AR - Josh Duggar Admits Molesting Girls As A Teenager - #3

[Montjoy]

Are they certified? Has anyone ever heard of them?


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I can't see how they could be certified. Nobody in their staff list has any sort of relevant credentials.

 

[Bravo]

I can't see how they could be certified. Nobody in their staff list has any sort of relevant credentials.

Great!

 

[sorrell skye]

She was raised in a cult, indoctrinated to believe her destiny is nothing more than being wife and mother, given no real educational opportunities beyond the basics, engaged on her 18th birthday to a man she'd never been alone with and wouldn't be alone with until after their wedding, constantly impregnated, instructed to be subservient to her husband, taught that she must submit to her husband whenever he wants and that his sexual excesses are due to her failings, compelled to forgive, and if she leaves him she will no doubt be shunned by almost everyone she's ever known and loved. Why doesn't she leave? Oh, right. She must be a gold digger.

BBM

This is, IMO, the same mindset that blames the woman for the male's actions.

This is also, IMO, the same ethos that blames female rape victims, as well as the same ethos that blames women for staying in domestic violence situations when uninformed folks ask "Why doesn't she just leave?".

"Why doesn't she leave?"

Without a support system, without a source of steady income sufficient to support a family, faced with the threat of being an outcast from the only community one has ever known, faced with the possibility of losing custody of one's children?

Yeah -why doesn't she just leave?

 

[Paulas88]

At this point I am not sure exactly what Josh is??? Many of us have been waiting for shoe/s to drop and they have. IMO he is not getting the help he needs and I shudder to think of the future. The future for Anna and their Children. I cant even imagine a life like that. Will she continue having children with him? Dear gawd it just keeps getting worse. There are other Duggar children yet to even enter their teens. What will their future be? One out of 19 clearly has issues. Will there be others? Points to ponder.

Maybe she'll get lessons from a porn star, to keep JD satisfied.

 

[Cardinal47]

Many women stay in abusive marriages due to financial constraints - which is a very practical concern when trying to support a family on one's own (especially when a woman has no higher education and no job skills).

It ain't easy, and anyone who says it is, is either a fool or a liar or both.

Accusing Anna of staying by her husband's side and refusing to leave because she's used to the "good life" is not only accusing her of staying because she's an alleged money-grubber & social climber, but it is also ignoring the psycho-spiritual influence of her upbringing.

The Duggar money train has derailed - thanks to her husband's actions. I don't think anything or anyone can salvage a new TLC reality show that will feature any of the Duggar clan anytime soon or if ever, so the assertion that Anna is only staying for the money is not based on reality, IMO.

As far as I'm concerned, Anna is a female victim in an extremely abusive patriarchal cult. If anything, Anna is choosing to stay (IMO) because she's been indoctrinated (throughout her life) to believe without question that she is worthless without a husband, that she has no choice, that she has no voice, and that she has no power whatsoever.

I pray that she awakens to realize that she has been lied to her entire life - that she has been held hostage to vicious, agenda-driven hypocrisy. I pray that she awakens to realize her own worth, her own choices, her own power. I pray that she finds her own voice.

If there was ever a circumstance that requires the citing of this verse, it's now: Jesus wept.

Anna has been indoctrinated to this lifestyle but many others with the same upbringing don't have the Dugger millions backing them up.

Anna came from very humble beginnings and elevated herself to a life of wealth. She has very nice homes, trips, vacations and lives the lifestyle of a wealthy woman. We have no idea of the lifestyle Anna has been living off camera. Who helps her and what she does with her time.

No they might not make more money in TLC but the millions they have tucked away will make for a very comfortable lifestyle. I also believe Jim Bob will rise again. That's what he does. Somehow, somewhere he will make more money and lots of it.

I believe Anna knows what side her bread is buttered on.

I know all about abused women staying in conditions due to no money, training or family support.

I don't believe that is the case here. Anna has every reason to leave but she stays.

 

[seattlechiquita]

Why do they need a seminar? Shouldn't it just be something like wait until you're married to have sex and then have sex only with your spouse? I can tell people that for free.

You're missing a golden business opportunity!


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[Bravo]

I think most of us get why Anna doesn't leave. We just wish she would.

 

[Ladylub]

So this time around is he going to build a skyscraper to fix his all his twisted unchristian like ways?

 

[blue22]

I am aware that child molesters often/usually have adult sexual partners and some pedophiles as well (but I don't think they are as successful and I've read they may over-estimate their adult experiences in order to seem normal). However, Josh fits the profile of a child molester and not a pedophile, IMO, for several reasons that, when taken together, make me think he is likely not a pedophile:

1. To be diagnosed as a pedophile, one must be at least 16 at the time of the offense. Josh was 14 and 15.

2. To be a pedophile, one must be at least 5 years older than his or her under 13 year old victims. In Josh's case, he was 5 years older than some but not all of his victims at the time of the assaults. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...wJ-gDA&usg=AFQjCNHFRbxkDfFrBUlJ15_vGktnM-xlIg

3. Pedophiles tend to abuse non-family members more often than they abuse family. The victim's we know about in Josh's case are predominately family.

4. Pedophiles tend to work or be involved in organizations or jobs that involve children. That's not Josh.

5. Pedophiles tend to not be comfortable with adult relationships. In josh's case, there is evidence he is excited by sex with adults, he has adult friends and seems comfortable with his poor wife. (Even though he cheats on her).

6. Child molesters are less likely to be rearrested for child molestation, and are less likely to re-offend when their crimes were incestuous ones, while pedophiles have a very high recidivism rate. Josh has not been rearrested or accused as we know since back then.

7. Child molesters have fewer victims than pedophiles, who can have victims numbering the hundreds. In this case, Josh had 5 victims which is a lot, but all but one were in his family.

8. Child molesters tend to have appropriate relationships with peers and may be married, as opposed to pedophiles whose relationships with peers aren't very good and who aren't married as much. Josh appears to have normal peer relationships with males his age and he is married. And clearly is very into women.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...sg=AFQjCNGrxe-2FMR1CUM940xHCu2mI6ke_A&cad=rja

I personally believe he absolutely kept molesting his sisters past 15. I also personally believe that he had/has more victims than the 5. (I think this will end up coming out, IMO.) It would be very intimidating for a victim to come forward, in this cult. And not only that, most victims will blame themselves exclusively and not consider themselves a victim. They are taught it's their fault. In the normal world a victim can be heard. In their world, girls tempt boys. Josh was never going to work with children. In his religion (cult) men don't really do that. It's a woman's role to work with children. And opposite genders are kept pretty segregated so no one is tempted. And you know what...I have not really read anything about how Josh functioned with peers. No real friends have come to bat for him. Only people affiliated with the family, whose best interest is to stick up for them. I haven't heard any stories of how he did on a personal, private, social level. Only how he was publicly, which we know is an act...so that's only proof that he can seem a certain way. Josh is not "clearly very into women." He is clearly into deviant behavior. Seeking out sex with woman, does not mean that he wants to exclusively be with woman. Josh is married, of course. That's what is expected of him. His marriage is not proof of anything...obviously.

So, yeah. I actually think Josh is a pedophile. I think that the circumstances of his life can create a picture that paints a kid who just molested at 15. But if you keep peeling the layers, he could really fit the profile. Totally just my opinion.

 

[sorrell skye]

Anna has been indoctrinated to this lifestyle but many others with the same upbringing don't have the Dugger millions backing them up.

Anna came from very humble beginnings and elevated herself to a life of wealth. She has very nice homes, trips, vacations and lives the lifestyle of a wealthy woman. We have no idea of the lifestyle Anna has been living off camera. Who helps her and what she does with her time.

No they might not make more money in TLC but the millions they have tucked away will make for a very comfortable lifestyle. I also believe Jim Bob will rise again. That's what he does. Somehow, somewhere he will make more money and lots of it.

I believe Anna knows what side her bread is buttered on.

I know all about abused women staying in conditions due to no money, training or family support.

I don't believe that is the case here. Anna has every reason to leave but she stays.

Without a doubt, Anna has every reason to leave, but I refuse to bash her for staying.

Unless & until she is quoted in the media as saying that she's only standing by her man for the money, I'll give her the benefit of the doubt regarding her reasons for staying. At this point, I've only read media reports which quote her as staying with her husband because she's "fully and permanently committed to her marriage".

I refuse to derogate a woman for being fully committed to her marriage or for honoring her marriage vows, despite the circumstances. Goodness knows she's been subjected to enough derogation during her lifetime.

 

[Spangle]

I'm Christian and what bothers me is when people lump all Christians together in their criticism of the Duggars. Their Christianity doesn't look like mine. (Just this weekend we had a gay wedding at our church - and it was one of the most moving celebrations of love and family that I've ever witnessed at a wedding.)

I also think there is a misunderstanding about the concept of forgiveness. I do not want to get into a debate about what forgiveness means, but it does bother me when people scoff at it or don't understand it. I just scroll past those posts.

Mainly, I don't like blanket statements about "Christians" because we are NOT all like the Duggars! Not at all!

True. But we also have to understand, when people talk about this being a 'Christian" Nation, exactly what branch/type/etc Christianity are we talking about? Because this group and others like it IS the big push towards total Christian control. I am a Christian, but I figured out a while back, that just because something claims to be Christian, doesn't mean it's my view of what is Christian. Since then, I am ok with talking about such as the Duggars, without it feeling like it is an attack at me or my faith. It isn't.

But in a way, I believe we have been made to feel we must protect ALL groups of Christians, no matter what they do, because they proclaim to be Christians. When in reality, people get it. They realize not all Christians believe the exact same things, or act the same ways. It it just takes to long to make a statement such as "Not talking about all Christians, just these".

 

[Bravo]

Agree. I dont think women or children truly are safe around him. I think there is much more we dont know. At this point I wish his sorry azz could spend some time in jail. Not that I think it would deter him but I would love for him to have a dose of reality. A place where praying and Mommy and Daddy are not the answer.

 

[sorrell skye]

True. But we also have to understand, when people talk about this being a 'Christian" Nation, exactly what branch/type/etc Christianity are we talking about? Because this group and others like it IS the big push towards total Christian control. I am a Christian, but I figured out a while back, that just because something claims to be Christian, doesn't mean it's my view of what is Christian. Since then, I am ok with talking about such as the Duggars, without it feeling like it is an attack at me or my faith. It isn't.

But in a way, I believe we have been made to feel we must protect ALL groups of Christians, no matter what they do, because they proclaim to be Christians. When in reality, people get it. They realize not all Christians believe the exact same things, or act the same ways. It it just takes to long to make a statement such as "Not talking about all Christians, just these".

Which is exactly why there should never be what the Dominionists refer to as a "Christian" nation, nor should any other religion be declared the "official" religion of the United States. Separation of Church and State is a Good thing - it helps to protect spiritual freedom for ALL people.

 

[Montjoy]

I'm not religious, but the 'Quiverfull movement' isn't Christianity -- it exploits Christianity. It abuses the bible to find arguments for subjugating women and bolstering male authority. As I've said before, men like Jim Bob could probably find a way to justify male authority and misogyny from reading the list of ingredients on a bag of chips.

In a way, it's the same sort of situation when radical Christians use the bible to justify bombing women's health centers or when radical Muslims use the Koran to justify a Jihad.

 

[gitana1]

Anna has been indoctrinated to this lifestyle but many others with the same upbringing don't have the Dugger millions backing them up.

Anna came from very humble beginnings and elevated herself to a life of wealth. She has very nice homes, trips, vacations and lives the lifestyle of a wealthy woman. We have no idea of the lifestyle Anna has been living off camera. Who helps her and what she does with her time.

No they might not make more money in TLC but the millions they have tucked away will make for a very comfortable lifestyle. I also believe Jim Bob will rise again. That's what he does. Somehow, somewhere he will make more money and lots of it.

I believe Anna knows what side her bread is buttered on.

I know all about abused women staying in conditions due to no money, training or family support.

I don't believe that is the case here. Anna has every reason to leave but she stays.

Are you aware that TLC has pulled the plug on 19 kids and counting? And will not be airing reruns or selling videos, so no residuals?

And Josh's lucrative position for the FRC has disappeared as well.

The "gravy train" has come to a complete stop.

Moreover, the family has totally lost its status in their community. There is a strong Calvinist strain among many IFB's and for them, a fall like this is a sign of God's disfavor. They are no longer IFB royalty. So not only is Anna not getting any money from this, she has lost social status. (But not as much as she would if she left Josh though).

I find the accusation that indoctrinated and powerless Anna Duggar is sticking around due to the largess she can glean from this family, to be repellent at best.

I personally believe he absolutely kept molesting his sisters past 15. I also personally believe that he had/has more victims than the 5. (I think this will end up coming out, IMO.) It would be very intimidating for a victim to come forward, in this cult. And not only that, most victims will blame themselves exclusively and not consider themselves a victim. They are taught it's their fault. In the normal world a victim can be heard. In their world, girls tempt boys. Josh was never going to work with children. In his religion (cult) men don't really do that. It's a woman's role to work with children. And opposite genders are kept pretty segregated so no one is tempted. And you know what...I have not really read anything about how Josh functioned with peers. No real friends have come to bat for him. Only people affiliated with the family, whose best interest is to stick up for them. I haven't heard any stories of how he did on a personal, private, social level. Only how he was publicly, which we know is an act...so that's only proof that he can seem a certain way. Josh is not "clearly very into women." He is clearly into deviant behavior. Seeking out sex with woman, does not mean that he wants to exclusively be with woman. Josh is married, of course. That's what is expected of him. His marriage is not proof of anything...obviously.

So, yeah. I actually think Josh is a pedophile. I think that the circumstances of his life can create a picture that paints a kid who just molested at 15. But if you keep peeling the layers, he could really fit the profile. Totally just my opinion.

ETA: Sorry, I lost my response to you.

Yes, you're right. There is a lot that is likely hidden and he could've been continuing on for some time. Either way, I do believe he is a predator. Scary.

 

[redheart]

Without a doubt, Anna has every reason to leave, but I refuse to bash her for staying.

Unless & until she is quoted in the media as saying that she's only standing by her man for the money, I'll give her the benefit of the doubt regarding her reasons for staying. At this point, I've only read media reports which quote her as staying with her husband because she's "fully and permanently committed to her marriage".

I refuse to derogate a woman for being fully committed to her marriage or for honoring her marriage vows, despite the circumstances. Goodness knows she's been subjected to enough derogation during her lifetime.

But what about her four children? If they grow up to have the same twisted mindset as the rest of the Duggar clan how is Anna any better than Michelle?
I don't feel comfortable bashing Anna, but I don't feel comfortable absolving her as 100% victim in this either.

I grew up in a fundie family and had some horrible experiences. I wish my mother had been strong enough to protect us. She certainly is intelligent enough. I don't fully understand to this day why she let my dad do the things he did - to us, and to her.

 

[gitana1]

But what about her four children? If they grow up to have the same twisted mindset as the rest of the Duggar clan how is Anna any better than Michelle?
I don't feel comfortable bashing Anna, but I don't feel comfortable absolving her as 100% victim in this either.

I grew up in a fundie family and had some horrible experiences. I wish my mother had been strong enough to protect us. She certainly is intelligent enough. I don't fully understand to this day why she let my dad do the things he did - to us, and to her.

Only the very strong are able to escape the hold of such cultures.

 

[sorrell skye]

How can Josh blame porn when he started on his sisters?

That, my friend is the best question ever!

Indeed, how CAN Josh blame porn when his deviant actions were first perpetrated against his sisters and another minor girl?

The answer: he can't - not legitimately.

But that's the propaganda the Prince and his family are hoping that not only their community will swallow, but TLC and the public, as well.

I don't eat excrement. Never have, never will.

 

[sorrell skye]

But what about her four children? If they grow up to have the same twisted mindset as the rest of the Duggar clan how is Anna any better than Michelle?
I don't feel comfortable bashing Anna, but I don't feel comfortable absolving her as 100% victim in this either.

I grew up in a fundie family and had some horrible experiences. I wish my mother had been strong enough to protect us. She certainly is intelligent enough. I don't fully understand to this day why she let my dad do the things he did - to us, and to her.

Michelle Duggar (as an adult) chose this cult.

Anna was born into it - taught her entire life (if her parents followed Gothard's teachings and/or the teachings of the ATI - which are one and the same) that she is powerless, that she has no choices in life, that her only life path is to marry, bear children, and to submit to her pastor (god's earthly authority), to her father (also god's earthly authority), and then to her husband (another of god's earthly authorities) in all things.

I'm terrified for Anna and for her four children - given the culture they have been born into and are being raised in.

 

[redheart]

Michelle Duggar (as an adult) chose this cult.

Anna was born into it - taught her entire life (if her parents followed Gothard's teachings and/or the teachings of the ATI - which are one and the same) that she is powerless, that she has no choices in life, that her only life path is to marry, bear children, and to submit to her pastor (god's earthly authority), to her father (also god's earthly authority), and then to her husband (another of god's earthly authorities) in all things.

I'm terrified for Anna and for her four children - given the culture they have been born into and are being raised in.

Yes, I know what they teach. I grew up with the same teachings.

As I said, I'm not comfortable with blaming Anna, nor do I believe she is blame-free (for staying with Josh). Someone has to break the cycle, for the sake of those four children.