Armchair Psych Profile and Treatment

[newsleuther]

Since we our on the blame game train. What about the government?

Civil commitment is necessary form of preventative detention. But the entire US legal and constitutional system is organized to protect people from preventive detention.

Unless he made and confirmed a threat to commit a violent act, he would not be commited.

Call 911? Have him evaluated? The doctors can only take his word. And his word may have been "I'm fine." They wouldn't have access to his gun purchases, bomb planning, etc.

She was his doctor, she should know. Maybe she did. Maybe she insisted a judge strip away his constitutional right of freedom and the judge denied.

It's scary to think one phone call can get a person stripped away of his or her rights to freedom.

I think he is scary and a danger but, really, I hate to think where this may snowball when people are saying - just call the cops, they'll put him away against his will.

Agree with you 100%

Scary that people think the slightest thing should warrant a 72 hour lockup.

We have no idea what he even said to her at this point.

 

[February]

Agree with you 100%

Scary that people think the slightest thing should warrant a 72 hour lockup.

We have no idea what he even said to her at this point.

why would it be scary calling LE or 72 hours lockup? Not everyone can actually call a 72 hold , and not everyone will put their license on their line to call this. They have a judgement to make and if we go back to early May and say she called LE to put him on 72 hour lockdown, LE come to his house to get him and discovered all his ammunitions , guns, liquid bombs .... guess what will happen? That Fenton will be called a HERO imo...

IMO court order is still needed to process that 72 hour lockdown.

 

[newsleuther]

why would it be scary calling LE or 72 hours lockup? Not everyone can actually call a 72 hold , and not everyone will put their license on their line to call this. They have a judgement to make and if we go back to early May and say she called LE to put him on 72 hour lockdown, LE come to his house to get him and discovered all his ammunitions , guns, liquid bombs .... guess what will happen? That Fenton will be called a HERO imo...

What happens when its your kid who dyes their hair and acts a little angsty while they're away at school, and is detained against their will for 72 hours?

My point is, we have absolutely no idea what he even said to her. Just acting off is not rationale for a 72 hr hold. We can look back on what happened and say it is, but at the time? Without knowing what was said, no one can say she should have called.

Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

 

[shadowraiths]

Colorado shooting: It’s hard to spot threats, experts say ( link )
By Jenna Johnson and Joel Achenbach, Washington Post
Thursday, August 2, 6:03 PM

The university has become a fortress of silence since the theater shooting, but some members of the community here have expressed dismay that one of their own allegedly planned mass murder without detection.

“The signs are there, people just have to look for them,” said Justin Beasley, 32, a fourth-generation Aurora resident as he sat at a park watching his two children play. “We live in a crazy world, and there are a lot of scary people out there who have access to such horrible weapons. It scares me, it scares my wife, it scares all of us.”

[...]

Experts on threat assessment say it’s an inherently tricky enterprise. They say the most dangerous people do not fit a simple profile. Some of the personality traits common among mass murderers are indistinguishable from the characteristics of harmless individuals who sit quietly in their room playing video games.

[...]

“The minute I heard [about the Aurora shooting] I said, oh, a lot of people are going to know about this guy. They probably saw warning signs or red flags earlier, and a lot of people didn’t recognize what they saw,” said Anne Glavin, chief of police at California State University at Northridge and the president of the International Association of Campus Law Enforcement Administrators.

“People don’t just snap. They don’t just go crazy. They don’t just ‘go postal.’ There’s no such thing,” she said.

[...]

Although psychiatrists have an ethical responsibility to offer confidential treatment, there are situations in which a doctor can, and legally must, breach the confidentiality and alert authorities to an imminent threat. Every state has its own laws and guidelines about this “duty to warn.”

Colorado’s law states that mental health professionals are protected from lawsuits if a patient turns violent “except where the patient has communicated to the mental health care provider a serious threat of imminent physical violence against a specific person or persons.”

Students with mental health issues have rights under the Americans with Disability Act. This was something that Anschutz leaders, including Fenton, discussed as they created the BETA team, according to meeting notes on the university Web site: “Concern was expressed about students with behavior problems falling back on underlying ADA issues as an ‘excuse.’ Legal decisions often support the student at the expense of the institution.”​

 

[February]

What happens when its your kid who dyes their hair and acts a little angsty while they're away at school, and is detained against their will for 72 hours?

My point is, we have absolutely no idea what he even said to her. Just acting off is not rationale for a 72 hr hold. We can look back on what happened and say it is, but at the time? Without knowing what was said, no one can say she should have called.

If my kid dyes her hair purple or green - they can come and get him and evaluate him for a month - if that is needed but i will get second opinion if they will prescribe him a mental pill...all people are different. IMO

if you look at my previous post, i also said that we dont know what she learned to say that JH is danger to others but the word is there - JH IS DANGER TO OTHERS . She said to her colleagues that JH is danger to others ... How can you interpret that?

 

[Roxye]

She works for the University but at the same time she has a Colorado medical license to follow Colorado medical etiquettes and laws IMO.

Her contract with the University and the privacy law with that University, would bind her hands.

Just like any cooperation, you sign a contract with, you as an employee are bound by the contract you sign. Just because it was a state run institution doesn't mean the contract she sign doesn't bind her.

IMO She did what she thought was right, by the bounds of her contract. Once withdraw procedures started, her hands were tied. JMO

 

[CARIIS]

Everyone , in the beginning of the first session signs this. (Calling law enforcement does not breach confidentiality).

Confidentiality, Harm, and Inquiry: Information from my evaluation and/or treatment is contained in a confidential medical record and I consent to disclosure for use by staff for the purpose of continuity of care. Information provided will be kept confidential with the following exceptions: 1) if it is deemed that I present a danger to myself/others 2) if concerns about possible abuse or neglect arise; or 3) if a court order is issued to obtain records.

 

[February]

The psychiatrist treating the accused Colorado movie theater gunman was so concerned about his behavior that she mentioned it to her colleagues, saying he could potentially be a danger to others,

http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/01/justice/colorado-theater-shooting-psychiatrist/

she mentioned it to her colleagues, saying he could potentially be a danger to others

If you think he isnt a danger to others after reading this then i dont know what to say. IMO

 

[February]

27-65-106. Court-ordered evaluation for persons with mental illness.

(1) Any person alleged to have a mental illness and, as a result of the mental illness, to be a danger to others or to himself or herself or to be gravely disabled may be given an evaluation of his or her condition under a court order pursuant to this section

http://www.criminal-lawyer-colorado...-and-colorado-involuntary-treatment-laws.html

 

[songline]

But the only PUBLIC thing we saw so far was him dying his hair. Dying your hair and and explicit rage, isn't enough to say this boy gave her any reason to believe he would actually do SOMETHING to express his rage. She thought he MIGHT be a threat, and she did what she COULD do because of her contract with the University. After JH started the withdraw process, what was she to do?

He had rage and he dyed his hair. My now 22 year old daughter did that at 17, but she was never a threat to anyone. She was just angry and young. Maybe this DR thought the same about JH,

If my daughter turned out to be the Mass Murder this man has become, would I be at fault for just thinking she is young and stupid? As she turned out to be?

It is not what we saw that matters, it is what she saw.
Nobody unravels to that degree in a few weeks.
The unraveling was ON and she would not have been so concerned with his behavior to have alerted a number of others. Talk is cheap actions it what makes a difference.
And the school buttoning up so fast and telling people not to talk so fast is a red flag.
I am not playing politics for the school NOP. I know too much and trust what I know.
Something stinks and I smell all the way here.

 

[newsleuther]

The psychiatrist treating the accused Colorado movie theater gunman was so concerned about his behavior that she mentioned it to her colleagues, saying he could potentially be a danger to others,

http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/01/justice/colorado-theater-shooting-psychiatrist/

she mentioned it to her colleagues, saying he could potentially be a danger to others

If you think he isnt a danger to others after reading this then i dont know what to say. IMO

It depends exactly what he said, and nothing has been confirmed.

If he did, indeed say "I am going to hurt someone" she should have called the cops. The fact that she did not makes me believe it was way more vague than that.

 

[February]

Her contract with the University and the privacy law with that University, would bind her hands.

The University has to follow Colorado Laws

 

[newsleuther]

If my kid dyes her hair purple or green - they can come and get him and evaluate him for a month - if that is needed but i will get second opinion if they will prescribe him a mental pill...all people are different. IMO

if you look at my previous post, i also said that we dont know what she learned to say that JH is danger to others but the word is there - JH IS DANGER TO OTHERS . She said to her colleagues that JH is danger to others ... How can you interpret that?

Are you seriously saying you'd be ok with your kid getting locked up for a mental evaluation for month simply for dying their hair a funny color?

If they were held against their will, you'd have no say on a 2nd opinion.

That is not a direct quote from Dr. Fenton. I need more information before judging what she did.

 

[songline]

27-65-106. Court-ordered evaluation for persons with mental illness.

(1) Any person alleged to have a mental illness and, as a result of the mental illness, to be a danger to others or to himself or herself or to be gravely disabled may be given an evaluation of his or her condition under a court order pursuant to this section

http://www.criminal-lawyer-colorado...-and-colorado-involuntary-treatment-laws.html

There was no court order to get my daughter into a hospital.
she did attempt suicide... NO COURT ORDER needed for ALL things.
There are exceptions...

 

[songline]

Are you seriously saying you'd be ok with your kid getting locked up for a mental evaluation for month simply for dying their hair a funny color?

If they were held against their will, you'd have no say on a 2nd opinion.

That is not a direct quote from Dr. Fenton. I need more information before judging what she did.

His Dr. did not alert people because his hair was a funny color.

He did not fail the oral exam because he is smart... he was already not focused by that exam time.

 

[February]

It depends exactly what he said, and nothing has been confirmed.

If he did, indeed say "I am going to hurt someone" she should have called the cops. The fact that she did not makes me believe it was way more vague than that.

as a psychiatrist, why would she actually say that she could be potentially danger to others ?

 

[shadowraiths]

I still don't see any answers on what these teams can do if the student voluntarily leaves the university and they lose jurisdiction.

Exactly. There's really nothing these teams can do if the student leaves the university. Imho, people are too focused upon the BETA team, when the focus, if at all relevant, was the fact that something caused fenton to contact them in the first place. That bit of information is, imho, the most concrete crack in the "holmes was a normal guy who just snapped" thesis. Even so, at this point, that is all it is. Simply bc we do not know:

a) what caused her to contact the BETA team in the first place
b) whether she continued to see him
c) whether she terminated their sessions
d) whether he terminated their sessions​

 

[newsleuther]

as a psychiatrist, why would she actually say that she could be potentially danger to others ?

Do we have a direct quote that Fenton said that? Those exact words... "he is a danger to others"

 

[songline]

The University has to follow Colorado Laws

The laws vary when it comes to MI... Each situation is considered differently.
ONLY one thing has to be in place for hopitalization "Had to be a danger, Perceived dangerous" no court order at all.

 

[newsleuther]

His Dr. did not alert people because his hair was a funny color.

He did not fail the oral exam because he is smart... he was already not focused by that exam time.

We have no idea why his Doctor alerted anyone, that's the point.