Atlantic City Eastbound Strangler 4 Women Found Dead behind Motel Egg Harbor Twp, Nov 2006

[rdixon1120]

So, he either talked to the killer in person or talked to him on the phone. Let me guess, he was too afraid to help catch the killer by talking to investigators. Oh, and he sends Kim Raffo to meet with the same guy after Ms. Roberts disappears.

Most likely. And no it wasn't fear of working with local le that would have stopped him... They didn't care about pimps... It's more a street code that they were gonna handle it themselves. He actually thought the first girl took a bus home which happens a lot down there so at that time they weren't really certain girls were being killed... So if this was a steady customer he probably wouldn't have thought twice about sending her out. It wasn't until the bodies were actually all found together that everyone realized that their was someone killing off working girls. Girls change limps... Run away, go home get moved to other cities by other pimps all the time. That's what makes it so hard to know when someone is actually missing. And if they are rogue... Or renegade... Meaning they don't have a pimp and work solely on their own it's harder and even more dangerous unfortunately. It's a very sad and difficult lifestyle most times.... There are more missing missing than we will ever know

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[rdixon1120]

At rdixon1120 - Please don't misinterpret my last post as being directed at you because it's not. You're telling what you know and that's very courageous of you. Thankfully you've survived.

If this pimp had actually gotten to the killer then he wouldn't be saying something like "I probably talked to this SOB". He wouldn't be regretful or melancholy. Just my opinion.

These things were said before the delegation meeting... A rare occurrence when all pimps from the area meet to resolve whatever issues has come up... In this case the murders. There was very little talk about any of it After that meeting. I can't say for certain but I know these men are and we're dangerous, serious and had very long arms so to speak. Their support reached far and wide to many many other states.... That man could have ended up anywhere in very tiny pieces jmo

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[rdixon1120]

I'd suggest that you go speak with Atlantic county prosecutors office or at the very least, acpd , if you have not been formally interviewed already.
Obviously there are lots of people who come out of the woodwork after these types of crimes that claim to have inside knowledge or claim to have been with the victims and such, but if you feel that this man may really have been in contact with the killer, it's best that you go get interviewed.

I believe I was in contact with him... On several occasions...just didn't trigger him for some reason. I have attempted to pass on the info I do remember which is extensive and unfortunately have been met with a very lukewarm reception. I honestly think they don't want it brought up. They are trying to change the face of Atlantic City and as I've said before... We were being harassed on night in 2007 by some local vice cops and feeling my oats a little and what not said... Don't you have a serial killer to catch... Isn't that a problem bigger than this you should be focused on and a cop looked me square in the face and said.... We don't see him as a problem.. We see him as a solution to a problem! There are some good decent and genuine cops but most of them.... Nah. We watched a pimp snack the crap out of a girl right in the sidewalk outside Trump plaza and a cop was RIGHT THERE in his patrol car... He looked over.. Chuckled and looked the other way. It's just how it was at that time.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[sakura.shinra]

You bring up a few interesting points which have been speculated upon for quite awhile. The “facing east” aspect is a point of contention. Some believe it was the tide that positioned them to face east while others think it was intentional.

Hi Cynical, I get the impression that you believe the bodies were staged intentionally, not moved by the tide and I agree for a couple of reasons. The first being purely practical, in that the water level in the drainage ditch, from all I've read, doesn't seem to get high enough to move that much dead weight more than a few feet at most. I don't know how wide the ditch is, but I have trouble believing that four bodies "just happened" to get picked up by the tide, possibly turned as much as 180 degrees to face east, and turned face down as well.

Logistically, thinking about how one would go about repeating this pattern led me to believe that the individual responsible for placing them there most likely had to step directly into the drainage ditch to accomplish the same staging for four different bodies.

Another thing that occured to me however, when you mentioned the tide, was to wonder if the killer had originally staged the bodies all next to each other and the tide moved them apart. I consider that pretty unlikely for the same reasons I mentioned before, but it's good to consider all possibilities.

Others, like yourself, are probably better qualified than me to comment on this guys motivation. Yet I do believe he was on a mission to kill as many sex workers as possible and that the bodies were staged to reflect the contempt he had for these unfortunate women.

I agree that this guy is likely to be a mission oriented killer, which makes Eldred Burchell, a.k.a the "River man," so interesting, because it's not only a nod to Gary Ridgeway, the Green River killer, it's also a nod to Ted Bundy because that was Bundy's nickname for Ridgeway when he was helping authorities to try and catch the dude. Gary Ridgeway was very religious and had this love/hate relationship with prostitutes where he blamed them for his inability to keep himself from using their services. What if our killer has the same personal conflict going on? Although in this case, as noted by profiler John Kelly, the killer appears not to be having sex with the victims, perhaps just the desire to have sex with them is enough to trigger his need to kill?

I don't know if Burchell is the killer, there has been no serious evidence connecting him to the AC4, but that's true of a lot of serial killers, they're good at what they do and that's why they're so difficult to catch.

 

[rdixon1120]

FBI Special Agent Dan Garrabrant works the AC area as well.

I think perhaps I should try to contact him. Thank you

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[rdixon1120]

Rdixon, maybe you should try the FBI guy that c1 suggested as I know you said the several other agencies you contacted were not very interested.

Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk

I absolutely am going to. I have alot more info that would answer a lot if the questions about no sex the foot fetish and why they all faced east... But I really need to find a LE OFFICIAL that will listen and care before I feel OK putting more out here. I actually believe I even know when and how the foot fetish came about... Because of what this John told me and his love/hate relationship with working girls... I want to say more but I want to be careful not to compromise any new investigation as well

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[rdixon1120]

I'm sorry to hear about your experience.

Sometime in mid-November, a street hustler named Dante said he went clothes shopping with Tracy Roberts. She bought the outfit she was wearing when her body was found.

"She said, 'I'll be back in like a hour,'" Dante remembers. "She never came back."
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/beyond-the-boardwalk/4/

Curious what that one hour errand might be.

Thank you...

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[cynical_1]

I think perhaps I should try to contact him. Thank you

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

You're quite welcome. Just in case you have any reservations:
http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/news/breaking/six-sex-trafficking-victims-recovered-in-atlantic-county-as-part/article_f1b76594-728a-11e5-93f0-d37485cd4156.html

He's one of the good guys.

 

[cynical_1]

Hi Cynical, I get the impression that you believe the bodies were staged intentionally, not moved by the tide and I agree for a couple of reasons. The first being purely practical, in that the water level in the drainage ditch, from all I've read, doesn't seem to get high enough to move that much dead weight more than a few feet at most. I don't know how wide the ditch is, but I have trouble believing that four bodies "just happened" to get picked up by the tide, possibly turned as much as 180 degrees to face east, and turned face down as well.

The ditch has been described as several inches deep. It's not very wide, perhaps 8-10 yards. The last victim, Kim Raffo, has a time frame of 33 hrs from the time she was last seen to the time her body was discovered. I just tend to doubt that the tide would move her body that much in that time frame.

Another thing that occured to me however, when you mentioned the tide, was to wonder if the killer had originally staged the bodies all next to each other and the tide moved them apart. I consider that pretty unlikely for the same reasons I mentioned before, but it's good to consider all possibilities.

Ms. Raffo's body and Tracy Ann Robert's body were a considerable distance from the other two in the middle. That would mean the tide moved one to the east and one to the west. I'm no expert on tides but that seems unlikely to me.

What does seem likely is that Ms. Raffo's body was directly behind The Golden Key which may mean she was placed there in the early morning hours and he used the motel as cover from the BHP.

 

[sakura.shinra]

The ditch has been described as several inches deep. It's not very wide, perhaps 8-10 yards. The last victim, Kim Raffo, has a time frame of 33 hrs from the time she was last seen to the time her body was discovered. I just tend to doubt that the tide would move her body that much in that time frame.

It would take a strong tide to shift a human body, or turn a body over, in a ditch that shallow, and a tide high enough to shift the bodies would surely have breached the banks of the ditch. I found photographs of the ditch close up and in the top one you can clearly see what looks like a long piece of wood resting on the bottom, it's not that deep at all by the looks of it.

More interestingly however, in the article I got these pics from, I found this....

"On November 20, 2006 the bodies of four murdered women were discovered propped up in this drainage ditch located between two highways leading into Atlantic City, N.J. All of the women were posed facing east."

This article is from the Daily Mail, so it goes without saying that anything they print has to be approached with bag of salt in hand, but I find the line about the women being propped up to be curious. What do they mean by "propped up"? Is that just a strange turn of phrase on the part of the journalist? Curiouser still is this line from further down in the same article....

"He can look across the bay, at a defined landmark, where these women were posed into subservient positions' says criminal profiler John Kelly. The way he took the women and propped them up in the ditch, the way he posed the women, spaced them out."

The same terminology again, this time used by a professional profiler.

I think that everything this killer does is carefully planned and executed and that all of it has a deep meaning to him. This is his narrative, his stage, his story that he is telling to the rest of the world.

Here's the link to the full article from the Daily Mail http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...itutes-left-face-barefoot-drainage-ditch.html

 

[LR1]

Can we discount the possibility that this was something other than a set of serial sexual homicides? Like for instance a turf cleansing by some murdering pimps or tricks. Or a set of killings to send a message. Or something out of left field like a set to show disapproval at the state of blight on that strip by magnifying it with these murders. The frequency of the murders with little to no effort to conceal what was done combined with no obvious sexual component... I'm not putting any significance into the way there heads were pointing. The stolen shoes could suggest paraphilic behavior but it could also be as simple as dude worried about leaving some fibers from his floorboard.

 

[sakura.shinra]

Can we discount the possibility that this was something other than a set of serial sexual homicides? Like for instance a turf cleansing by some murdering pimps or tricks. Or a set of killings to send a message.

No, I don't think we should discount the possibilities of these murders being something other than sexual serial murders. While I believe strongly that these are serial sexual homicides, the placement and staging of the women's bodies could also fit with some of the scenarios you mentioned above. Rivalry between pimps can be very violent and it's not unreasonable that a pimp, or even a gang running a prostitution racket, might engage in this kind of elaborate staging to send a message to others. It would be irresponsible to completely discount these possibilities entirely, that kind of tunnel vision is not useful IMHO.

 

[euggrie]

Can we discount the possibility that this was something other than a set of serial sexual homicides? Like for instance a turf cleansing by some murdering pimps or tricks. Or a set of killings to send a message. Or something out of left field like a set to show disapproval at the state of blight on that strip by magnifying it with these murders. The frequency of the murders with little to no effort to conceal what was done combined with no obvious sexual component... I'm not putting any significance into the way there heads were pointing. The stolen shoes could suggest paraphilic behavior but it could also be as simple as dude worried about leaving some fibers from his floorboard.

I this is a good point. In my opinion they were not killed in a date (at least not all, but this will mean a different method for each and that's not very SK like, I guess).
If Kim Raffo was already in a date and told the guy she was coming back, is it possible that she ran to have a quick date with someone else, at 5 in the morning?
Also, because they were strictly controlled by their pimp, maybe the SK kidnapped her when he had the change, and that would explain the timing because she was supposed to be on a date.
I think if the killer had a date with them (something that the pimp can track) and then they disappeared, someone was going to connect him to the disappearance, eventually. But maybe that's the reason why he dumped all the bodies together (and then hit the road maybe?) but I still have doubts about his encounter with Kim Raffo...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[cynical_1]

More interestingly however, in the article I got these pics from, I found this....

"On November 20, 2006 the bodies of four murdered women were discovered propped up in this drainage ditch located between two highways leading into Atlantic City, N.J. All of the women were posed facing east."

This article is from the Daily Mail, so it goes without saying that anything they print has to be approached with bag of salt in hand, but I find the line about the women being propped up to be curious. What do they mean by "propped up"? Is that just a strange turn of phrase on the part of the journalist? Curiouser still is this line from further down in the same article....

"He can look across the bay, at a defined landmark, where these women were posed into subservient positions' says criminal profiler John Kelly. The way he took the women and propped them up in the ditch, the way he posed the women, spaced them out."

The same terminology again, this time used by a professional profiler.

I think that everything this killer does is carefully planned and executed and that all of it has a deep meaning to him. This is his narrative, his stage, his story that he is telling to the rest of the world.

Here's the link to the full article from the Daily Mail http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...itutes-left-face-barefoot-drainage-ditch.html

Concerning the position of the bodies when they were found I like to refer to the one and only press conference the acting Atlantic County prosecutor, Jeffrey S. Blitz, gave at the time.

'Mr. Blitz said, “Some of the decomposition is in the face because of the way they were in the water.”'

“They were laying in the drainage ditch with head facing east, down,” he said. “Whether that’s a coincidence or not, it is what it is.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/22/nyregion/22slay.html

Personally, I've come to believe that these murders are the very definition of a Mission Serial Killer. The no shoes, clothed and facing east are the signature.

As always, just my opinion.

 

[Rachel1]

Concerning the position of the bodies when they were found I like to refer to the one and only press conference the acting Atlantic County prosecutor, Jeffrey S. Blitz, gave at the time.

'Mr. Blitz said, “Some of the decomposition is in the face because of the way they were in the water.”'

“They were laying in the drainage ditch with head facing east, down,” he said. “Whether that’s a coincidence or not, it is what it is.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/22/nyregion/22slay.html

Personally, I've come to believe that these murders are the very definition of a Mission Serial Killer. The no shoes, clothed and facing east are the signature.

As always, just my opinion.

I have to agree with this. And must add in, that it's so super frustrating that he only gave one press release on this case.
Even before 2006, I always said that the government here tries to keep crime hidden away because they don't want to scare off tourism. Tourism is what keeps this area afloat ( not that we're even afloat at this point lol!) So I've always felt like they try really hard to downplay what happens here.

 

[Rachel1]

If we go back to the theory that the killer is a Muslim male, could there be a connection with why the heads where facing east?

 

[Skully]

I think we got stuck on the "Facing East" comment. If he had said the bodies were face down and the heads were turned to the right, would we think this was something to do with religion? IDK, but something else that occurred to me was, when a body decomposes, it fills with gases. So if the bodies were face up, could they have flipped just from the gases filling the body? Then we have a different direction for the heads to be facing if they were face up to begin with, they would be in West direction instead of East, but still turned to the right. Does that make sense?

 

[Skully]

I also wonder if they were bound in any way? Did he ties the hands or feet? It doesn't say in any articles. If not, were the arms out stretched in the water?

 

[sakura.shinra]

Personally, I've come to believe that these murders are the very definition of a Mission Serial Killer. The no shoes, clothed and facing east are the signature. As always, just my opinion.

I agree, this case fits the profile of a mission-oriented killer. I personally believe there's a religious element to this case and that it shows in the positioning of the bodies but I also don't want to dismiss out of hand other theories like those LR1 put forward.

Even before 2006, I always said that the government here tries to keep crime hidden away because they don't want to scare off tourism. Tourism is what keeps this area afloat ( not that we're even afloat at this point lol!) So I've always felt like they try really hard to downplay what happens here.

I hear ya! I am in New Zealand and our government is the same with anything that might possibly diminish the "Clean, green Middle Earth" nonsense that all those tourism brochures promise. I work in mental health and addiction services and the city I live in has a huge problem with meth and the gangs that manufacture and sell it, but nobody talks about it because it might scare the tourists away, and if we had a serial killer murdering sex workers, probably nobody would be talking about that either.

 

[cynical_1]

For those who suspect that the heads facing east aspect of this case has religious overtones it might be of interest to note that in 2006 the Islamic holiday of Ramadan started on Sat. September 23rd and lasted until Sun. October 22nd.

The first two victims went missing during this time.

It's not unheard of for sex workers to be targeted by Islamic Extremism. In Jan. 2014 twenty nine women and two men were killed inside a brothel in Baghdad.

"This is the fate of any prostitution," read an inscription on the front door of one of the raided buildings.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/10966533/Gunmen-kill-29-women-in-attack-on-Baghdad-brothel.html