Attacks Foiled on West Coast-More Info Today

Nova said:
If this is President is talking, he's lying. Where have you been?

Now it may be that attacks were foiled. If so, good. But even if true, that doesn't prove we have to destroy democratic process to foil attacks.
There was enough information in the intelligence pipelines of our National Security organizations (FBI, CIA, and NSA) to prevent 9/11. The problem wasn't in the lack of ability, of these organizations, to legally wiretap anyone; the problem was in the lack of cooperation, and sharing of information, among our intelligence organizations. There were individuals in each of the organizations, who had valuable intelligence with respect to the Al Qaeda threat, who were trying to get the attention of their superiors to alert them to the evergrowing threat in advance of the attack, but it seems that there wasn't anyone at the top listening to what they were saying.

So that was, and is, the problem; allowing our intelligence organizations to grow into independent empires, in competition with one another, rather than working together for our common good.

9/11 was our wake-up call with respect to those organizations, and their lack of sharing intelligence. It wasn't about the need to allow the Office Of The President to have unbridled power with respect to wiretapping, and for the Office Of The President, to overstep the foundations of laws that were put in place to prevent an even greater threat to the American people; the loss of our freedoms.
 
FISA: FOREIGN INTELLIGENCE SURVEILLANCE

Section 1802. Electronic surveillance authorization without court order; certification by Attorney General; reports to Congressional committees; transmittal under seal; duties and compensation of communication common carrier; applications; jurisdiction of court

(a)(1) Notwithstanding any other law, the President, through the
Attorney General, may authorize electronic surveillance without a
court order under this subchapter to acquire foreign intelligence
information for periods of up to one year if the Attorney General
certifies in writing under oath that -
(A) the electronic surveillance is solely directed at -
(i) the acquisition of the contents of communications
transmitted by means of communications used exclusively between
or among foreign powers, as defined in section 1801(a)(1), (2),
or (3) of this title; or
(ii) the acquisition of technical intelligence, other than
the spoken communications of individuals, from property or
premises under the open and exclusive control of a foreign
power, as defined in section 1801(a)(1), (2), or (3) of this
title;
(B) there is no substantial likelihood that the surveillance
will acquire the contents of any communication to which a United
States person is a party; and
(C) the proposed minimization procedures with respect to such
surveillance meet the definition of minimization procedures under
section 1801(h) of this title; and
if the Attorney General reports such minimization procedures and
any changes thereto to the House Permanent Select Committee on
Intelligence and the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence at
least thirty days prior to their effective date, unless the
Attorney General determines immediate action is required and
notifies the committees immediately of such minimization procedures
and the reason for their becoming effective immediately.

More: http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/casecode/uscodes/50/chapters/36/subchapters/i/sections/section_1802.html
 
Sections 1801, Definitions:

(a) ''Foreign power'' means -
(1) a foreign government or any component thereof, whether or
not recognized by the United States;
(2) a faction of a foreign nation or nations, not
substantially composed of United States persons;
(3) an entity that is openly acknowledged by a foreign
government or governments to be directed and controlled by such
foreign government or governments;
(4) a group engaged in international terrorism or activities
in preparation therefor;
(5) a foreign-based political organization, not substantially
composed of United States persons; or
(6) an entity that is directed and controlled by a foreign
government or governments.
... (2) any person who -...
(C) knowingly engages in sabotage or international
terrorism, or activities that are in preparation therefor,
for or on behalf of a foreign power;
(D) knowingly enters the United States under a false or
fraudulent identity for or on behalf of a foreign power or,
while in the United States, knowingly assumes a false or
fraudulent identity for or on behalf of a foreign power; or
(E) knowingly aids or abets any person in the conduct of
activities described in subparagraph (A), (B), or (C) or
knowingly conspires with any person to engage in activities
described in subparagraph (A), (B), or (C).
(c) ''International terrorism'' means activities that -
(1) involve violent acts or acts dangerous to human life that
are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of
any State, or that would be a criminal violation if committed
within the jurisdiction of the United States or any State;
(2) appear to be intended -
(A) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
(B) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation
or coercion; or
(C) to affect the conduct of a government by assassination
or kidnapping; and
(3) occur totally outside the United States, or transcend
national boundaries in terms of the means by which they are
accomplished, the persons they appear intended to coerce or
intimidate, or the locale in which their perpetrators operate
or seek asylum.
(d) ''Sabotage'' means activities that involve a violation of
chapter 105 of title 18, or that would involve such a violation
if committed against the United States.
(e) ''Foreign intelligence information'' means -
(1) information that relates to, and if concerning a United
States person is necessary to, the ability of the United States
to protect against -
(A) actual or potential attack or other grave hostile acts
of a foreign power or an agent of a foreign power;
(B) sabotage or international terrorism by a foreign power
or an agent of a foreign power; or
(C) clandestine intelligence activities by an intelligence
service or network of a foreign power or by an agent of a
foreign power; or
(2) information with respect to a foreign power or foreign
territory that relates to, and if concerning a United States
person is necessary to -
(A) the national defense or the security of the United
States; or
(B) the conduct of the foreign affairs of the United
States.
(f) ''Electronic surveillance'' means -
(1) the acquisition by an electronic, mechanical, or other
surveillance device of the contents of any wire or radio
communication sent by or intended to be received by a
particular, known United States person who is in the United
States, if the contents are acquired by intentionally targeting
that United States person, under circumstances in which a
person has a reasonable expectation of privacy and a warrant
would be required for law enforcement purposes;
(2) the acquisition by an electronic, mechanical, or other
surveillance device of the contents of any wire communication
to or from a person in the United States, without the consent
of any party thereto, if such acquisition occurs in the United
States, but does not include the acquisition of those
communications of computer trespassers that would be
permissible under section 2511(2)(i) of title 18;
(3) the intentional acquisition by an electronic, mechanical,
or other surveillance device of the contents of any radio
communication, under circumstances in which a person has a
reasonable expectation of privacy and a warrant would be
required for law enforcement purposes, and if both the sender
and all intended recipients are located within the United
States; or
(4) the installation or use of an electronic, mechanical, or
other surveillance device in the United States for monitoring
to acquire information, other than from a wire or radio
communication, under circumstances in which a person has a
reasonable expectation of privacy and a warrant would be
required for law enforcement purposes.
(g) ''Attorney General'' means the Attorney General of the
United States (or Acting Attorney General) or the Deputy Attorney
General.
(h) ''Minimization procedures'', with respect to electronic
surveillance, means -
(1) specific procedures, which shall be adopted by the
Attorney General, that are reasonably designed in light of the
purpose and technique of the particular surveillance, to
minimize the acquisition and retention, and prohibit the
dissemination, of nonpublicly available information concerning
unconsenting United States persons consistent with the need of
the United States to obtain, produce, and disseminate foreign
intelligence information;
(2) procedures that require that nonpublicly available
information, which is not foreign intelligence information, as
defined in subsection (e)(1) of this section, shall not be
disseminated in a manner that identifies any United States
person, without such person's consent, unless such person's
identity is necessary to understand foreign intelligence
information or assess its importance;
(3) notwithstanding paragraphs (1) and (2), procedures that
allow for the retention and dissemination of information that
is evidence of a crime which has been, is being, or is about to
be committed and that is to be retained or disseminated for law
enforcement purposes; and
(4) notwithstanding paragraphs (1), (2), and (3), with
respect to any electronic surveillance approved pursuant to
section 1802(a) of this title, procedures that require that no
contents of any communication to which a United States person
is a party shall be disclosed, disseminated, or used for any
purpose or retained for longer than 72 hours unless a court
order under section 1805 of this title is obtained or unless
the Attorney General determines that the information indicates
a threat of death or serious bodily harm to any person.
(i) ''United States person'' means a citizen of the United
States, an alien lawfully admitted for permanent residence (as
defined in section 1101(a)(20) of title 8), an unincorporated
association a substantial number of members of which are citizens
of the United States or aliens lawfully admitted for permanent
residence, or a corporation which is incorporated in the United
States, but does not include a corporation or an association
which is a foreign power, as defined in subsection (a)(1), (2),
or (3) of this section.
(j) ''United States'', when used in a geographic sense, means
all areas under the territorial sovereignty of the United States
and the Trust Territory of the Pacific Islands.
(k) ''Aggrieved person'' means a person who is the target of an
electronic surveillance or any other person whose communications
or activities were subject to electronic surveillance.
(l) ''Wire communication'' means any communication while it is
being carried by a wire, cable, or other like connection
furnished or operated by any person engaged as a common carrier
in providing or operating such facilities for the transmission of
interstate or foreign communications.
(m) ''Person'' means any individual, including any officer or
employee of the Federal Government, or any group, entity,
association, corporation, or foreign power.
(n) ''Contents'', when used with respect to a communication,
includes any information concerning the identity of the parties
to such communication or the existence, substance, purport, or
meaning of that communication.
(o) ''State'' means any State of the United States, the
District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, the Trust
Territory of the Pacific Islands, and any territory or possession
of the United States.

More: http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/casecode/uscodes/50/chapters/36/subchapters/i/sections/section_1801.html
 
Uh oh, three liberals just wet themselves and one dropped dead from factual overload! :D

Happy Friday to all....

Cal
 
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

calus_3 said:
Uh oh, three liberals just wet themselves and one dropped dead from factual overload! :D

Happy Friday to all....

Cal



may he/she rest in peace.
 
I agree with ya! If people have nothing to hide then why does it bother them so much about the wiretapping? If it means my kids school won't be blown up or the White House or Sears Tower won't be blown up then by all means listen away, do what ya have to do!!



IdahoMom said:
Well, Bush is staying on task as best he can.

He is being undermined left and right by the very people that will cry "Why didn't you do more" if/when their cities are hit or loved ones killed.

It is a matter of time before some sleeper cell slips through the cracks and it will be 9/11 all over again....imo, of course.
 
Ya gotta just love it. One of today's AOL polls:

Whose account of Bush and Abramoff's ties seems more believable?

Jack Abramoff's 68%
President Bush's 22%
Not sure 10%
Total Votes: 93,820
 
Reid Aided Abramoff Clients, Records Show

WASHINGTON (Feb. 10) - Senate Democratic Leader Harry Reid wrote at least four letters helpful to Indian tribes represented by Jack Abramoff, and the senator's staff regularly had contact with the disgraced lobbyist's team about legislation affecting other clients.

The activities - detailed in billing records and correspondence obtained by The Associated Press - are far more extensive than previously disclosed. They occurred over three years as Reid collected nearly $68,000 in donations from Abramoff 's firm, lobbying partners and clients.

Reid's office acknowledged Thursday having "routine contacts" with Abramoff 's lobbying partners and intervening on some government matters - such as blocking some tribal casinos - in ways Abramoff 's clients might have deemed helpful. But it said none of his actions were affected by donations or done for Abramoff .

"All the actions that Senator Reid took were consistent with his long-held beliefs, such as not letting tribal casinos expand beyond reservations, and were taken to defend the interests of Nevada constituents," spokesman Jim Manley said.

Reid, D-Nev., has led the Democratic Party's attacks portraying Abramoff 's lobbying and fundraising as a Republican scandal.

But Abramoff 's records show his lobbying partners billed for nearly two dozen phone contacts or meetings with Reid's office in 2001 alone.


More: http://news.aol.com/topnews/articles?id=n20060210032909990004
 
Buzzm1 said:
Ya gotta just love it. One of today's AOL polls:

Whose account of Bush and Abramoff's ties seems more believable?

Jack Abramoff's 68%
President Bush's 22%
Not sure 10%
Total Votes: 93,820

Oh Buzz, I don't love it.

I'm actually very disheartened in the state of affairs with both sides. I guess I'm a pollyanna (or WANT to be) and want to believe that my government from the top down, will have the People's best interests within their focus. And I hate the fingerpointing. Both sides have enough baggage and shouldn't be throwing stones. I WANT to have faith in my elected officials. I want to believe my President, I want to believe my Congressmen, etc. They just, at times, happen to be making it verrrrrry difficult to have that faith in them.

Okay, so many are so hateful and upset with the current administration, maybe the Dem's will win the WH back in '08. And, then it will be the Rep's who get to sit on the sidelines and make all kinds of swipes against the Dem's. Woohoo, we get to continue this cycle. Nope, I don't have all the answers, I'm actually pretty damn naive when it comes to high level politics. I'm more familiar down at the lower levels (city, county, state). Oh well, off my Pollyanna soapbox. I need a drink. :slap: (Does Pollyanna ever have a drink, other than a virgin strawberry margarita?!)
 

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