Ask Super

[Dru]

Hi, I'm new here, and I don't know if I'm doing this right. I had a question for SuperDave or anyone else who knows (sorry if it's been asked and answered a million times; I'm still getting caught up). My question is, what time did the R's really get home after the White's party on Christmas night? I've seen everything from 8pm to 10pm.

Thanks!

 

[LionRun]

Welcome Dru! I am pretty new too and am just catching up. I am unsure of the exact time; I can only guess 9 p.m. -9:15p.m. based on my memory of transcribed interviews of the R's--that I can't find right now. Stand by for others to help. You will enjoy workin' out the details on this forum. The people are very nice, helpful, and there are some sharp researchers on this site.

 

[Dru]

Thanks, LionRun!

I've been lurking here for a while now, and all the people here do seem really smart and really nice.

I think the R's must have arrived home by nine or so at the latest, which is why it's so confusing to see some transcripts of interviews where one or the other of them seems to say they came home much later than that.

 

[Eagle1]

Mary Lazy has called a grand jury...goodness know what 'evidence' Lazy will present to the grand jury.......

Good one.

 

[Show Me]

Mary Lazy has called a grand jury...goodness know what 'evidence' Lazy will present to the grand jury.......

Good one.

Thanks Eagle, I was trying to be funny, but when I reread it I sadly realize how true it is.

 

[Jayelles]

Thanks, LionRun!

I've been lurking here for a while now, and all the people here do seem really smart and really nice.

I think the R's must have arrived home by nine or so at the latest, which is why it's so confusing to see some transcripts of interviews where one or the other of them seems to say they came home much later than that.

Nine-ish seems to be the approximation of when they got home and there-in lies the mystery of the pineapple! Lou Smit describes the pineapple as the "bugaboo".

You see there was fresh pineapple lying out in a dish on the Ramsey kitchen counter and JonBenet was known to be very partial to pineapple. Pineapple wasn't served at the Whites' house.

Experts give us a 2-5 hour window during which the pineapple would have digested to the stage where it was in her system.

Now (the bugaboo bit) - the Ramseys left for the Whites' at 4-ish so if JonBenet had eaten the pineapple BEFORE she left for the Whites, then it means she died very shortly after arriving home - i.e. at the 5 hour edge of the 2-5 hour digestion period. However, John Ramsey and Burke didn't go to bed until some time after 10 because according to John, they made a model together before going to bed.

Alternatively, JonBenet could have died between midnight and 3am but that means she ate the pineapple when she got home and both Ramseys claim that she was asleep when they arrived home and didn't waken up even when she was undressed and put to bed. It should be noted however, that Burke allegedly claimed his sister was awake when they got home from the Whites and that she walked upstairs by hrself.

As Lou says - the big bugaboo!

 

[poco]

Nine-ish seems to be the approximation of when they got home and there-in lies the mystery of the pineapple! Lou Smit describes the pineapple as the "bugaboo".

You see there was fresh pineapple lying out in a dish on the Ramsey kitchen counter and JonBenet was known to be very partial to pineapple. Pineapple wasn't served at the Whites' house.

Experts give us a 2-5 hour window during which the pineapple would have digested to the stage where it was in her system.

Now (the bugaboo bit) - the Ramseys left for the Whites' at 4-ish so if JonBenet had eaten the pineapple BEFORE she left for the Whites, then it means she died very shortly after arriving home - i.e. at the 5 hour edge of the 2-5 hour digestion period. However, John Ramsey and Burke didn't go to bed until some time after 10 because according to John, they made a model together before going to bed.

Alternatively, JonBenet could have died between midnight and 3am but that means she ate the pineapple when she got home and both Ramseys claim that she was asleep when they arrived home and didn't waken up even when she was undressed and put to bed. It should be noted however, that Burke allegedly claimed his sister was awake when they got home from the Whites and that she walked upstairs by hrself.

As Lou says - the big bugaboo!

I thought I read at one point where PR said she read her a bedtime story or sang her a song - maybe she liked to sing to JB when she was asleep!!!???

 

[Jayelles]

I thought I read at one point where PR said she read her a bedtime story or sang her a song - maybe she liked to sing to JB when she was asleep!!!???

You are correct. I believe that Patsy spoke or sang the prayer "Now I lay me down to sleep" (I might have those words wrong as I'm only vaguely familiar with it).

 

[Ames]

You are correct. I believe that Patsy spoke or sang the prayer "Now I lay me down to sleep" (I might have those words wrong as I'm only vaguely familiar with it).

The words to that prayer and/or song are:

"Now I lay me down to sleep,
I pray the Lord my soul to keep.
If I should die before I wake,
I pray my soul the Lord shall take".


Kinda eerie, huh?

My daughter has a stuffed Precious Angel doll, that says it another way...more nicely...and less scary.

"Now I lay me down to sleep,
I pray the Lord my soul to keep,
And angels watch me through the night,
and keep me safe til morning light".

Frankly, I like the doll's version, better than the original!!!!!!

 

[Nuisanceposter]

My grandmother, raised Lutheran, taught me the first one, with an added stanza. Her version is:

Now I lay me down to sleep,
I pray the Lord my soul to keep.
If I should die before I wake,
I pray my soul the Lord shall take.
This I ask for Jesus's sake.
Jesus, Savior, wash away
All that has been wrong today.
Help me every day to be
Good and gentle, just like thee.

She also told me I didn't need to be afraid at night because angels came and stood around my bed, which harkens to the doll's prayer. Interesting.

How many of us believe that Patsy, after a very long day with getting up early to open presents with the fam and the party at the White's with packing for the trip to Michigan and the Disney cruise would stand there singing to a child who was already asleep?

I don't think she did. I know I wouldn't have. Not that I don't want to pray for my children, but if I've been busy doing stuff all day and need to pack for the next morning in addition to getting up before dawn to make a flight, I'm not going to waste time standing there singing to someone who isn't even going to hear it. I need to get my crap done so I can get some sleep before we have to leave.

I think Patsy probably did sing to JonBenet that night, but I think JonBenet was awake when she did it, if she did. John's original story to police was that he read the kids a book and tucked JB in bed, with Patsy helping. JR said that he had been misunderstood in the police reports of 12/26, and that he hadn't meant he read to the kids before they went to bed, but that they went to bed and he read a book. ST notes this in his book (hb, pg173) and points out that three police officers, Officer French, Detective Arndt, and Sergeant Reichenbach would have had to have misunderstood independently.

Patsy's original story on 12/26 was that JonBenet went to bed in the red turtleneck, and at the same time JR was claiming he'd been misunderstood and contradicting himself about the locked doors (police interview 4/30/97), she was now changing her story and saying JonBenet had gone to bed in the white Gap shirt with the star on it.

So here are at least three things J&P are changing their story on - what JonBenet was wearing, whether she was awake or not, and whether or not the Rs had locked the doors. All very key elements in this case.

So was JonBenet awake or not? I think she was. I think if Patsy really did sing to her, it was when she was awake. I'm not sure if I think JonBenet went to bed that night or not....her bed doesn't really look slept in, but LHP said that white blanket she was wrapped in would have been on her bed, and if it was, then whoever wrapped her in it came and got it off her bed and then remade the bed, which would make it look like it hadn't been slept in. It looks sat on, but not really slept in. I think it's really possible that JB went to bed, being read and sang to, and then got back up when Patsy was trying to finish what she needed to do...and it went downhill from there.

 

[Solace]

He couldn't have. I too have left the other forum. I am tired of it being rear end kicking contest and I am providing the rear. So I guess for now the only ones who will benefit from my humble posts is Websleuths.

Glad to hear that Colorado. I saw some of the replies posted at crimelibrary and they are up to par as what I would expect from them. It is a pro-Ramsey Board and the posters when confronted with hard to dispute reasoning resort to being downright obnoxious and nasty.

 

[sandraladeda]

I have another question for SuperDave (and where the heck is he, by the way?)

Now that Burke is an adult, is there any way a real investigation (as opposed to the non-investigation that is currently underway) could compel him to be interviewed about anything he might remember from that night/morning?

JR and his lawyers would have no power over BR now, as he is an adult, and could agree to an interview.

 

[sandraladeda]

hey Supe! Wake up, we have questions for you!

Another question - why did the FBI never take over this case? Especially as it was being bungled, was there no way they could step in? I truly believe that, had the FBI investigated this, the perp(s) would have been brought to justice.

 

[Jayelles]

My grandmother, raised Lutheran, taught me the first one, with an added stanza. Her version is:

Now I lay me down to sleep,
I pray the Lord my soul to keep.
If I should die before I wake,
I pray my soul the Lord shall take.
This I ask for Jesus's sake.
Jesus, Savior, wash away
All that has been wrong today.
Help me every day to be
Good and gentle, just like thee.

She also told me I didn't need to be afraid at night because angels came and stood around my bed, which harkens to the doll's prayer. Interesting.

How many of us believe that Patsy, after a very long day with getting up early to open presents with the fam and the party at the White's with packing for the trip to Michigan and the Disney cruise would stand there singing to a child who was already asleep?

I don't think she did. I know I wouldn't have. Not that I don't want to pray for my children, but if I've been busy doing stuff all day and need to pack for the next morning in addition to getting up before dawn to make a flight, I'm not going to waste time standing there singing to someone who isn't even going to hear it. I need to get my crap done so I can get some sleep before we have to leave.

I think Patsy probably did sing to JonBenet that night, but I think JonBenet was awake when she did it, if she did. John's original story to police was that he read the kids a book and tucked JB in bed, with Patsy helping. JR said that he had been misunderstood in the police reports of 12/26, and that he hadn't meant he read to the kids before they went to bed, but that they went to bed and he read a book. ST notes this in his book (hb, pg173) and points out that three police officers, Officer French, Detective Arndt, and Sergeant Reichenbach would have had to have misunderstood independently.

Patsy's original story on 12/26 was that JonBenet went to bed in the red turtleneck, and at the same time JR was claiming he'd been misunderstood and contradicting himself about the locked doors (police interview 4/30/97), she was now changing her story and saying JonBenet had gone to bed in the white Gap shirt with the star on it.

So here are at least three things J&P are changing their story on - what JonBenet was wearing, whether she was awake or not, and whether or not the Rs had locked the doors. All very key elements in this case.

So was JonBenet awake or not? I think she was. I think if Patsy really did sing to her, it was when she was awake. I'm not sure if I think JonBenet went to bed that night or not....her bed doesn't really look slept in, but LHP said that white blanket she was wrapped in would have been on her bed, and if it was, then whoever wrapped her in it came and got it off her bed and then remade the bed, which would make it look like it hadn't been slept in. It looks sat on, but not really slept in. I think it's really possible that JB went to bed, being read and sang to, and then got back up when Patsy was trying to finish what she needed to do...and it went downhill from there.

She might have done it if it was something she usually did and had perhaps grown to be a habit. My grandmother always said prayers in bed and was convinced that if she didn't, that something bad would happen to her. I suppose that's a bit like superstition.

 

[Jayelles]

hey Supe! Wake up, we have questions for you!

Another question - why did the FBI never take over this case? Especially as it was being bungled, was there no way they could step in? I truly believe that, had the FBI investigated this, the perp(s) would have been brought to justice.

Apparently not.

• State and Local LE Not Subordinate to FBI.

1. The FBI's own website asserts: "If a crime is committed that is a violation of local, state, and federal laws, does the FBI "take over" the investigation? No. State and local law enforcement agencies are not subordinate to the FBI, and the FBI does not supervise or usurp their investigations. However, through cooperation, the investigative resources of the FBI and state and local agencies often are pooled in a common effort to investigate and solve the cases. In fact, many task forces composed of FBI Special Agents and state and local officers have been formed to locate fugitives and to address serious, recurring crime such as terrorism and street violence."
2. "The FBI's Critical Incident Response Group (CIRG) provides rapid assistance to incidents in a crisis. Through CIRG, expert assistance is available in cases involving the abduction or mysterious disappearance of children, crisis management, hostage negotiation, criminal investigative analysis, and special weapons and tactics. CIRG also assists in the assessment, selection, and training of FBI undercover employees."

 

[Nuisanceposter]

She might have done it if it was something she usually did and had perhaps grown to be a habit. My grandmother always said prayers in bed and was convinced that if she didn't, that something bad would happen to her. I suppose that's a bit like superstition.

Very true. I think religion in general is a form of superstition.

 

[coloradokares]

Very true. I think religion in general is a form of superstition.

Ironically as a steadfast Christian I agree with you. Religion for religions sake has nothing to do with belief.

 

[sandraladeda]

Thanks for the FBI info, Jayelles.

 

[Ames]

I have another question for SuperDave (and where the heck is he, by the way?)

Now that Burke is an adult, is there any way a real investigation (as opposed to the non-investigation that is currently underway) could compel him to be interviewed about anything he might remember from that night/morning?

JR and his lawyers would have no power over BR now, as he is an adult, and could agree to an interview.

I am not Superdave, obviously....but...I have been wondering about this every since Burke turned 18.

 

[coloradokares]

I am not Superdave, obviously....but...I have been wondering about this every since Burke turned 18.

My understanding is the office of special prosecutor could indeed compel anyone to be interviewed ..... What they cannot do is hold Burke criminally liable in anyway for any action or statement as he was only 10 at the time. Only any statements he may or may not have made since acquiring the age to be held liable could become an issue. However here is my personal take on this. Burke will never speak. I think he is headed for a breakdown of somekind eventually if what we suspect is true. How can it possibly be avoided? I think he is going to sail along swimmingly till he marries and has kids of his own.....but someday something will trigger.... and if it hasn't been dealt with ....... It will have to be dealt with. You can't leave something like this unvisited for a lifetime. Actually if Colorado ever does appoint a special prosecutor and things really come out again. That has got to be a hard thing for Burke. Would have to be. Or one would think so. JMHO.