Ask Me Anything/ Paul Holes Cold Case Forensic Investigator/ Feb 27th at 8:00 PM Eastern.

[Tricia]

This thread is now open if you would like to thank Paul Holes for his participation

 

[Tricia]

Paul Holes' podcast Buried Bones
Available on Apple and Spotify

 

[Tricia]

Welcome Paul Holes author of the book Unmasked My Life Solving America's Cold Cases and host of
podcast Buried Bones Available on Apple and Spotify

 

[Paul Holes]

Hi All! Thanks Tricia for inviting me. I'm going to try to answer your questions the best I can.

 

[Tricia]

From MadMcGoo I'd be interested in hearing anything you can share about your investigation into Phillip and Nancy Garrido. They kidnapped Jaycee Dugard

 

[Tricia]

Remember everyone to keep hitting your refresh button to get the most current answers.

 

[Paul Holes]

There is so much about that case. First, I was not involved in the original investigation in the Jaycee Dugard case. Once I found out that El Dorado County and the FBI were at the Garrido residence, I researched him and realized he could have a connection to some of my unsolved cases out of Pittsburg, CA. I worked with my bud Conaty and a DA to get a search warrant to go onto the Garrido property for those cases. Then Alameda Sheriff and Hayward wanted to search for the Garecht and MIshelhof missing girl cases and I helped them. I spent two weeks searching the Garrido property. All I can say at this moment is that Jaycee is an absolute hero in surviving and protecting her kids over the course of almost two decades under some of the most horrific conditions imaginable.

 

[Tricia]

Thank you Paul. That case so bizarre. Here is an update from People Magazine about Jaycee and her children.

Where Are Jaycee Dugard and Her Daughters Today? A Look at Their Lives After Abduction

Jaycee Dugard was kidnapped in broad daylight in 1991 when she was just 11 years old. She and her two daughters were rescued 18 years later; here’s everything to know about Jaycee Dugard's life today.

people.com

Paul can you comment on the JonBenet Ramsey case?

 

[Tricia]

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[Paul Holes]

Regarding the Ramsey case - The DNA evidence of course needs to be pursued and fortunately in the day and age, if there is any DNA extract remaining, genealogy can possibly identify whose DNA it is. However, the location and trace amount of the DNA source leads me to believe it may be spurious - possibly contamination. For example, this was during an era when pathologists would be doing an autopsy on one body, then come over without changing gloves and looking at a homicide victim. I've told Colorado analysts to identify all bodies in the morgue at the time her body was there. During this time clothing evidence would be hung up in drying cabinets with items from other cases in some agencies causing cross transfer. Until they exhaust all sources of contamination, I am skeptical about the probative nature of this DNA. I want to see DNA coming from sources I know the offender touched such as the garotte. IMO, the other evidence in this case such as the garotte that was just placed around her neck and made from materials in the house, the ransom letter written on a notepad from within the house etc. indicates this is a staged crime scene and a very limited suspect pool. I can not comment any further than that at this time.

 

[Tricia]

Imstilla.grandma says. Hello Paul. I'd like to hear a little bit about how you handled the emotional intensity sometimes experienced while searching for answers. It's often difficult and painful to detach from the victim and their fate, especially with children and young women and girls.

 

[Paul Holes]

Oh boy....I wish I had a good answer. I continue to have my ups and downs. I recently looked at a case that I hadn't opened in probably 15 years then was surprised at the emotional impact I immediately had looking at the victim. It was like being punched in the gut and I was surprised that I experienced that feeling. The coping mechanisms generally are unhealthy and I recognize that and I try to change what I'm doing but often fall back into the same bad habits.

I really do think that research needs to be done to better understand the impact working horrific cases has on the law enforcement professionals and what the best therapeutic modalities would be. I'm a big proponent of pressing law enforcement and government entities to better address the psychological toll the career can have for those assigned to homicide, sexual assault, child abuse, death investigations….. There's so many areas within this world that have lasting negative impacts on the individuals that work within these units.

 

[Tricia]

Teamir asks When I advocate for a cold case how should I approach law enforcement so they don't think I am criticizing or trying to interfere

 

[Paul Holes]

As Yeardley says from Small Town Dicks - law enforcement are a squirrely bunch LOL. I do think it's hard to give a single answer as each agency, each case, the assigned investigators etc will have varying characteristics on how they would respond to somebody trying to advocate for an unsolved case. Generally the best approach is always to include the family and to try to establish a collaborative process with the agency. In my experience families that stay in touch with the agency have the most impact getting law enforcement to put resources on their case.

But I've heard so many negative interactions families and advocates have had with the assigned investigators and the agencies... I can understand where there are frustrations. In fact I'm experiencing those frustrations myself now as a civilian trying to approach agencies to help them with their cases. Even I get the cold shoulder most of the time.

 

[Tricia]

@Insightful1 Was a profile created on the Golden State killer ? If so how closely did it match DeAngelo ?​

 

[Tricia]

Paul Holes book is Unmasked My Life Solving America's Cold Cases. Paul is the host of the
podcast Buried Bones Available on Apple and Spotify

 

[Paul Holes]

Multiple profiles over the decades were created. Roy Hazelwood way back in the late 70s even did one. Like most profiles there were hits and misses. I debriefed with the last profiler who produced one and the most interesting aspect from the conversation was the different perspectives we each had. She looked at the inner psychology of GSK - insecure, non-confrontational with men and so on - and I looked at his external behaviors expressed to the surviving victims - dominant, psychologically sadistic. I'm a big believer in profiling but know its limitations when it comes to providing characteristics of an unknown offender.

 

[Tricia]

Cat Mommy Hi Paul, have you ever had just a feeling about a case that did or didn't pan out? Would you please share with us any cases that haunt you and why. This is a big ask and I thank you in advance.

 

[Tricia]

Did you know that it was Paul Hole's last day at the Contra Costa County Sheriff's Office when he went to DeAngelo's house and he collected his discarded DNA? That DNA eventually led to DeAngelo being identified as the Golden State Killer and the East Side Rapist. What a way to retire right?

 

[Paul Holes]

I felt GSK would be solved and that obviously panned out. I've had other cases I committed and tremendous amount of time and effort to that didn't - those are too many to list right now.

As far as cases that haunt me - Cosette Ellison. 1970 case out of Moraga. 15 yr old girl got off her school bus to walk home and never made. Body was found in a creek about a year later. I talked to her sisters who sent me family photos of Cosette growing up and I just got emotionally attached. Her sister knew what she was doing. But when I was told by the sister how Cosette was so scared of the Zodiac who was active at the time and then became a victim herself. It just tears me up. And no, Cosette is not a victim of Zodiac just to head that off right now. .