family means that even if the records were sealed someone could access and release them illegally, for profit, and one victim is still a minor.

Since now there is an admission and now no chance of prosecution, but social services records remain in existence, and can be used if anything else happens, to assess the family, weighing and balancing the pros and cons, the risks to society, the family and the victims, I might have granted such a petition.

I don't know. But it's high time these girls were granted some agency over their own lives and I really think the petition to destroy didn't occur due to parents forcing a reluctant child. She may has been prompted by a family eager for damage control but I think any teen public figure would be mortified and want desperately to keep such details private.

But the records should have been properly redacted not destroyed. Why does the perpetrator get to benefit from what should be the victim's protection? The whole problem stems from not dealing with it properly to begin with because of the special treatment afforded the Duggars. The fact he abused his sisters would have never been known nor would even his actions if they had been adjudicated while he was a juvenile. The records would have been properly and legally sealed.

My point was this destruction had to be orchestrated by the parents. These minor girls study from religious materials and have no legal training and I doubt they would think up a motion to expunge on their own. This was again not about protecting the victims but about trying to salvage the families media presence. The girls were victimized by this getting out because of the way Jim bob decided to handle it back when it happened. If everyone had done the right thing there would have been no records to produce in response to a FOIA request.

But I think there needs to be an in depth investigation about official misconduct. A lot of people did not fulfill their official and statutory duties. Who asked for what "favors"? This is not the only disturbing AR situation involving child sexual abuse and the manipulation of the legal system.


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[Donjeta]

No. No, the parents have no sense.

I have been thinking about what it must be like to be a child in that family. ZERO privacy, except possibly to go to the bathroom. Cameras on you a good deal of the time.

That alone aside.

I just bet that like every other celebrity, the females in that family and probably the males have crazed stalkers who write them nasty letters and so forth and in some cases may constitute real threats (see Rebecca Schaeffer).

Who is responsible for that? The parents. It's not as if the children sought to be performers in the public eye. They had no choice in the matter.

Just think, this kind of life under the cameras must seem normal to them. How sad.

ETA: And if the girls do get letters like that? Do the parents blame them for not being modest enough and therefore inviting it?

It blows my mind that the parents chose the zero privacy road, knowing how celebrities are scrutinized, AFTER their oldest son had molested several of his sisters.

They must have known there was a risk that it would come out some day, so many people knew something about it. Even if they didn't give a darn about the risk of the girls being revealed as sexual abuse victims, and having to cope with that in front of the cameras, what about Josh? Didn't they even care about the risk that their precious firstborn might lose his reputation nationally and be damned in the eyes of a world as an incestuous child abuser? What if the cameras had caught him unaware, getting under somebody's dress?

 

[LinasK]

But the records should have been properly redacted not destroyed. Why does the perpetrator get to benefit from what should be the victim's protection? The whole problem stems from not dealing with it properly to begin with because of the special treatment afforded the Duggars. The fact he abused his sisters would have never been known nor would even his actions if they had been adjudicated while he was a juvenile. The records would have been properly and legally sealed.

My point was this destruction had to be orchestrated by the parents. These minor girls study from religious materials and have no legal training and I doubt they would think up a motion to expunge on their own. This was again not about protecting the victims but about trying to salvage the families media presence. The girls were victimized by this getting out because of the way Jim bob decided to handle it back when it happened. If everyone had done the right thing there would have been no records to produce in response to a FOIA request.

But I think there needs to be an in depth investigation about official misconduct. A lot of people did not fulfill their official and statutory duties. Who asked for what "favors"? This is not the only disturbing AR situation involving child sexual abuse and the manipulation of the legal system.


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BBM. Absolutely!

 

[IzzyBlanche]

In his post, titled "Grace Greater Than Our Sin," Seewald says Josh’s disturbing behavior is merely human, claiming he “didn’t sin because he was repressed, he sinned because like all of us he is a sinner.”

What a load of horse pucky. Of course all of us sin. Most of us don't commit sexual sins against children, though. Much less our own siblings.

For shame.

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertai...-writes-defense-josh-duggar-article-1.2235267

 

[Donjeta]

Nearly all of the rules could be crossed off that list and replaced with one big rule; In this family we pretend to be happy all the time and repress everything else.

So ugh ..

Because Jesus loves fake people.

 

[Boytwnmom]

Well that pretty much says the girl, in addition to considered guilty of defrauding the hapless molester, would be considered guilty of being a talebear (unless there was a threat of violence), and if she got upset in the first place she'd still have to be nice to the abuser and if she didn't manage to get over her abuse before the sunset she'd be guilty of holding a grudge too.

Have these parents NO sense?

At least there should be a rule, "you can tell anything to mommy and daddy" and "it's not okay to touch in ways that are not okay to the other person". It would cover hitting and kicking too.


Regardless of a molestation context, I hate these rules because they make it obligatory to repress anger and negative feelings about anything. It's OK and necessary to teach kids how to handle conflicts peacefully but this goes way beyond in making having emotions and showing them a crime.

And that's straight from Gothard and was often used to cover up abuse. He has booklets about How to Guard Against the Defilement of listening to an Evil Report and similar topics that have been shared and discussed thoroughly at Recovering Grace.

But the Good Report one is particularly, well, evil. In a familiar pattern it puts the burden on the victim, saying if they want to report something bad about someone, they first have to deeply examine themselves and only if they are completely blameless can they proceed, but only biblically, which means you first have to confront the offender. http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2014/03/silencing-the-lambs-twisting-matthew-18/

"Warning 1: We may not proceed unless we are 100 percent clear of any blame for the offender’s actions: “We cannot follow the steps of Matthew 18 if there is even the slightest offense or attitude or neglect on our part which has contributed to a brother's offense.” (p. 6)
Warning 2: Do not talk to anyone else about the problem. “If we tell anyone else about an offending brother before talking to him, we create three problems”:
1. We prove to God and others that we don’t love our offender, and therefore don’t love the Lord.
2. We tempt the person hearing us to “take up an offense,” and may destroy strong friendships.
3. We prove that we do not sincerely want to restore; consequently, our chances of seeing the offender restored are damaged, and we are wrongly sitting as judge over the person."

And it goes on and on. By the time you go through all these hoops and exercises Gothard must assume you'll be too exhausted and demoralized to pursue the wrongdoing, which is how both his brother and then himself were allowed to abuse girls and women employees for many years.



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[IzzyBlanche]

While some fans have criticized Duggar’s parents, Jim Bob and Michelle, in the aftermath of the molestation scandal for not publicly disclosing the situation sooner, Seewald said that they are also not to blame and acted as “godly parents should.”

“How many of you would broadcast the sins of your children to the whole world? Would you be willing to publicize your own darkest moments?” Seewald, a devout Christian, asked in the blog post.

What a [self-imposed] modsnip modsnip.

OF COURSE no responsible parents would broadcast the sins of their children to the whole world, but responsible parents would have contacted the proper authorities and gotten proper treatment for their children and not then gone on TV to strut about as exemplary parents raising exemplary children all the time aware of their eldest's dark deeds.

For that matter none of the children's sins would ever have been made public knowledge if the parents hadn't chosen to make them public figures.

Hasn't anyone ever before questioned the disparity between the parents' stated lifestyle goals and rules for their children yet their allowing their lives to become a TV series?

Sheesh. What a bunch of [self-imposed] modsnipping modsnip modsnips.

http://time.com/3895845/duggar-josh-molestation-scandal-tlc-19-kids-and-counting-michael-seewald/

 

[gitana1]

What a load of horse pucky. Of course all of us sin. Most of us don't commit sexual sins against children, though. Much less our own siblings.

For shame.

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertai...-writes-defense-josh-duggar-article-1.2235267

It gets worse. Did you know that Josh was just "playing doctor"? Did you know his victims are equally to blame? Did you know the abuse had "eternal consequences of great benefit and glory to God" to both victims and abuser?: http://m.nydailynews.com/news/natio...-josh-duggar-playing-doctor-article-1.2234641

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Of course. Because it's perfectly natural for a 14-year-old to play doctor.

On the other hand, maybe it is if he has had no education whatsoever in human anatomy and reproduction. Just been instructed not to think about such things.

 

[gitana1]

You know, I'm feeling for the now unmarried Duggar kids. The single Duggars were a hot commodity in fundamentalist independent Baptist circles. They all had their pick among the best. That's all changed in one fell swoop.

They are no longer fundamentalist royalty. As much as their apologists try to minimize what's happened, it has destroyed their status.

 

[LaborDayRN]

Brave Song22 and PoppyFrock, I'm so sorry that you experienced what you did and my heart breaks that no one protected you. You have been so brave sharing your stories. Bless you. :grouphug: