ARUBA - Robyn Gardner, 35, Maryland woman missing in Aruba, 2 Aug 2011 - # 4

[otto]

My bolding

Then how did Julia Renfro, a small time local reporter, know exactly what was on the photos?

That "small time reporter", whom we know well from the disappearance of Ms Holloway, heard that the photos on the camera were pornographic from the investigators. Taco Stein has also said that the photos were pornographic, but that this information is not really part of the investigation into the disappearance of Ms Gardner.

 

[HatesSociopaths]

I repeat, the common denominator is Taco Stein and the Aruban authorities and investigators.

From a CNN / HLN transcript:

"DIAZ: Now, there were also reports of a bloody hand print, but Taco Stein is backing off from that claim now.

Martin Savidge, I want to go back to you very, very quickly. What about that bloody hand print? Is it rumor or real?

SAVIDGE: No, it appears at this point it is not real. Authorities really are playing that down. They say it never existed. Unfortunately, if it had existed, that could have been a key piece of evidence. Of course, one, it could have indicated that you really had a strong sense of foul play. Also if you could check it with DNA you could have perhaps learned a lot.

But they say no; that was not the case. Same with what was described as an unused condom. That also has not been found.

There is a lot of misinformation you will find on this island which is why the reporting has to be very careful."

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1108/22/ijvm.01.html

I think you must have come in late on the thread? All these points - the bloody handprint, the condom, etc. originated with ABC.

 

[AngelFish]

Google earth routes the distance from Baby Beach to the Marriot tennis courts in Oranjestad on Rt. 4 to be

30.6 km = 19.6353 mi.

About 31 mins.

Can anyone verify?

It has to be shorter than that. I'd say it is not more than 10-12 miles from the Ren to the Rum Reef.

 

[otto]

From their hotel to the Cafe is about a 15-20 minute drive. It is a small Island. The Rum Reef Cafe is on the same road to get to Baby Beach, might take you 1-2 minutes to drive.

How do you arrive at a time of 15 minutes from the cafe to the hotel?

 

[annalia]

I think you must have come in late on the thread? All these points - the bloody handprint, the condom, etc. originated with ABC.

Not so, it was reported in the Aruba Herald

In the meantime police sources say that Aruban authorities are waiting for the lab results on traces of blood that were found and a condom that was taken out of the wrapper, but was not used. These two “items”, if after tests are found to be evidence in this case, might determine if Gary Giordano is found guilty of the disappearance or death of Robyn Gardner. The police are very cautious and not giving information on the investigation as to avoid any disturbance. Even so, information is leaking. The main challenge in this case is that no body has been found yet.

http://arubaherald.com/911/863-poss...-womans-case-condom-and-blood-on-a-stone.html

 

[AngelFish]

That should be about 12 miles through residential areas so I think it could take maybe 40-45 minutes at least each way ... but that's a guess. They left the cafe at 4:12ish and then went down the dirt road to the SE tip of the Island where they were seen by the fisherman, so that 1h45m wasn't all unaccounted for.

No way, it doesn't take that long. I've driven from further than the Ren to Baby Beach, it takes us 20 minutes. You can drive around that entire island in 1.5-2 hours.

 

[AngelFish]

How do you arrive at a time of 15 minutes from the cafe to the hotel?

I go to Aruba, I've done the drive - more than once.

 

[annalia]

That "small time reporter", whom we know well from the disappearance of Ms Holloway, heard that the photos on the camera were pornographic from the investigators. Taco Stein has also said that the photos were pornographic, but that this information is not really part of the investigation into the disappearance of Ms Gardner.

Please, you know that is just not true. I posted the exact quote that JR gave to the US media.

JR gave in specific, exact detail exactly what was shown on the photos, what can be seen on them and what couldn't be seen on them, what you could or couldn't tell. Taco Stein gave no specific details whatsoever.

Only someone who either had them in their possession, saw them for themselves or was told the specific details to pass on to the US media would know that much about them.

Unless she made it all up too.

Who said it isn't part of the investigation?

 

[Magdalyn]

In this picture - is this a picture from the tourist, or from a trip she made with RF, who supplied some pictures??? :crazy:
Just wanted to nail down the correct times in the TimeLine!

This is from the pic the FBI and the Natalee Halloway Resource Center have been using for their missing posters. It's been used since August 9th, perhaps even earlier. On the 9th, it was labeled as an 'undated photo' and has never been labeled or described in the media, by the FBI, or by the Natalee Holloway Resource center as a photo taken in Aruba or as a photo taken on the last day she was seen alive.

It also closely resembles another picture Richard Forester provided CNN; odds are, he (or one of her other friends) provided it when she first went missing. :seeya:

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/kidnap/robyn-lynn-gardner/view

http://www.carrollcountytimes.com/n...1e0-b7ba-001cc4c03286.html?mode=image&photo=0

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-501369_162-20091095.html

http://articles.cnn.com/2011-08-18/...ities-travel-insurance-aruba-cops?_s=PM:WORLD

 

[Niner]

Updated Temporary TimeLine as of 9/3 at 4:30pm PST

TimeLine (approx)
July 2011 - Robyn sends GG a text "Get me out of here." Per a report. there is a fight just prior to leaving for Aruba between GG and RF.

Sunday, July 31st - Flight time from Maryland to Orlando is about 1 1/2 hours. Given the time they would have needed to be at the airport for security, my guess-timate is that they were at the airport no later than 6am.

9am – Orlando Airport: ABC News has seen receipts that revealed that the couple ordered four Bloody Marys at 9 a.m. at the Orlando Airport on their way to the island,

?? Arrive at hotel - and that the two bought a liter of Ciroq vodka after they checked into their room at the Marriott Hotel in Aruba.

Monday, August 1st - GG and RG bought bottle of vodka this day, per reports. Nothing else reported as of 9-2-11 of their time spent for day.

Monday, August 1st – 5:02pm – Facebook comment: “the 16. I can communicate here.”

Tuesday. August 2nd – 2:05 am - Facebook comment left on RF's wall by Robyn: "This sucks."

Tuesday, August 2nd – 6:51am - Prime murder suspect Gary Giordano, who friends said she met on a swingers sex site, is thought to have threatened to kill her while grabbing her by the neck and shoving her into an elevator on August 2 - the last day Miss Gardner, 35, was seen alive. The videotape from the Marriott Resort in Aruba allegedly shows the two having a furious and violent fight on the day she went missing. A source close to the investigation told the National Enquirer: 'They were having a major fight. Robyn was waving her arms and shouting at Giordano. He was grabbing her arms and jerking her around and shouting back at her. 'Then Giordano apparently realized their argument was heating up in public where someone might overhear them. He violently grabbed the back of Robyn's neck with one hand and shoved her back into the elevator with the other hand.' The source said lip-readers believe Robyn was shouting at Mr. Giordano: 'I'm out of here. I'm leaving. I'm not spending another minute with you,' while he yelled back: 'Get back here! I'll kill you!'

Tuesday, August 2nd – 7:57am - Facebook: RF to Robyn: “?? InBox me”

3:06pm - Arrived at restaurant – Seen on camera entering restaurant.

3:10 pm - Robyn sends RF a Facebook message 'Don't worry. I care about you I love you we'll talk and sort things out when I got back,' Reportedly went to bathroom after entering restaurant.

4:13 pm - Robyn is last seen (leaving restaurant). A man who works near Baby Beach reported seeing their vehicle park up by the rocks close to the water, wondered why they chose there to go snorkeling. A fisherman comes forward and says that GG and RG never went into the water. Gardner was last seen alive Aug. 2 at the Rum Reef Bar & Grill in the Baby Beach area of Aruba with Gary Giordano - approximately 4pm. Giordano, 50, and Gardner, 35, had traveled to Aruba together. He is being held in an Arubian jail but could be released today. Giordano claims that Gardner got swept out to sea when the two went snorkeling.

apprx. 4:22pm - Approximately 10 minutes after leaving restaurant a fisherman reportedly saw Giordano and Gardner leaving a beach together, and said they did not get into the water.

6:02 pm - Giordano reportedly is seen in surveillance video, tapping on closed shutters of the bar – per “sources” even though it has been mentioned that there are NO cameras in the back of restaurant.

6:20 pm - GG reportedly headed to the back kitchen of the bar and told someone to call police. Three witnesses, two women and a man, told police that Giordano approached them on Aug. 2, saying, "Can you help me? We were snorkeling and my girlfriend is missing," she told police. One woman told police that while Giordano's sneakers were wet, his shorts were not. When Giordano reported Gardner missing, he seemed extremely drunk, a local fisherman, Sergio Silva, told ABC News, although Giordano told police that the two never purchased alcohol at the restaurant.

6.23 pm - 911 received notification of a possible drowning of a woman. The traveling companion of this woman, a man G.V.G. stated that they were going snorkeling behind Nanki Country Club.
At 6:23 p.m. on the day of her disappearance, police were called, and 20 minutes later began to search the area. Then, Giordano left the search to return to his hotel and take a nap, according to police. Disclaimer: This claim, at 6.40 GG went for a nap, not true, there are various pics of GG helping the police in the dark, pics where it is completely dark, it takes till 7:30 for it to get dark, so GG was not taking a nap at 6:40, he still was working with the police at least at 7:30.

Wednesday, August 4th - Robin’s mother arrives.

Wednesday, August 4th – original date to fly back

Friday, August 5th - Three days after the search for Gardner began, Giordano got within feet of leaving the country before he was stopped at Aruba's airport where he told U.S. Customs he had to change flights because of weather, and told officials that his travel companion was "taking another flight." He was trying to board a flight one hour earlier than his scheduled departure. When arrested, authorities say Giordano was drenched in sweat. Mug shot after being arrested trying to get on a plane off the island.

 

[HatesSociopaths]

Not so, it was reported in the Aruba Herald



http://arubaherald.com/911/863-poss...-womans-case-condom-and-blood-on-a-stone.html

Thanks that is helpful - that is a website I didn't check earlier as to the earliest place that it is reported.

Here is how the news broke on here:






I think the earlier post mentioning what Martin Savidge said is telling - he knows that a lot of misinformation is floating around, and for one reason or another his reporting has been much more accurate than ABC, at least if we are going by what Stein has confirmed and denied.

 

[Niner]

It has to be shorter than that. I'd say it is not more than 10-12 miles from the Ren to the Rum Reef.

That's okay - no need to argue - as I 'see' that the elevator incident happened early in the morning, and NOT after they ate/drank at the restaurant. :loser:

Edited to add: I'll leave up the Timeline that we have so far, until we can get more accurate info comes our way!

 

[Tugela]

There are two common denominators - Taco Stein and ABC. One of them is wrong. Asking another media outlet to look into it seems logical to me, perhaps you can enlighten me how this is foolish. Also, explain to me how one should jump to the conclusion Aruban authorities are the ones spreading disinformation. If anything, they are keeping their evidence under wraps and have made no attempts to manipulate the story.

ABC is getting their information from "unknown sources". The assumption they would be making is that these sources are telling them real information. Which might be true or it might not be, but that is a point they are not pressing too much. The person telling them this stuff might be passing on second or third hand information (and consequently distorted), or might simply be making stuff up in order to get paid.

 

[wfgodot]

They are "unnamed sources," and I would well imagine they are known to ABC. Generally speaking, reporters, at least in the past, will not report information from unnamed sources unless it is verified by at least two different sources.

 

[wfgodot]

Here's a bit on handling off-the-record sources from the AP Stylebook (2009); ABC and other news organizations do not have to do the same thing of course, but it is instructive:

Whenever possible, we pursue information on the record. When a source insists on background of off-the-record ground rules, we must adhere to a strict set of guidelines. Under AP’s rules material from anonymous sources may be used only if: [a] The material is information and is not opinion or speculation, and is vital to the news report. The information is not available except under the conditions of anonymity imposed by the source. [c] The source is reliable, and in a position to have accurate information. Reporters who intend to use material from anonymous sources must get approval from their news managers. Explain in the story why the sources requested anonymity. And, when it’s relevant, describe the source’s motive for disclosing the information. The story also must provide attribution that establishes the source’s credibility; simply quoting “a source” is not allowed. Be as descriptive as possible.

http://www.anonymoussources.org/?p=37

 

[annalia]

Thanks that is helpful - that is a website I didn't check earlier as to the earliest place that it is reported.

Here is how the news broke on here:






I think the earlier post mentioning what Martin Savidge said is telling - he knows that a lot of misinformation is floating around, and for one reason or another his reporting has been much more accurate than ABC, at least if we are going by what Stein has confirmed and denied.

But the point is that it was reported from Aruba, blood and a condom, that they were both being tested. ABC didn't just make it up.

Would the Aruba Herald be a source?

TS then later comes out and says no blood and no condom, is that how it happened? Then blame it all on the bad US media?

NG isn't ABC and that's where I suspect blood may have turned into bloody handprint, from NG. But the fact that they had found blood, had also been reported from Aruba in the Aruba Herald.

 

[Micheline]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...urance-policy/2011/08/31/gIQASpa2rJ_blog.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/feedarticle/9824660

Thanks HS.

I posted the quote though because it contradicts the claim from ABC that "FBI investigators working the case in the United States are struggling to get information from the Aruban authorities" regarding the insurance policy.


Giordano told authorities about the travel insurance, Stein said, and the FBI brought copies of the policy to Aruba this week. Investigators were still going through the documents, and Stein could not confirm the amount of the coverage or who the beneficiary was.
http://articles.cnn.com/2011-08-17/w...cy?_s=PM:WORLD

 

[HatesSociopaths]

Thanks HS.

I posted the quote though because it contradicts the claim from ABC that "FBI investigators working the case in the United States are struggling to get information from the Aruban authorities" regarding the insurance policy.


Giordano told authorities about the travel insurance, Stein said, and the FBI brought copies of the policy to Aruba this week. Investigators were still going through the documents, and Stein could not confirm the amount of the coverage or who the beneficiary was.
http://articles.cnn.com/2011-08-17/w...cy?_s=PM:WORLD

Oh OK thanks. One more inconsistency, I agree.

 

[Micheline]

TimeLine (approx) Updated at 3:05pm - 9/2/11:
/snipped/
Sunday, July 31st - On this day another tourist had talked to RG and said that it looked like RG and GG were NOT having a good time. - CJ

Respectfully snipped since I am only adressing this part.

The woman on the beach did not really say they were not having a good time, she posted on Help Find Robyn FB how she met Robyn and GG, the message is no longer there, but the text was:


I met Robyn and Gary on the beach in front of the Marriott Stellaris Hotel on Sunday, July 31. They had arrived on that day. My husband and I sat and spoke with them for awhile. They asked my husband and I about activities on the island.... Was shocked to see that this had happened, since we just spoke with them last Sunday, late afternoon. I am sure it was Robyn because I commented on her tatoo, indicating that I liked it. Didn't think they went together as a couple, as he was much older. She was also sitting kind of far away from him on the beach chair. She was nice. We were actually discussing the Natalee Holloway case. I will pray for her return.

IMO this woman does not say anything negative about the atmosphere between Robyn and GG, she only mentiones Robyn was sitting kind of far away from GG, but that could be for example due to Robyn wanting to sit in the shade under a palapa, and GG wanting to sit in the sun.

 

[Micheline]

HS what do you think of this claim from ABC:

A worker at the restaurant also told ABC News that Giordano returned to the restaurant less than 12 hours after Gardner vanished, this time with an attorney, and appeared "indifferent" to his girlfriend's disappearance.
http://abcnews.go.com/International/robyn-gardner-photo-vanished-aruba/story?id=14361836

It would mean GG returned to the restaurant in the middle of the night.