AR - Josh Duggar Admits Molesting Girls As A Teenager - #1

[gitana1]

I didn't get to watch a game in " PEACE" until my son was old enough to enjoy football , too. But I don't ever remember thinking I was missing out. We jsut watched the game, tended the kids. Games were not as important as the kids..... call me crazy !

I know. It's called parenting, right? Please. This attitude is in total opposition to basic child development. What baby or toddler can sit still for any real length of time? Especially for a whole game? Total child abuse.

 

[Bravo]

I must have assumed since John David bought a house he moved. The male figures sure are not as prominent in the show as the females. Kinda goes against what they believe is a sense. Then again the girls top the ratings and $ seems to talk. Dang hypocrites! I cant believe I watched for so long yet knew so little!

 

[Hez]

From: 'The Duggars: 20 and Counting!' pgs. 126-129:


"Throughout the day, when I knew I would have five minutes or more of uninterrupted time, I would focus on blanket training, calling out, “Okay, boys! It's blanket time! Oh, isn't this fun? Come pick a toy so we can have blanket time.” Some days we might practice blanket time three or four times; other days we got it in once. But gradually, it became a common practice. The boys learned to spread out their own blankets, then they eagerly chose a special toy to play with.


Gradually, I increased the duration of blanket time, praising them for sitting quietly and playing with their toy on the blanket and correcting them when they tried to get off. If they threw the toy off the blanket, they weren't allowed to get off the blanket to get it back. As a result, they learned not to throw their toys!


As the blanket training continued over several days, I would walk around the corner, out of their sight but still able to peek around and see them. If one of them made a loud noise or got off the blanket, I would come flying in with a stern word and a quick correction. I didn't raise my voice, and I didn't sound angry. But it was obvious that crawling off the blanket or making noise wasn't allowed.


Meanwhile, the other twin, the one who hadn't made the noise or crawled off the blanket, was watching what was happening to his brother and thinking, Ohhh. I don't want that to happen to me, so I'm gonna sit here on my blanket, and play with my toy and be quiet.


There were some rules we had to figure out as we went along. For instance, they had to sit on their blanket. They couldn't stand or kneel or twist themselves into a pretzel shape. Gradually they learned the self-control of sitting quietly, and when they did, I praised them enthusiastically.


The first time I used blanket time in public, I took the boys along to a baby shower and spread out their blankets just inside the next room while I sat near the doorway, watching what was going on at the shower and also keeping an eye on them. The other guests were amazed that two active little boys could sit quietly on their blankets and happily entertain themselves for as long as thirty minutes. I was just as amazed myself! The mom who shared this concept with me said, “It's like having a playpen in your purse!”


This training happened while Jim Bob was serving in the legislature, and it let us enjoy many more uninterrupted adult conversations with each other or with friends, whereas before we were constantly having to turn our attention to a child who was determined to wander off or make noise."

Before TLC signed the Duggars, there were more detailed descriptions of Duggar-style blanket training in a Christian parenting chat room that Michelle Duggar was a part of. She was a part of a guest chat. She explained she didn't start this until the boy twins were born. She explained how she used a flexible ruler on the boys and actually lured them off the blanket with toys and then hit them. The parts describing Michelle Duggar hitting her kids have been edited from saved chats.

Talk about sucking the life out of your child, one blanket at a time. :facepalm:

 

[Bravo]

Not sure what channel i was watching earlier but there is a petition out there to cancel the show. If i get a minute I'll look for it online.

 

[Donjeta]

Does Michelle actually like having all those kids? It must be fun getting pregnant and all the "wow, 14, 15, 16, 17 kids, how do you cope, you must be a supermom..." stuff she's been hearing. But then once the babies are weaned she picks somebody else to be their buddy and the blanket thingy sounds like something you'd do when you dislike watching your kids being kids.

In one video the kids were having a dispute over a ball and she told the youngest, "the world doesn't revolve around Josie" using her soft voice but saying that to a toddler sounded kind of snarky and mean somehow, irritated. The kids were just being kids and wanted to play with a ball.

 

[kdgdid]

I wonder where the other 5 or 6 kids were and who was actually looking after them when this "training" was going on

Yeah because as parents we are not supposed to have to pay actual attention to our kids...

 

[gitana1]

Not sure what channel i was watching earlier but there is a petition out there to cancel the show. If i get a minute I'll look for it online.

I'm positive a petition will not be needed.

 

[Bravo]

I'm positive a petition will not be needed.

LOL but it is somewhat heart warming for them to note how the public feels (for me lol)

 

[oh_gal]

Does Michelle actually like having all those kids? It must be fun getting pregnant and all the "wow, 14, 15, 16, 17 kids, how do you cope, you must be a supermom..." stuff she's been hearing. But then once the babies are weaned she picks somebody else to be their buddy and the blanket thingy sounds like something you'd do when you dislike watching your kids being kids.

In one video the kids were having a dispute over a ball and she told the youngest, "the world doesn't revolve around Josie" using her soft voice but saying that to a toddler sounded kind of snarky and mean somehow, irritated. The kids were just being kids and wanted to play with a ball.

I think she views her ability to have so many children as a direct measure of her worth to her husband. More kids = I am a worthy wife, to be esteemed among other women, and a shining example of God's blessings to, and favor with, my husband. Needless to say, as the months go on and on without another pregnancy as her fertility wanes, it must be quite a bitter pill for her to swallow.

 

[gitana1]

Does Michelle actually like having all those kids? It must be fun getting pregnant and all the "wow, 14, 15, 16, 17 kids, how do you cope, you must be a supermom..." stuff she's been hearing. But then once the babies are weaned she picks somebody else to be their buddy and the blanket thingy sounds like something you'd do when you dislike watching your kids being kids.

In one video the kids were having a dispute over a ball and she told the youngest, "the world doesn't revolve around Josie" using her soft voice but saying that to a toddler sounded kind of snarky and mean somehow, irritated. The kids were just being kids and wanted to play with a ball.

I don't have a problem with her parenting in that segment. She was trying to teach Josie to be patient and take turns. I'm more worried about what happens behind closed doors. But I actually think their parenting became less harsh over the years. Little hints suggest that.

I sure hope that's the case.

 

[Donjeta]

I don't have a problem with her parenting in that segment. She was trying to teach Josie to be patient and take turns. I'm more worried about what happens behind closed doors. But I actually think their parenting became less harsh over the years. Little hints suggest that.

I sure hope that's the case.

All the kids have to be taught to take turns, I don't have a problem with that either... just what I perceived to be unnecessary snark. "Everybody has to wait for their turn" would convey the same message about waiting without the "oh what a selfish brat you are" undertones in "the world doesn't revolve around you"

 

[cocomod]

To start this question, I will admit that I have never watched an episode of the Duggars. I have been following the media frenzy, and it has stirred a curiosity in me. Several years ago, there were some "incidents" involving neighborhood boys. The incidents were first discovered by one mom, who approached the parents of the other boys to discuss the "situation". It was deemed by the parents of the other boys to just be "curiosity" (what we may have called "playing doctor"). But, it was interesting that one of the things that happened with these boys is the oldest child was comparing sizes of all of the boys in the neighborhood. It involved boys of varying ages, with the oldest boy being at least 6 years older that the victim. Unfortunately, the curiosity turned into something a little more one day. The oldest boy offered his younger brother a candy bribe to perform oral $3x on the neighborhood child. Other incidents also apparently occurred involving stimulation of one kind or another.

Now, these neighbors went to the authorities once the "curiosity" escalated. All of the boys involved were interviewed. The stories all came out as what had happened, and it matched the "victim's" stories. And, do you know what happened to the juvenile boys that started this? Nothing. A file was made, and it was said that if anything else was reported, they would be put in to counseling. However, they were only offered counseling, and it was not forced. A file was created, but it was not considered a criminal matter.

My question is - do we know for certain that even if the events were reported back when it actually happened, would he have a criminal record? Would it have actually been treated differently than my neighbor's complaint? I absolutely think that what Josh did was wrong! I absolutely think that at 14 years old, he should not have had any inclination to do such a thing to his sisters. But, would the "system" have actually done anything more than advise his parents to get him in to counseling? I am not being snarky, but I am seriously curious about this situation. I only have the one neighbor's experience to go off of, and I was SHOCKED that the "system" did so little.

I also want to add that the house with the boys that started this was a very full household of children. I cannot imagine how the children even knew what oral *** was, but I did wonder about how private the parents kept their intimacy from their children.

 

[Hiandmighty]

Or priming them to stop when she yells at them to stop when they're about to run into traffic, or stop before they put their hand on the hot stove. Kids are supposed to be obedient.

I stand by what I said.

 

[SCHMAE]

Does Michelle actually like having all those kids? It must be fun getting pregnant and all the "wow, 14, 15, 16, 17 kids, how do you cope, you must be a supermom..." stuff she's been hearing. But then once the babies are weaned she picks somebody else to be their buddy and the blanket thingy sounds like something you'd do when you dislike watching your kids being kids.

In one video the kids were having a dispute over a ball and she told the youngest, "the world doesn't revolve around Josie" using her soft voice but saying that to a toddler sounded kind of snarky and mean somehow, irritated. The kids were just being kids and wanted to play with a ball.

The world kind of does revolve around a toddler in their mind and in most of their parents' too. When they are fussy, you stop what your'e doing and tend to them. When they are hungry, you make a priority to feed the baby to get them to bed if it's naptime, etc. I'm sad for these kids for lots of reasons.

 

[RJA00]

when my son was younger and we went to doctors apps and such, I would sit there and see these kids sitting for pronlonged periods of time, ( you know, when they overbook apps and you sit and sit). My son would be on the floor playing with the toys that are there, after 45 mins he ready to go home. 60 mins he getting louder but honeslty i cant blame him. those other kids would still be sitting there in there seats. I would think how have they trained those kids to just sit there. heck, after 60 mins i'm ready to say is it time to go home yet. I could never make my son sit for 30 mins at a time. he does time out, and he knows if he talks or gets up he going to do extra. but just making them sit when they are not in trouble is wrong to me. we go to church he goes to the children church where there allowed to move around while they learn.

My mom did not belive in birth control either. did not beilve in sex before marriage. 2/5 of her kids listened to her. 2 had babies out of wedlock. I moved in with my husband before marriage, but mom didn't treat them any different, because they did not do what she did. My parents have been married 62 years, mom I guess she did use a form of birth control. she knew when she could get pregnant and we she could not. so, i guess that is a form of birth control? she knew the dates she got pregnant with all 5 of us. she was going to try one more time for a boy, but she was 38 when i was born and dad said no more. I guess the moral to this story, we were not brought up to live just like her, she expressed her beliefs to us but we were not forced to do it her way. my mom said the reason she spaced them out 4 years she knew she wanted a couple kids in her 30's to keep her young (oh wise tell is my dad and uncle had the mumps and that is why they didn't have any boys)

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Say...you know who ELSE is a Gothard fan?

The Cincinnati Beacon described Huckabee as a "long-time admirer" of Gothard. The former Arkansas governor wrote a letter used by Gothard to promote a program aimed at infiltrating city governments with core principles of the ministry stripped of overt religious references.

"As a person who has actually been through the Basic Seminar, I am confident that these are some of the best programs available for instilling character into the lives of people," Huckabee wrote in a letter promoting Gothard's prison ministry. Arkansas prisons had been using Gothard seminars and materials since 1996.

http://www.ethicsdaily.com/huckabee-linked-to-controversial-bible-teacher-bill-gothard-cms-12076

 

[oh_gal]

Say...you know who ELSE is a Gothard fan?



http://www.ethicsdaily.com/huckabee-linked-to-controversial-bible-teacher-bill-gothard-cms-12076

uke: uke: uke:

That's not vomit...it's Mike Huckabee's political aspirations going down the toilet.....

 

[wfgodot]

Gawker:

The Creepy Fundamentalist Homeschool Cult That Trained the Duggars

 

[oh_gal]

The Duggars (as well as the Bates and Anna's BIL, David Waller - her sister's husband) are scheduled to be speakers right now at the ATI conference in Tennessee. The Duggars are not live, however, but appearing via (or through?) a video. Not sure if it was always that way, or just since last Thursday.

http://familyconferences.org/events/nashville/

ETA: Actually, before this all went down, the Duggars were supposed to be there "live". This is an archived screen shot:
https://web.archive.org/web/20150318220206/http://familyconferences.org/events/nashville/

 

[gitana1]

To start this question, I will admit that I have never watched an episode of the Duggars. I have been following the media frenzy, and it has stirred a curiosity in me. Several years ago, there were some "incidents" involving neighborhood boys. The incidents were first discovered by one mom, who approached the parents of the other boys to discuss the "situation". It was deemed by the parents of the other boys to just be "curiosity" (what we may have called "playing doctor"). But, it was interesting that one of the things that happened with these boys is the oldest child was comparing sizes of all of the boys in the neighborhood. It involved boys of varying ages, with the oldest boy being at least 6 years older that the victim. Unfortunately, the curiosity turned into something a little more one day. The oldest boy offered his younger brother a candy bribe to perform oral $3x on the neighborhood child. Other incidents also apparently occurred involving stimulation of one kind or another.

Now, these neighbors went to the authorities once the "curiosity" escalated. All of the boys involved were interviewed. The stories all came out as what had happened, and it matched the "victim's" stories. And, do you know what happened to the juvenile boys that started this? Nothing. A file was made, and it was said that if anything else was reported, they would be put in to counseling. However, they were only offered counseling, and it was not forced. A file was created, but it was not considered a criminal matter.

My question is - do we know for certain that even if the events were reported back when it actually happened, would he have a criminal record? Would it have actually been treated differently than my neighbor's complaint? I absolutely think that what Josh did was wrong! I absolutely think that at 14 years old, he should not have had any inclination to do such a thing to his sisters. But, would the "system" have actually done anything more than advise his parents to get him in to counseling? I am not being snarky, but I am seriously curious about this situation. I only have the one neighbor's experience to go off of, and I was SHOCKED that the "system" did so little.

I also want to add that the house with the boys that started this was a very full household of children. I cannot imagine how the children even knew what oral *** was, but I did wonder about how private the parents kept their intimacy from their children.

Whoa. That's crazy what happened in your neighborhood. I think that when it gets to the point that a minor is simulating a very specific adult sex act, it's clear they have likely been exposed at some point. The fact that this child was bribing others to engage in the act is a huge red flag as well. I suspect that kid was abused himself.

As to your question, it is a good one. I hadn't really thought about it. The decision to prosecute a case is made by the state on an individual basis, so it is definitely possible that he may have been diverted to treatment instead of the criminal justice system.

Or priming them to stop when she yells at them to stop when they're about to run into traffic, or stop before they put their hand on the hot stove. Kids are supposed to be obedient.

Yes, kids are supposed to be obedient, but not blindly. Teaching blind obedience robs children of their critical thinking skills and can be dangerous. It specifically can lead to children "obeying" dangerous adults and teens and can even be fatal. The Duggar parenting model crushes independent thought and creates the perfect victim:

Children most susceptible to sexual abuse have obedient, compliant and respectful personalities.
https://www.aap.org/en-us/about-the...-Child-Sexual-Abuse.aspx#sthash.B957RYqV.dpuf


Preventing Sexual Abuse

If a child taught what's "okay" and what's "not okay" and they are self-confident, they are less apt to fall victim to the wiles of a sexual predator and more likely to report an incident should one occur. Several steps can be taken to protect your child from sexual abuse. Educate your children about their bodies, and what constitutes sexual abuse.

* Telling children that "if someone tries to touch your body and do things that make you feel funny, say NO to that person and tell me right away"
* Teaching children that respect does not mean blind obedience to adults and to authority, for example, don't tell children to, "Always do everything the teacher or baby-sitter tells you to do"
* Encouraging professional prevention programs in your local school system
http://www.loveourchildrenusa.org/sexualabuse.php


Blind obedience which flattens the decision making ability of individuals by demanding an authoritarian submission to the stringent rules, legalism, and pressures of a group or leader create the conditions that are the same as those who produced the Nazi Holocaust. Rather than fostering the growing discernment of the individual and by teaching moral codes such as Christian principle to inform that discernment, cultures of blind obedience punish and crush liberty and independent choice which God even offered individuals under the Old Covenant (Joshua 24:15). On a personal level, Bradshaw who speaks from experience notes that if we do not do our own personal moral work as we grow into adulthood, we run the risk of falling into rigid black-and -white thinking, an immature understanding that polarizes the perception of right and wrong. Vyckie Garrison notes aspects of this through the patterns of extremes followed in the Quiverfull Movement, and in terms of development, psychological splitting describes this primitive way of perceiving the world.

The Quiverfull/Patriarchy Movement (QF/P) offers all sorts of formulas which drive its culture of obedience and requires followers to develop an external locus of control by thriving on comparison and merging one's identity with the group. (Please read more about the Locus of Control at Overcoming Botkin Syndrome.) The Holy Spirit guides a Believer in liberty (Romans 8:1-7, Hebrews 10:16-18), and with ethics informed by the Word, and the Chrsitian does the daily, hard work of discernment when faced with life's dilemmas. In contrast, the culture of obedience creates some idealistic promise that offers some benefit to people for selling out to the “greater good,” promising to alleviate followers of the stress of decision-making with ready-made, foolproof formulas for success. Just like Adolf Hitler offered a convenient solution to the “Jewish problem” and the struggles of a shamed German people following WWI, child training experts like Pearl, Ezzo (Babywise), and even Bill Gothard promise fool-proof formulas that solve the problems and pitfalls of parenting. Bradshaw states that “blind obedience requires no real intelligence” (pg 228). http://undermuchgrace.blogspot.com/2011/04/why-good-people-make-dangerous-choices_8699.html