Armchair psych profile and personal background

[dotr]

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/2012/07/10/19971766.html
A pair of Playboy bunnies and an animal-rights group asked star Ron Jeremy to take part in a plot to trap small-time actor Luka Rocco Magnotta for his alleged kitten-killing videos -- a year before he made headlines for the alleged body-parts slaying of Jun Lin, according to a report.

Jeremy was to lure Magnotta to Los Angeles with a fake job offer of a role in a movie, the Canadian Press reported Tuesday"

 

[Mozzmo]

In thinking about the Luka Magnotta case, it's interesting to watch this interview of Ted Bundy the day before he was put to death. From what I've read about Ted's family I wouldn't say that his childhood was idyllic. Maybe he sought to protect his family so that they wouldn't suffer persecution because of himself. Either way, I think there's a lot of truth in what he's saying. Luka himself is into violent , as we saw in that one tumblr page and possibly other places.

FULL VERSION: Ted Bundy, Interview by Dr. James Dobson in 1989 Before Execution - YouTube

I agree, that he appears sincere and there are valid points to what he sees as contributers to his spiral into crime. I still believe that having more info on the family would be of interest. For example, if someone is raised in a fundamentalist christian environment, it would not be unusual for women to be treated as lesser then....as submissive. There can often be an element of mysogeny in such situations. This was certainly a common cultural piece that women have made cultural gains in. Still if Bundy was exposed to overt/covert messages of mysogeny it certainly could have been a foundational contributor along with the addictions (/alcohol).

 

[Scientific]

I really get the feeling that Bundy was trying to save his family from social persecution, and so left out discussion of anything that would even remotely place a blame upon them. This would include discussion of the cultural environment they had control over (religion being one). And after the reading I've done on him, I do think his family had a lot to do with how he turned out though not in any obvious way. But ultimately we all make our own choices so the blame really lies with Bundy. Either way, the violent media played a significant role in helping to incite fantasies.

I also find it interesting that he addresses the idea of killers being sociopaths, psychopaths, monsters. We are told so often that they lack empathy and only experience anger. This simply does not do justice to the complexity of a human being, murderer or not. Stereotypes aren't helpful in trying to catch, prosecute, understand, and prevent the creation of such criminals.

I agree, that he appears sincere and there are valid points to what he sees as contributers to his spiral into crime. I still believe that having more info on the family would be of interest. For example, if someone is raised in a fundamentalist christian environment, it would not be unusual for women to be treated as lesser then....as submissive. There can often be an element of mysogeny in such situations. This was certainly a common cultural piece that women have made cultural gains in. Still if Bundy was exposed to overt/covert messages of mysogeny it certainly could have been a foundational contributor along with the addictions (/alcohol).

 

[Mozzmo]

I really get the feeling that Bundy was trying to save his family from social persecution, and so left out discussion of anything that would even remotely place a blame upon them. This would include discussion of the cultural environment they had control over (religion being one). And after the reading I've done on him, I do think his family had a lot to do with how he turned out though not in any obvious way. But ultimately we all make our own choices so the blame really lies with Bundy. Either way, the violent media played a significant role in helping to incite fantasies.

I also find it interesting that he addresses the idea of killers being sociopaths, psychopaths, monsters. We are told so often that they lack empathy and only experience anger. This simply does not do justice to the complexity of a human being, murderer or not. Stereotypes aren't helpful in trying to catch, prosecute, understand, and prevent the creation of such criminals.

I've not read much on Bundy so don't know of his history. If we were to hypothesize the best case scenario.... that he truly believes his family/environment was not contributory, that doesn't mean it wasn't. My example about mysogeny was that it has been ribboned throughout cultures at times and in ways that make it "normative". So he might overlook something defined as normative to him, when it fact it was contributory.

Regarding Bundy's emotional displays in the video. I'm conflicted. They seem sincere, but then again the pessimistic side of me wonders if he was pleading his "mea maxima culpa" as he faced death and perhaps wanted the pearly gates opened for him. I want to believe him though....

 

[Sunday]

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/2012/07/10/19971766.html
A pair of Playboy bunnies and an animal-rights group asked star Ron Jeremy to take part in a plot to trap small-time actor Luka Rocco Magnotta for his alleged kitten-killing videos -- a year before he made headlines for the alleged body-parts slaying of Jun Lin, according to a report.

Jeremy was to lure Magnotta to Los Angeles with a fake job offer of a role in a movie, the Canadian Press reported Tuesday"

A little stranger each and every day.

 

[claudicici]

I agree. These groupies are a freak show unto themselves. Somehow the wiring in their brains is crossed. Whereas 99% of the population is disgusted and repulsed at LM and his crime, all these zombies can focus on are their wetdreams of getting in the sack with a gay man who performs like a dead fish and just assume fillet them.

I have to admit that if this would have happened 25 years ago when I was a teenager I could have seen myself as one of them.I had a huge "crush" on David Berkowitz ,the son of Sam and my daydreams would be that I was the only one that understood him and vice versa.I think most of the Luka groupies are very young as well and I'm sure a lot of them probably went through some sort of trauma that makes them think only he would understand .The thought that this guy took someone's life ,someone who is completely innocent of whatever trauma he was going through is not something they connect I'm sure.....It takes growing up to realize the true value of life IMO because when you're in a stage were every couple of days you wished your own life was over it's hard to care about someone elses....

 

[claudicici]

A little stranger each and every day.

I wished Ron wouldn't have gotten nervous about it.It probably would have worked and Lin Jun would be alive and LM would be in jail without a fan following.I wonder h0w much time he would have gotten for the kitten killings alone though?

 

[claudicici]

Thank goodness she was able to be helped. B.T now seems to be doing well according to the internet.[/QUOT
http://www.childrenintherapy.org/proponents/thomasb.html

I'm so glad she's doing well.I wished there were trained therapists in every school that could detect these mental issues early I bet a whole lot of crime could be prevented that way.

 

[Donyale]

I agree. These groupies are a freak show unto themselves. Somehow the wiring in their brains is crossed. Whereas 99% of the population is disgusted and repulsed at LM and his crime, all these zombies can focus on are their wetdreams of getting in the sack with a gay man who performs like a dead fish and just assume fillet them.

This makes me so sad. I'm actually worried about that girl from Saskatoon, Destiney St-Denis, she got in touch to Luka after she watched one of his videos killing the cats. I think she has some serious mental illness, why would any sane person want to become friends of someone who torture and kill animals? she probably kills animals in her spare time as well. I wouldn't be surprised. Maybe she has hybristophilia and gets excited about the horrors LM did to Jun Lin, this chick should be watched closely by her family before she kills someone, she has no empathy whatsoever to the victim. In the other article she said she didn't care about 'the other dude' being butchered and she loved the video. Now read this:

"St-Denis made contact with Magnotta before the murder of Jun Lin. She had reached out to him through Facebook after watching the online videos of Magnotta allegedly killing young kittens. The pair became virtual friends and chatted on Skype twice a week during the two months preceding Lin’s death, she said.

"He's a very nice person,” she said. “We talked a lot about fashion design."

St-Denis said she has watched the video of Jun Lin's murder more than 20 times. Asked why, she said jokingly that she likes the music.

"I've seen worse in horror films. I really like horror films," she added.

St.-Denis said she plans to visit Magnotta in prison. "He needs support,” she said, citing the accused man’s reported history of physical and sexual abuse. "It doesn't justify anything, but it played an important role," she said of the abuse.

“He probably feels very lonely."


http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/07/09/luka-rocco-magnotta-fans-facebook-blog_n_1658533.html

 

[Donyale]

I think we need an armchair psych thread just for these people: http://betabeat.com/2012/07/inside-the-bizarre-world-of-luka-magnotta-fan-sites/

I'm worried about what these people do behind the scenes (killing animals and people probably), they are truly disgusting. It would be cool if Luka could actually get in touch with them and finally kill them all instead of Jun Lin and all the cats he killed. The world would be a better place. I bet these fans would scream in despair and change their minds about how wonderful and beautiful Luka is the moment he did something really hurtful to them. One thing is to build an online shrine and worship from a distance while he is safe behind bars and won't hurt them but it is something totally different to face the killer and interact with a sociopath/psychopath/narcissist in real life.
These people are adoring him like a god because they are very cozy at home, behind a monitor and able to log-off from internet anytime they wish, they don't need to deal with him like his victims were obliged.

Destiney St-Denis, Breann Pearl Lang, foreverandever0001 the swedish girl, Lexa Mancini from lukamagnottaobsession blog, all those people should be monitored by the authorities and get some mental help before it is too late. In a perfect world I wish they were killed instead of Jun Lin because they represent everything that is wrong in this society. :banghead:*rant mode off*

 

[Donyale]

Barbie Swallows confirms Luka and Nader were in a serious relationship.
She said Nader was head over heels for Luka and also confirms he was not willing to come out of the closet for Luka.I do believe Luka's e-strip blogs are pretty candid and honest.(and yet it's true he got a lot of hateful responses back when he did not deserve it)
Luka started dating her after a threesome with Nader that Nader walked out of.I suspect Luka was with Barbie to make Nader jealous.

I agree about the e-strip texts, he sounded honest and I think readers in that blog overreacted and bullied him in the comments, that was way before the cat killings. Btw, the guys from Orato did not like his texts either and found him obnoxious.
http://metronews.ca/news/vancouver/245363/vancouver-editors-put-off-by-creepy-magnotta/

Also about Barbie Swallows, she gave a very intimate reply to one blog and explained what happened between her Luka and Nader. It seems Luka had some serious sexual problems, I wonder how the heck did he work as a prostitute and actor if he had so serious impotence problems? And I wonder about his real feelings about Barbie and Nader, i mean they sure meant something very important to him because after so many years they were the only people he wanted to attack and address on the rip-off reports in the day he was busy killing Jun Lin. Why exactly these two? I mean he could have written a rip-off about his parents, society, industry, clients, everything else, but then he chose Nader and Barbie who were out of his life for many years! I think it is so crazy.
here the link:
http://lukamagnotta.org/news/jelous-haters-on-myspace

 

[thedissent]

In thinking about the Luka Magnotta case, it's interesting to watch this interview of Ted Bundy the day before he was put to death. From what I've read about Ted's family I wouldn't say that his childhood was idyllic. Maybe he sought to protect his family so that they wouldn't suffer persecution because of himself. Either way, I think there's a lot of truth in what he's saying. Luka himself is into violent , as we saw in that one tumblr page and possibly other places.

FULL VERSION: Ted Bundy, Interview by Dr. James Dobson in 1989 Before Execution - YouTube

I'm not sure we can trust anything that Bundy has to say.

That interview was given on the eve of his execution.

When faced with previous execution dates, Bundy had come up with strategies to seek a stay. On two occasions, when his legal avenues for a stay would appear to be failing, he would begin confessing to various crimes but give little details, in the hopes that LE would seek a stay in order to obtain more details to recover the bodies of more of his victims. This, ruefully, became known as Bundy's "bones for time" scheme.

On this occasion, when this interview was given, Bundy's confessions were no longer moving LE, and his various legal avenues in the courts seeking a stay had run out. His only hope was to seek executive clemency from then Republican Governor of Florida, Bob Martinez.

Martinez was known for crusading against obscenity and -- he famously "investigated" the band 2 Live Crew for breaking obscenity laws at the behest of "anti-" crusader Jack Thompson.

Story: http://articles.latimes.com/1990-11-01/entertainment/ca-5142_1_live-crew/2

In my (and many critics view), with these anti- interviews Bundy was simply attempting to ingratiate himself to Republican / conservative politicians and elements, in particular the Governor, to seek clemency.

I am no fan of the death penalty. But, let's be clear, right up until his final hours, Bundy was very likely lying and manipulating to save his own skin. We should put zero credence in any of this.

 

[thedissent]

Agree to disagree on the nature versus nurture debate? When i read about LRM I started researching pretty heavily into psychopathy and there is plenty of evidence on both sides. And yes, I also agree that even if psychopathy is a manifestation of biology rather than environment whatsoever, his upbringing and positive versus negative reinforcement would have impacted how he adapted and utilized his impulses.

I didn't know we were disagreeing.

When I say someone is "born" a psychopath, I don't mean they are born a psychopathic killer. I mean, they are born with personality traits and deficits associated with psychopathy. But those traits do not necessarily mean they will become criminals or serial killers. They can become any number of things, but most often, they end up in professions associated with power and prestige (law or banking).

I think the evidence of a genetic basis for psychopathy is pretty much established. How that genetic basis "interacts" with environmental factors is still being researched. For example, almost without exception, children diagnosed with a certain kind of conduct disorder called "callous unemotional" conduct disorder, go on to become adult psychopaths. But not all psychopaths could be classified as callous unemotional CD as children, suggesting other factors.

Here's a quote from a very recent (May of this year) piece in the New York Times called "Can You Call a 9-Year-Old a Psychopath?", about this conduct disorder in children, and psychopathy:

Currently, there is no standard test for psychopathy in children, but a growing number of psychologists believe that psychopathy, like autism, is a distinct neurological condition — one that can be identified in children as young as 5. Crucial to this diagnosis are callous-unemotional traits, which most researchers now believe distinguish “fledgling psychopaths” from children with ordinary conduct disorder, who are also impulsive and hard to control and exhibit hostile or violent behavior. According to some studies, roughly one-third of children with severe behavioral problems — like the aggressive disobedience that Michael displays — also test above normal on callous-unemotional traits. (Narcissism and impulsivity, which are part of the adult diagnostic criteria, are difficult to apply to children, who are narcissistic and impulsive by nature.)

It's an excellent read, and very well balanced piece. I invite others to check it out:

Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/13/m...a-9-year-old-a-psychopath.html?pagewanted=all

Part of the problem, is how psychopathy shares a number of common traits with other disorders, like sociopaths, anti-personality disorder.

Beth Thomas is a great example. She was not psychopathic. Rather, she was a child who suffered from RAD -- reactive attachment disorder, common among children who are severely abused at an early age, and thus become unable to form any kind of relationship with other people; until receiving treatment, she exhibited typical traits of psychopaths: inability to empathize with others. Lack of a conscience, etc.

 

[thedissent]

I've not read much on Bundy so don't know of his history. If we were to hypothesize the best case scenario.... that he truly believes his family/environment was not contributory, that doesn't mean it wasn't. My example about mysogeny was that it has been ribboned throughout cultures at times and in ways that make it "normative". So he might overlook something defined as normative to him, when it fact it was contributory.

Regarding Bundy's emotional displays in the video. I'm conflicted. They seem sincere, but then again the pessimistic side of me wonders if he was pleading his "mea maxima culpa" as he faced death and perhaps wanted the pearly gates opened for him. I want to believe him though....

I don't think it was Bundy trying to "save" his family. Nor was he being sincere about his .

He was trying to "save" himself (see my post above).

 

[Sierra20]

Interesting article here, new today, touches on LM and his fans, nature vs nuture and other children with psychopathy. Very on topic for us at the minute!

http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/fu...ychopaths-and-the-women-and-men-who-love-them

 

[Scientific]

Agreed with everything you say here. Bundy studied psychology and he gave his own personhood a lot of thought. I think he was aware of certain shaping forces of childhood. Yet, as you say here, he may have missed some things.

In a rush...so that's all I'll say. Good post!

I've not read much on Bundy so don't know of his history. If we were to hypothesize the best case scenario.... that he truly believes his family/environment was not contributory, that doesn't mean it wasn't. My example about mysogeny was that it has been ribboned throughout cultures at times and in ways that make it "normative". So he might overlook something defined as normative to him, when it fact it was contributory.

Regarding Bundy's emotional displays in the video. I'm conflicted. They seem sincere, but then again the pessimistic side of me wonders if he was pleading his "mea maxima culpa" as he faced death and perhaps wanted the pearly gates opened for him. I want to believe him though....

 

[Jujercu]

http://www.mugshotsonline.com/listing/jamie-beth-thomas/mug-shot-30394052.jpg

It does seem that Beth finally got things to be somewhat normal in her life but looks like it wasn't easy for her based on this mugshot...but I can't find any other info on it..odd..wonder if it's legit.

 

[Sunday]

I agree about the e-strip texts, he sounded honest and I think readers in that blog overreacted and bullied him in the comments, that was way before the cat killings. Btw, the guys from Orato did not like his texts either and found him obnoxious.
http://metronews.ca/news/vancouver/245363/vancouver-editors-put-off-by-creepy-magnotta/

Also about Barbie Swallows, she gave a very intimate reply to one blog and explained what happened between her Luka and Nader. It seems Luka had some serious sexual problems, I wonder how the heck did he work as a prostitute and actor if he had so serious impotence problems? And I wonder about his real feelings about Barbie and Nader, i mean they sure meant something very important to him because after so many years they were the only people he wanted to attack and address on the rip-off reports in the day he was busy killing Jun Lin. Why exactly these two? I mean he could have written a rip-off about his parents, society, industry, clients, everything else, but then he chose Nader and Barbie who were out of his life for many years! I think it is so crazy.
here the link:
http://lukamagnotta.org/news/jelous-haters-on-myspace

I haven't read her comments, but if he was in fact impotent with her it could be because he couldn't obtain appropriate levels of arousal when he had genuine feelings for someone. This could be why he tried to avoid sex w/Nina, as well. Once he had genuine emotions towards someone he either had performance anxiety or couldn't get aroused at all. His sexuality was all mucked up and he probably needed a level of disgust, shame, and/or deviency to become aroused. That's just my guess.

This is pretty personal and I have never really shared it with anyone but here goes... When I was about 8 or 9 I found my older brother's magazines hidden in his room. He was 11 years older than me and had some interesting tastes, to say the least. This was my first exposure to sex, and it really F-ed me up for a while. I came from a very conservative family who never talked about sex, and the lead me to believe that sex was between people who didn't like each other very much. By the time my hormones began to change at about 11yo I was having rape fantasies rather than normal, healthy fantasies involving love, care, etc., all because of how that shaped my ideas. I cannot even imagine how molestation or other abuses skew a childs thoughts and views on sex. Somehow I managed to grow and evolve into an adult with normal sexual boundaries and desires, albeit I have never been a very sexual person.

In retrospect, I wonder what happened to that brother and why he seems to be the only one with more devient tastes. We haven't spoken to one another since I was 19, so I can't say I even know him very well.

 

[pippirose]

I wished Ron wouldn't have gotten nervous about it.It probably would have worked and Lin Jun would be alive and LM would be in jail without a fan following.I wonder h0w much time he would have gotten for the kitten killings alone though?

It wouldn't have worked, and probably would have back-fired badly, and made things even worse (adding to LM's lament of being stalked, framed and persecuted). Vigilantism is never the answer.

The kitten killings were most likely done in Canada, so legally, how could the police have arrested him in the U.S?
And even *if* he would have been arrested in Canada, in all likelihood he would have served a few paltry months in jail.

 

[thedissent]

It wouldn't have worked, and probably would have back-fired badly, and made things even worse (adding to LM's lament of being stalked, framed and persecuted). Vigilantism is never the answer.

The kitten killings were most likely done in Canada, so legally, how could the police have arrested him in the U.S?
And even *if* he would have been arrested in Canada, in all likelihood he would have served a few paltry months in jail.

I agree that many things could have gone wrong, but I understand their desire to find a way to get LRM to face justice.

But legality is not one of the problems. Police in the U.S. could have arrested him for crimes in Canada (animal cruelty is illegal in Canada), the same way police in Germany arrested him for a crime committed in Canada (the murder of Jun Lin).

Presumably, U.S. authorities would have extradited him back to Canada to face charges, just as Germany did this time.