Atlantic City Eastbound Strangler 4 Women Found Dead behind Motel Egg Harbor Twp, Nov 2006

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In recent years, they've went to great lengths to cleanse the boardwalk and Beach area of the homeless and vagrant population. Sure some still sneak under there, I'm sure but it's nothing like it was twenty years ago.
The casinos where all open at the time of the murders ( now it's somewhat of a wasteland of dark empty buildings whereas then it was a bright glowing row of thriving casinos and buildings) so it's safe to say that there would've been security cameras every where up there.
The casinos where usual targets for slip and fall lawsuits in those days so they made sure that every inch was being recorded, and most even recorded the boardwalk area around the back doors.
I would imagine that it would be extremely difficult to commit a murder under that boardwalk or on the beach and then transport the body down the ramp and into a car without being spotted on cameras.
 
Rachel1 said:
In recent years, they've went to great lengths to cleanse the boardwalk and Beach area of the homeless and vagrant population. Sure some still sneak under there, I'm sure but it's nothing like it was twenty years ago.
The casinos where all open at the time of the murders ( now it's somewhat of a wasteland of dark empty buildings whereas then it was a bright glowing row of thriving casinos and buildings) so it's safe to say that there would've been security cameras every where up there.
The casinos where usual targets for slip and fall lawsuits in those days so they made sure that every inch was being recorded, and most even recorded the boardwalk area around the back doors.
I would imagine that it would be extremely difficult to commit a murder under that boardwalk or on the beach and then transport the body down the ramp and into a car without being spotted on cameras.
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Ah, thank you. So that would seem to eliminate that possibility.
 
Gothamgoddess27 said:
I lived in Atlantic City when this happened and worked only 1.5 miles for the burial sight. At the time I was babysitting for a family. On two occasions when I went over to watch their daughter, they had a a man there, who was remodeling their kitchen. I was introduced, but can't recall the name, and only his first had been given. When this went down he was held by police for questioning on the murders, and when he was released, after 24 hours, he skipped town. That made me really think he was guilty. He did not finish their kitchen and made off with the advance. It was not the man featured on The Killing Season. He was maybe in his 40's, lean with Sandy hair and a mustache. He was odd, the kind of guy that might seek the company of a hooker. Everyone in my circle thought he did it, and when the bodies were found at Gilgo, I thought immediately they were connected. Now I'm not so sure. I do remember 10 years prior to that, maybe 1996, a hooker was found dismembered in a dumpster at The Best Western on St. James Place, down the street from The Irish Pub. Not all the pieces were there, and I don't think they found them all. I did here rumor that the room she was killed in was discovered, but I'm not entirely sure that was true. It may be of interesting note, that across the street from the Golden Key, the Bahia Vista owned by Barbra Hutton, Woolworth heiress, used to stand there, until 2002, when it was demolished. That area has always been paluaged with problems. That house and all those motels.
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Hey, do you have more info or can you find any reference anywhere online to the story of the dismembered girl in the dumpster on St James Pl?
 
Cynical 1, I'm no expert by any means but I would honestly say with 95% certainty that each of those casinos have their surrounding areas on camera.
I know for a fact that Trump marina ( I know that the marina was not close to the area we are discussing but I'm just using it as reference because I have first hand knowledge of the security rooms there) had even the marshy area off by the bridge on surveillance cameras. They could see out past the adjacent docks. So if they had that type of technology, I'm sure Taj would've had similar.
 
Rachel1 said:
Cynical 1, I'm no expert by any means but I would honestly say with 95% certainty that each of those casinos have their surrounding areas on camera.
I know for a fact that Trump marina ( I know that the marina was not close to the area we are discussing but I'm just using it as reference because I have first hand knowledge of the security rooms there) had even the marshy area off by the bridge on surveillance cameras. They could see out past the adjacent docks. So if they had that type of technology, I'm sure Taj would've had similar.
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Here's a question that I've found intriguing.

“Mr. Blitz said that one woman, identified by fingerprints and photographs as Kim Raffo, 35, about 5 feet 6 inches tall and 140 pounds, was wearing Capri-style pants and a Hard Rock Cafe tank top and was known to have been living in an Atlantic City rooming house.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/22/nyregion/22slay.html

What I find interesting in that description of her clothing is that there's no mention of a jacket. Mid-November and she goes out for the night wearing only a tank top?

She left the Taj Mahal at 5:00 am in pursuit of drugs. If she's on foot that's a chilly walk back to Pacific Ave. The only reason that I can think of her venturing out in the early morning hours wearing only a tank top and capri-style pants was the possibility that she knew that a car was waiting outside for her.

Perhaps the same car that is mentioned in this link.
“The owner of Pappa Joe’s restaurant said she ate a last meal of eggs, sausage and cheese on a roll at about 2:30 a.m. before walking out onto Tennessee Avenue and getting into a car with out-of-state plates.”
http://nypost.com/2006/11/23/victims-final-moments-eatery-witness-tells-of-230-a-m-meal-roadside-pickup-as-serial-strangler-fear-grips-atlantic-city/

Other reports describe the vehicle as a black Nissan Maxima. If the Taj is so covered by surveillance cameras (and I have no reason to doubt your description) then surely they would have picked out this vehicle either arriving at 2:30 am or departing at 5:00 am.

As always, just my opinion.
 
Yes I agree that the Taj should've definitely been able to see the car on their footage.
The Trump marinas security cameras could capture past their lot into the marsh and then over past the dock into the water. So if they where capable of that, I'd imagine that Taj should've been able to pick up that car that Kim got into.
I also find it odd that she was wearing a tank top. I can totally understand Capri pants because I live here and wear them in November. In fact, I wore a pair today. It was 43 degrees. But a tank top would seem like inappropriate attire for November. The rest of their clothing sounds about normal but that tank top is questionable for November.
 
Rachel1 said:
Yes I agree that the Taj should've definitely been able to see the car on their footage.
The Trump marinas security cameras could capture past their lot into the marsh and then over past the dock into the water. So if they where capable of that, I'd imagine that Taj should've been able to pick up that car that Kim got into.
I also find it odd that she was wearing a tank top. I can totally understand Capri pants because I live here and wear them in November. In fact, I wore a pair today. It was 43 degrees. But a tank top would seem like inappropriate attire for November. The rest of their clothing sounds about normal but that tank top is questionable for November.
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Victim Barbara Breidor's body was found clothed in a jacket so the killer didn't take it from her in that instance.

An alternate theory is that Ms. Raffo walked through the overhead gangway that connects the Taj with Resorts but that would still put her a block or two away from Pacific Ave. The last client of hers, the N. Jersey doctor, was cleared via surveillance cameras in the Taj. So investigators probably know which direction she headed.

The black Nissan makes me wonder if the casinos possibly employed an unofficial vice concierge service for high-rollers.
 
Yes the casinos all have an unofficial concierge service. Any and all things can be bought and brought for the right price ( as long as your filthy rich)

The only thing would be that those girls are usually a different caliber. But you never know, someone could've requested a more rough appearance.
 
Rachel1 said:
Yes the casinos all have an unofficial concierge service. Any and all things can be bought and brought for the right price ( as long as your filthy rich)

The only thing would be that those girls are usually a different caliber. But you never know, someone could've requested a more rough appearance.
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The last two victims were described as being clean cut enough to be able to work the casinos.

Both victims disappeared on days when comped rooms were offered by the casinos. Sun 19th & possibly Wed. 15th.
 
Then you might be onto something there. You know the saying- Different strokes for different folks.
 
Rachel1 said:
Then you might be onto something there. You know the saying- Different strokes for different folks.
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Probably not, no evidence the first two victims were working the casinos. What's that new phrase being used these days, just peering down that rabbit hole.
 
At this point a rabbit hole is better then nothing. Lol!
I do tend to agree that this perp probably wasn't staying in the casino and likely was not associated with any casino concierge. There would've been way too many witnesses if they where the case. Especially because this case was all the buzz back then, someone would've heard about it and called the police saying they saw the girls going with a certain high roller. Besides, I stand by my statement that the girls usually brought in by concierge are usually brought by limo and are the creme de la creme. So even though some of the AC4 where able to sneak thru and work casinos, they still appear to be of a different click so to say.
 
But you never know..... At this point, any ideas are better then nothing. If we keep running through every possibility, maybe something will stick . It can't hurt to explore every possible scenario at this point because there's not much else to go sadly: (
 
OceanAve.jpg

Rachel1 said:
But you never know..... At this point, any ideas are better then nothing. If we keep running through every possibility, maybe something will stick . It can't hurt to explore every possible scenario at this point because there's not much else to go sadly: (
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Probably the most information we have on any of the victims is reports of Ms. Raffo's movements on Sun Nov. 19th 2006. It's been reported, several times now, that she left a client at 5:00 am from the Taj Mahal casino to buy drugs. I noted earlier that it was odd that she was out and about that night without a jacket.

Yet it might not be that odd if her intention was to stay indoors most of the time and only venture outside for short periods. A possible route that she may have taken that night was through the Taj casino floor, through an overpass that connects the Taj with Resorts casino and out a side door into a parking lot on S. Carolina Ave.

From there she would be a short walk from Ocean Avenue. “She had a boyfriend who lived on Ocean Ave., a block up from Tennessee, which a cop called "the worst street in the city.”
http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/news/murder-underbelly-killings-bring-dark-side-light-article-1.606181

I don't think that I'd be stretching it too far to assume that there would be a crack house on Ocean Avenue. If that was the case then that house on Ocean Ave. might be where this killer was hunting these women.

As always, just my opinion.
 
On the off chance that Ms. Raffo was headed to a crack house on Ocean Ave at 5:00 am I thought it might be appropriate to post a description of life in and around a crack house.

  • There will generally be a lot of foot traffic in and out of the place.
  • There will be a lot of junk in and around the place. People get too focused on smoking crack and they ignore cleaning.
  • There are normally a lot of "vultures" - people who are there for no reason other than getting free crack if possible.
  • People will want to get any dealers attention - and keep it. They will be talking and the conversation is very engaging. If the dealer gets bored he may leave and the vultures can't have that.
  • There won't be many fights or incidents that get out of hand, that may get police called and no one wants that.
  • There will be sex - lots of sex. The female vultures have a better way of keeping the dealers attention than talking, many dealers are in it just for the sex.
  • There will be hookers and pimps. They are the ones who bring in the money. This is the place where hookers start out in many cases.
  • There will be a lot of stolen high priced items. Crackheads often don't have money so they come at the dealers with all sorts of things they think he might want. The dealers can often get high priced items for very cheap.
  • There are often many dealers there, they show each other respect and don't try to steal business, but they may be looking for something specific that the others may be able to help with.
  • It is a place where time is lost. People end up staying much longer than they expected because they couldn't keep track of time without missing something.
 
Your correct, there's many crack houses along ocean . That few block radius is definitely not a good place to be. If one was seeking to buy drugs, that would be the place to go.
On maps it looks like a bunch of larger older homes but in person it is much different. Those larger old homes are mostly all converted to rooming houses and tiny apartments. It's a bad neighborhood for sure.
 
Cynical 1, your description of the area is exact. That is exactly how things go over there.
When you drive by, you are sure to see all the things you have mentioned.
 
Continuing to trace Ms. Raffo's last hours, it's recently been reported that her last client, a N. Jersey doctor, made several calls to her after she had departed.

“One day before her death, Raffo was with a customer, a North Jersey doctor, who had a room at the now-shuttered Trump Taj Mahal. At about 5 a.m. on Nov. 19, the law enforcement official said, Raffo told the man she was going out to buy drugs and would return. When she did not, the doctor called her several times, receiving *no answer.”
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2016/11/10_years_later_the_atlantic_city_serial_killer_rem.html

I really am curious to know if there was an agreement between the two that she would return. I mean, she was with him for two and a half hours, more than enough time to complete their transaction.

What were they going to do, watch the sun rise together?

We only have the doctor's word about what transpired that morning. I'm not insinuating that the doctor is the guilty party here: “Using Raffo's cell phone records, investigators tracked down and interviewed the doctor, ultimately clearing him of suspicion because surveillance video from the hotel and casino appeared to confirm his account.”

But on the premise that Ms. Raffo had no intention of returning why then would the doctor have called her several times? Is it possible that Ms. Raffo stole something from him that morning and he was calling to have the item(s) returned?

I'm not judging Ms. Raffo's actions that morning, just exploring all possibilities. After all, Ms. Roberts took a shot to the neck from her pimp on Nov. 8th that landed her in the hospital.

I'm just speculating that if Ms. Raffo did clip something from the doctor what would he have that would be of value in a crack house?
 
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