Armchair psychology - How many of these traits fit Misty?

Armchair psychology - Could Misty be a sociopath?

  • Yes, I think she might be

    Votes: 34 22.5%
  • No, I don't think she has any mental issues

    Votes: 40 26.5%
  • No, but I think she has BPD or some other mental issue

    Votes: 46 30.5%
  • Not sure what to think

    Votes: 31 20.5%

  • Total voters
    151
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Not open for further replies.
  • #61
:star1::star1::star1::star1::star1:
Post of the day!:applause::applause: Take a bow, Granna.:bow:

I've listened closely to Misty's published jailhouse conversations with her mom. I think that her mom has babied, enabled, and coddled Misty from day one. It's almost as though her mom is afraid of her in some way. She affirms any and everything that Misty says, with comments like "I know, baby," "You're right, baby." And Misty orders her around like she's her personal servant. Who's the parent here! I've also taken note of all the actions by the seemingly increasing number of feral kids in American society who do unconscienable things to the elderly and others. Seems that in every case, parents step in as the enablers that they've always been. In these so-called multigenerational welfare families, sometimes it takes just ONE person to look at him- or herself and saying, "This whole thing ends with ME. I refuse to perpetuate it anymore. The problem is with ME, not LE and everyone else in the society."
 
  • #62
I've listened closely to Misty's published jailhouse conversations with her mom. I think that her mom has babied, enabled, and coddled Misty from day one. It's almost as though her mom is afraid of her in some way. She affirms any and everything that Misty says, with comments like "I know, baby," "You're right, baby." And Misty orders her around like she's her personal servant. Who's the parent here! I've also taken note of all the actions by the seemingly increasing number of feral kids in American society who do unconscienable things to the elderly and others. Seems that in every case, parents step in as the enablers that they've always been. In these so-called multigenerational welfare families, sometimes it takes just ONE person to look at him- or herself and saying, "This whole thing ends with ME. I refuse to perpetuate it anymore. The problem is with ME, not LE and everyone else in the society."

Gotta love you for telling it like it is.

Misty & her entire family are delusional. They cheat, steal & lie. They have no education. They're all bums. They live off the system. Misty saw this growing up, and the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

Misty is a stone cold sociopath. She fits every trait on the list.

At one time or another over the course of this investigation into Haleigh's disappearance, she has exhibited every single trait on the list.

We have something to look forward to. If Misty goes to prison she won't be breeding.
 
  • #63
Misty has a low IQ. I would bet it is around 75-80. She is probably Fetal Alcohol Syndrome or FAE and will always have a mental age of around 11. Her opiate addiction also impairs her mental functioning.

Can she determine what is morally right and wrong? H*ll yes.
 
  • #64
I think it's hard when you don't know someone IRL to distinguish between what would be an actual disorder, and what is just the effects of drugs/youth/narcissism/stupidity. Add to that all the media "angles" and it's hard to say.

Frankly, I hope she doesn't have any "issues," so nothing will interfere with her fullest sentencing if she is found guilty.
 
  • #65
I haven't heard anything about Misty being a big liar except for accusations when it concerns her brother, and haven't heard of her being very manipulative or even overly dramatic yet. I think she got into drugs, had a bad family influence, and got into the wrong crowd but don't think she's a psychopath or mentally ill.

I agree, where was this girls Mother??
Who would let her live with an older guy with kids when she is so young?

So many bad parents out there, it is pathetic and I agree, she isnt charming type. She show very little emotion. I know at her age if I wouldve been in this mess I would've been crying and hysterical.
 
  • #66
I've listened closely to Misty's published jailhouse conversations with her mom. I think that her mom has babied, enabled, and coddled Misty from day one. It's almost as though her mom is afraid of her in some way. She affirms any and everything that Misty says, with comments like "I know, baby," "You're right, baby." And Misty orders her around like she's her personal servant. Who's the parent here! I've also taken note of all the actions by the seemingly increasing number of feral kids in American society who do unconscienable things to the elderly and others. Seems that in every case, parents step in as the enablers that they've always been. In these so-called multigenerational welfare families, sometimes it takes just ONE person to look at him- or herself and saying, "This whole thing ends with ME. I refuse to perpetuate it anymore. The problem is with ME, not LE and everyone else in the society."

Granna, it is not just multi generational welfare families. I have a friend, very middle class who REFUSES to see anything wrong her grown son does wrong. I also know of another one, very wealthy now, who always acused the police of picking on her son. Ew it makes me sick, no wonder these kids are such losers. The amount of stuff they buy them is ridiculous, too. So, if Mistys mother babies her and lets her do what she wants, no wonder she ended up in such a mess.
I find it hard to believe she was sleeping in same room as the little girl and didnt hear anything. No way.
 
  • #67
I took an Abnormal Psych course back in college, and when I first read the Antisocial Personality Disorder description then, my first thought was- Wow, that describes a lot of the over-indulged, under-disciplined teenagers I've known. I feel no different now than I did then. And I was basing this on observations of their regular life over a span of time, not just their behavior since a certain incident had occured.

BBM.

In today's society we always seem to try to label people with some disorder to explain the way they are.

Like Casey I see Misty as someone who was enabled, spoilt, never held accountable and, living in a dsyfunctional family. Misty is a product of her upbringing.

I see Misty as someone who plays the little lost girl when she needs to and the family comes to her rescue to save her from whatever screw-up or bad thing that she did -- her brothers and her parents. They are soft on her.

You can see/hear it in the jail tapes when it is all about Misty and Misty first and her mother goes along with Misty's assertions that it is not her, she is not involved .... rather than truly take her to task.

I/we even see it today with Gma Flora, I see Misty calling Gma to protest that it was not her, that it was others, to help save and protect her and, to get it out to point to Joe and not Misty. She is playing on Gma because Gma truly loves her grand-daughter so Misty can save herself and blame others ..... as she always has.
 
  • #68
BBM.

In today's society we always seem to try to label people with some disorder to explain the way they are.
:clap::clap: Much to our detriment, IMO.

Like Casey I see Misty as someone who was enabled, spoilt, never held accountable and, living in a dsyfunctional family. Misty is a product of her upbringing.

I see Misty as someone who plays the little lost girl when she needs to and the family comes to her rescue to save her from whatever screw-up or bad thing that she did -- her brothers and her parents. They are soft on her.

You can see/hear it in the jail tapes when it is all about Misty and Misty first and her mother goes along with Misty's assertions that it is not her, she is not involved .... rather than truly take her to task.

I/we even see it today with Gma Flora, I see Misty calling Gma to protest that it was not her, that it was others, to help save and protect her and, to get it out to point to Joe and not Misty. She is playing on Gma because Gma truly loves her grand-daughter so Misty can save herself and blame others ..... as she always has.
ITA It is glaringly evident in the LVA interview. When backed into a corner, she breaks down and cries, "How much do you think a 17 year-old can take?" Being the youngest sibling and the only girl, it's a survival technique she learned very early on. I suspect she was alleviated of any responsibility within the family unit.
 
  • #69
Yeah, bessie... It's always been bugging me about her, the way that she's happy enough to be hailed as the most mature 16 year old ever when it comes to defending the decision to leave two small children with her, to be her responsibility, but quickly reverts to "poor little me, I'm only seventeen and can't be expected to cope", when it comes to answering questions about the consequences to those children that were her responsibility.
 
  • #70
Yes, or capacities in areas that aren't measured on the Stanford-Binet, which is aimed at things that can be tested on paper. For example, someone may have high "intelligence" in areas like music, interpersonal relations, "body-kinesthetics" (to list a few of Howard Gardner's "multiple intelligences"). I would also count "intelligence" in areas that are no longer significant for many in highly developed post-industrial societies, like farming (not agri-business farming, but farming as it was done before practices like keeping chickens in cages, raising animals in pens where they can't move, etc.) and the ability to "read" aspects of the natural world (e.g., in the 2004 tsunami, how some people recognized that the ocean receding from the shore signaled a tsunami).

I'm not saying that Misty is intelligent, or not intelligent. I'm saying that even if she took the most recent Stanford-Binet, which claims to have corrected for cultural biases (in Misty's case, in regard to social class and economic strata) and literacy skills (testing aspects of intelligence in non-verbal tasks), there may be "intelligence," developed or otherwise, that wouldn't be "measured". I am a great skeptic in regard to the way many young people are marked as "low intelligence" based on school performance and standardized tests. It would seem to me that her impoverished emotional and social development, early drug abuse, as well as a family background that almost certainly did not prepare her well for schooling, might well explain her school failures--and might predict school failure even for someone with measurably high intelligence. I am also thinking here about possible pre-natal damage, given her mother's history of drug abuse, that might impair brain functioning, which could affect capacity, especially when coupled with an early childhood that is impoverished in terms of the kind of mental stimulation common for middle-class children from homes in which parents are not addicts or criminals. That is, Misty's background, both pre- and post-natal, might have an impact on "intelligence," both in terms of capacity and in making something of that capacity, including compensating for developmental delays.

What's really discouraging is how many Mistys and Tommys and Rons there are out there--kids who may start out with developmental issues because of their parents' alcohol or drug abuse, and then are raised in chaotic homes that don't prepare kids well for school or for life, who then abuse drugs an alcohol and bring children into the world who have the same handicaps to try to overcome (e.g., Ron, Jr., whose mother is an addict and whose father is now incarcerated). We just don't see these kids because their lives either don't land them in the public eye or they just get their few lines in the paper when they end up arrested, convicted, or dying young.

There's a group of four teenagers (16-17) who were arrested for shooting a retired firefighter who was walking his dog. They wanted money for drugs and decided to "rob the first person they saw." They used the pretext of asking if the dog would bite to approach the man but after he said the dog was "friendly," shot the man twice and killed him. Having not thought the matter through, they ended up NOT robbing the man because...they were afraid of the dog, who had just seen his master shot and killed. This, of course, is an extreme example. It's hard to imagine how they wouldn't have thought through the consequences of shooting a man walking a pit bull--what they would have to risk to pull the wallet out of his pocket, for example--or that they gave no thought to the ubiquitous security cameras on city streets. But they had made a "decision" and followed it through--right to jail.

These punks are getting their few lines in the paper now, but soon they will be tried, convicted and sent to prison for life. There's a video of them stalking the man they killed, and all four of them are pointing the finger at the others. No one outside this city will ever know their names, and most of us will (I hope) remember the man they killed and not the names of the killers. But they are, more or less, like Misty, kids being lost to gross negligence by their parents, communities rotten with drugs and guns, their own addictions, schools totally unprepared to deal with their problems, and their own total lack of empathy for others--whether the result of psychopathy or more simply the fact that no one ever taught them to care about anyone except themselves.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10100/1049254-53.stm#ixzz0ko1K01FV

Great post!

My son is a dyslexic 3-D visual learner.

He has failed every standard test ever given to him - infact with a 7% full scale IQ.

He has the ability to visualize images 360. On his standard testing for patterns he recieved a 0 because he disoriented himself and made the pattern upside-down, so that the tester could see it properly form his view.
Words like snug can be read as guns or pin and nip ect.

His comunication skills (the ability to tell a story) remind me alot of Misty's - very scattered.
 
  • #71
Thanks Zaha...very interesting. Pittsburgh, also very interesting.

Misty is tricky for me. I see many sides to her. She denies reality when it is necessary for her ego. She never gets angry with anything concerning ron. He can call her vile names and be seen with other women and it rolls off of her. She is animated at times when it comes to him but presents rather dull otherwise. Her voice modulates differently depending on who she is trying to convince. She parrots people's thoughts and opinions and seems to have none of her own.

At first I thought she was Borderline but now I am not sure. I see an attachment disorder and an identity disorder. I think she is mentally ill and she has learned to pretend she is normal. She has different personalities or acts she displays when provoked or questioned. Her development has been stunted. Her imagination gets in the way of her explanations of events. The only thing that appears real to her is her devotion to rc. The more she is denied rc, the stronger her attachment. I have seen this with delusional people. I am not saying she is delusional, I am not sure but she is fixed in her thinking concerning ron.

She is not able to place herself in another's shoes, so reasoning that way won't work....no abstract thinking going on there. She is difficult to assess from what we have seen.
 
  • #72
state which issues seem to fit or not fit what we know about Misty and why.
*********************************************************

# Glibness and Superficial Charm

# Manipulative and Conning

# Grandiose Sense of Self

# Pathological Lying

# Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt

# Shallow Emotions

# Incapacity for Love

# Need for Stimulation

# Callousness/Lack of Empathy

# Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature

# Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency

# Irresponsibility/Unreliability

# Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity

# Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle

# Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility


I'm assuming from the poll, I must have voted "no" originally since that's what I see in italics.

After thinking about this, I've bolded the parts I now think describe Misty. I don't think she has "charm", so I didn't choose that. Her capacity to love is questionable, although we've heard her say she loves her family, Haleigh, Rjr, and Ronald. I'll take the Fifth on that. I'm not sure she has shallow emotions. I'm not sure she has emotions, except for herself. I point to the Fifth on this, too, I guess.

So after rethinking everything, I guess I should have voted differently. This doesn't mean I think she's any less culpable in what happened to Haleigh. If she had come forward earlier, I would say, this girl knows right from wrong and cares about the baby, but she didn't. She cares about Misty. Who else she's protecting is the "key". I'm not saying this girl doesn't have big problems, it's obvious she does from watching her family and learning about their lifestyles, plus their criminal records. However, one is expected to rise above that and lead a decent life, not follow the pack. In her case, I can see how it would be very difficult to do, without a decent education, without respectable people in her world.

I do admit, there are times I actually feel sorry for this girl (the child Misty, not the 18 year-old). I'm not willing to say "Yes, she is a sociopath" but I am willing to say her terrible childhood and her family contributed to the person she is today. So, as usual, the poll doesn't have my exact answer: "No, she isn't a sociopath, but she does have issues that need to be addressed". Talk about a long and painful process to help this girl become a viable, decent adult. Also, does she have learning disabilities or did she just think school was a waste of time? I'm not willing to accept she has a "mental illness" because her silence for more than a year states clearly she knows what happened was wrong and telling the truth would get herself into trouble, as well as whomever else was involved. She clearly has a common sense problem.

This is a toughy. I'd have to work on it more, and I have a feeling I'd change my mind again on the bolded points. :sleuth:
 
  • #73
Does anyone know off hand how many of the traits listed in Post 1 have to be met before a diagnosis can be made for that personality disorder? TIA. IIRC not all have to be met just a certain number.

I see I had voted in this a long time ago. At that time I voted I don't know. I still don't, lol.

ASPD and NPD share a lot of characteristics. I'm not sure where within the definition of all the PD's MC fits.

She was very young when the homicide of Haleigh happened. We haven't seen enough of her history prior to that to know if there were consistent trends or troubles. IMHO.

She doesn't scream PD. That's the problem for me. I don't doubt she has one though. FWIW I have a very narrow and uncompassionate view of PD's and I'm working on that. At this time, I'm still working to accept and aknowledge that these are mental disorders. I see them as deficit of personality. As a deficit of character. (I'm really working hard on the compassion department!)
 
  • #74
I think Misty is a very immature teenager, who suffers from a lack of education & coping skills. I think she was victimized as a child, & learned to disconnect from problems & I think this is why she seems shallow. She chooses to NOT FACE NEGATIVITY, & since her life is full of nothing but negativity right now, she resides in la la land. I think she lets men & other adults use her, because being victimized is the norm for her. So, when Ron hired 2 lawyers, to her 0, & she flippantly popped off, that innocent people didn't need lawyers, she didn't realize that she was being victimized & left in the dust. She said that Ronald wasn't calling her the 'dumb bi**h', but was referring to the 911 operator. He obviously gave her that glib explanation, & she bought it. She has very little reasoning skills, & doesn't see farther into the future, than the front of her face. Promiscuous? Yes, but most molest survivors are. The same with the drug use. Plus, she was raised in a home, where drugs weren't the exception to the rule. I think most of her control problems, stem from lax parenting, as does her lack of life plan & parasitic lifestyle. Her whole family lives like that. As for being manipulative? no more than the average teenager, especially one who was deprived as a child & has been fending for herself. I do see her as being easily manipulated. As for lack of remorse shame or guilt? I don't know about that one.

I could not agree more with your assessment of Misty. I don't think she is suffering from any sort of mental illness/disease but rather is imature and a product of her environment. You have so captured my feeling of Misty and who she is and isn't that your post quite literally could have had my name on it.
 
  • #75
Dr. Robert Hare has long been the leading researcher and expert in the study of the psychopath (some use the term sociopath). Hare believes they are not the same, stating that, while all psychopaths could be labeled sociopaths, not all sociopaths would be labeled psychopaths. (This is not a direct quote and is not found in the article below. I believe I read it in his book, "Without Conscience." In the linked page below there are several articles and one talks about this book).

In this book he also discusses degrees of psychopathy, in answer to a question Kimster posed. As I haven't read this entire thread yet I hope I'm not repeating information. I will say, even though Dr. Hare warns against labeling people without the proper credentials and tools (it is just so hard not to attempt to find answers to why people behave the way they do!) that it is Ron Cummings who I believe would fit the criteria of psychopath and sociopath and anti-social personality disorder much more neatly than Misty Croslin Cummings.

THIS IS, OF COURSE, JUST MY OPINION.


Here is one link of many to be found online:

http://www.all-about-forensic-psychology.com/psychopath.html

"Psychopathy: Key Definitions & Points of Reference

A primary aim of discussing personality disorder was to make it clear that a psychopath is not mentally ill in the traditional sense of the word.

A common mistake is to assume that the terms psychopathy and psychotic are interrelated; they are not. A psychotic individual is essentially out of touch with reality, she or he is likely to be delusional and experience hallucinations, and is, therefore, behaviorally speaking, completely unaware of what they are doing and why they are doing it.

Psychopathic behavior on the other hand is rational, it represents an informed choice, a premeditated strategy to act in way that serves as an effective means to an end. As Robert Hare states:

'Psychopaths are social predators who charm, manipulate, and ruthlessly plow their way through life, leaving a broad trail of broken hearts, shattered expectations, and empty wallets. Completely lacking in conscience and in feelings for others, they selfishly take what they want and do as they please, violating social norms and expectations without the slightest sense of guilt or regret'.

Because of the possible confusion with the term psychotic, some writers prefer to employ the term sociopath, although like profiling, the preferred label more likely reflects the theoretical preference of the author.

For instance, Hare is explicit in his use of the term because he feels that it encapsulates his belief that the condition is a result of psychological, biological and genetic factors."

A link to Robert Hare's website:

http://www.hare.org/
 
  • #76
Misty and which of the below personality traits I feel she has. My selections are bolded.

# Glibness and Superficial Charm
I do not find her charming or charismatic in the least and feel this one doesn't apply

# Manipulative and Conning
I do not find her at all a skilled manipulator although I do see her attempting to, just not very well, or successfully

# Grandiose Sense of Self
The exact opposite. I find her to exhibit classic behaviors indicating a low or non existent self esteem

# Pathological Lying
No more so a liar than many other "normal" teens when confronted with unpleasant consequences.

# Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
I don't feel those qualities are lacking in her personality, I just feel she is typical self involved teen. In other words, I don't feel she doesn't have them, just doesn't use them often (moo)

# Shallow Emotions
I feel she is very emotionally stunted and that the cause is environmental

# Incapacity for Love
Misty has the capacity to love but her love is a very immature (high schooly) kind

# Need for Stimulation
I feel that is what has attracted her to RC and the lifestyle he was engaged in. Excitement is very attractive to a certain type of teen girl with self esteem issues.

# Callousness/Lack of Empathy
Her "me me- all about me" attitude is not at all unusual at her age and I don't think it evidence of mental health issue.
# Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
Also typical of an immature teenage girl in "love" with an older, more life experienced grown man

# Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency
I know nothing of her as a youngster or her behavior

# Irresponsibility/Unreliability
Drug use can be blamed for this IMOO

# Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity
Commonly caused by molestation or exposure at young age to inapproriate sexual behavior in childhood

# Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle
Nurture not nature. She was raised by an entire family who exhibit those qualities. Who exactly would she have learned anything other than parasitic lifestyle from?

# Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility
She was obviously NOT a very good or versatile criminal based on her drug bust on video to undercover officer

So there you have it, my take on Misty, although she seems to exhibit many of the traits listed above, I do not find them evidence of mental illness but rather specific to her age, maturity level, and upbringing.
 
  • #77
Misty might probably be more easily diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder, but I don't know. She's certainly got a lot of characteristics that Kim posted. Both have pretty shallow emotions, which Misty has displayed. A lot of people would have expressed more distress at the disappearance or death of a dog than Misty displayed with Haleigh's disappearance. Even when you see that sad look she pulls up, you can tell that, no, her world has not been rocked.

And as far as all the talk about her so called love for Ron, wasn't she going to help Tommy and Joe steal Ron's gun? A borderline would do something exactly like that; borderlines do things exactly like that all the time.

Drug addiction symptoms can be outwardly identical to symptoms of other disorders, but drug addicts don't get a pass from other diagnoses--it's just what drives the pathological behavior should be considered. With addiction, criminal behaviors are often limited to using the drug and getting the drug, both purchasing it and stealing whatever is necessary to get the money. Dead bodies aren't part of the deal.

An addict's lying is often limited to whether or how much of a drug has been used and lying to get the drug.

Misty's lying cannot be explained by drug addiction.

When you've got two types of pathology running together, things can get cloudy. Additionally, borderlines and antisocial personalities are frequently heavy drug users, but often, believe it or not, not real drug addicts--that is, they have the ability to suddenly stop.

Drug addiction does not explain all of the pathological behaviors of Ron, Misty, or Tommy. There's more going on here. I'm sure they've all lied to get drugs, stolen to get drugs, lied about stealing, and lied about how much they've used. But there's a lot more: And if just plain vanilla drug addicts were somehow involved in or on the outskirts of a crime like this, the cops would have solved the crime before the newspapers found out there was a crime because plain drug addicts are extremely quick to rat.
 
  • #78
So there you have it, my take on Misty, although she seems to exhibit many of the traits listed above, I do not find them evidence of mental illness but rather specific to her age, maturity level, and upbringing.

I agree. Labeling her with a mental illness is a mistake, imo. I blame her upbringing more than anything, as well as her lack of maturity. She appears to be quite young, mentally, not at all on level with her age.
 
  • #79
out of these traits, IMO, the overriding one that characterizes Misty, is her need for stimulation. Whether it be drug induced, or just exagerated teenaged drama...that's Misty. Starting from her 'I got your man ms post', telling Ron that she was pregnant, to her revenge weekend with WBG, her marraige, divorce, 911 call over her purse, road rage with Donna Brock, road rage with Ron, drug trafficking, & her Ron tattoo-she knew that thing would get attention. & I'm sure I'm leaving out a lot, but look up 'DRAMA QUEEN' in the dictionary, & there will be a picture of Misty. She & Ron, (who is also stimulous addicted), make for an explosive pair.
 
  • #80
IMO ..if Misty is "borderline" anything it is mentally retarded. I agree with some who think Misty is product of a mother who took drugs and or used alcohol during pregnancy and maybe even include the product of one or both parents who seem to have low IQ's

I know the use of the term "mentally retarded" is not PC, but it is still used within the medical field often when describing someone with low IQ test scores
An IQ under 70 is considered as "mental retardation" or limited mental ability. 5% of the population falls below 70 on IQ tests. The severity of the mental retardation is commonly broken into 4 levels:
 
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