August 26th 2016 Motions Filed

[BigCityAccountant]

You're the greatest!❤❤

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Your welcome!!

So, what do you think??

 

[missy1974]

Um...Missy???

I don't think the cardboard was a reflection..Look at the pic above. The off brown color is the way that tape player was made. I had forgotten mine looked the same way in my 1994 Toyota....

I think we are looking at the same thing, but not sure. I have taken the pic I posted and put a yellow square around the area that I think the flash reflected and makes it look white. As a comparison, look at the ignition (the red box) in the same picture because of the different angle, the flash is making the ignition look white now too, but it's not and you can see in the other photo's that it is actually gray like the rest of the dash.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

I think we are looking at the same thing, but not sure. I have taken the pic I posted and put a yellow square around the area that I think the flash reflected and makes it look white. As a comparison, look at the ignition (the red box) in the same picture because of the different angle, the flash is making the ignition look white now too, but it's not and you can see in the other photo's that it is actually gray like the rest of the dash.

.
OHHH...well then, we are talking apples and oranges then....I thought you were referring to the brown area just to the right of there, below the cassette deck, which is where the radio station would display. Yes, there is a reflection there where you put the yellow box. I still don't think the cardboard is a reflection though....we already know from the 2 different pictures the interior of the RAV 4 has been altered, so it is possible they picked up a piece of cardboad and threw it inside the vehicle.

Why that is important, is the blood flakes...were the blood flakes on the cardboard and fall off???
...and what about the bloody rag?? Could it be possible SA hurt his finger out in the pit area days earlier and used the bloody rag to wrap around his finger and then discarded it and it was picked up by someone, water or some other chemical added to it create the blood stains?

So, here is a scenario to consider. If SA hurt his finger in the pit, lets say crushing the car the week earlier. Do we know where he hurt his finger??? I don't recall. He picks up a rag he's found in the pit and wraps his finger, holds it on there until it stops, then just discards it in the pit. Lets say when they do the testing on the RAV 4, they find grease, oil, transmission fluid, etc. mixed in with the blood..would that not indicate the blood was planted?

Of course, all just MHO.

 

[missy1974]

.
OHHH...well then, we are talking apples and oranges then....I thought you were referring to the brown area just to the right of there, below the cassette deck, which is where the radio station would display. Yes, there is a reflection there where you put the yellow box. I still don't think the cardboard is a reflection though....we already know from the 2 different pictures the interior of the RAV 4 has been altered, so it is possible they picked up a piece of cardboad and threw it inside the vehicle.

Why that is important, is the blood flakes...were the blood flakes on the cardboard and fall off???
...and what about the bloody rag?? Could it be possible SA hurt his finger out in the pit area days earlier and used the bloody rag to wrap around his finger and then discarded it and it was picked up by someone, water or some other chemical added to it create the blood stains?

So, here is a scenario to consider. If SA hurt his finger in the pit, lets say crushing the car the week earlier. Do we know where he hurt his finger??? I don't recall. He picks up a rag he's found in the pit and wraps his finger, holds it on there until it stops, then just discards it in the pit. Lets say when they do the testing on the RAV 4, they find grease, oil, transmission fluid, etc. mixed in with the blood..would that not indicate the blood was planted?

Of course, all just MHO.

I'm still not seeing any cardboard lol

I have thought about the bloody rag. My problem with that theory is.... how would they know that it was SA's blood on that rag before using it to plant blood? It could have been another Avery, it could have been a customer, just too many possibilities in a salvage yard IMO If it was, I think there is a possibility of finding other fluids and even fibres from the rag in the samples.

Somewhere, but I can't remember where, it was said that the cut had something to do with the tin roof for the cabin.

With all that we know, there is so much we don't know still *sigh*

 

[IDK]

So, I'm sure this has been posted before, but reviewing the photos BCA posted (thank-you!) really brought it home to me. The blood smeared near the ignition was obviously from a liquid state, so either fresh or planted from the vial (or?).

Flakes of blood are dried pieces of blood. Blood that has been sitting around for awhile and dried out. So wouldn't that show they came from another source than the smear near the ignition? If it was blood that splattered at the time the smear was left, wouldn't it have been absorbed into whatever surface it fell on, and then could not be considered a "flake"?

I don't know if I'm being clear or not, but how could you have both "fresh" (from the ignition) and dried flakes (old) left by the same source at the same time?

 

[dexter75]

So, I'm sure this has been posted before, but reviewing the photos BCA posted (thank-you!) really brought it home to me. The blood smeared near the ignition was obviously from a liquid state, so either fresh or planted from the vial (or?).

Flakes of blood are dried pieces of blood. Blood that has been sitting around for awhile and dried out. So wouldn't that show they came from another source than the smear near the ignition? If it was blood that splattered at the time the smear was left, wouldn't it have been absorbed into whatever surface it fell on, and then could not be considered a "flake"?

I don't know if I'm being clear or not, but how could you have both "fresh" (from the ignition) and dried flakes (old) left by the same source at the same time?

Crystal clear❤😉
And good question!

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[missy1974]

I don't know if I'm being clear or not, but how could you have both "fresh" (from the ignition) and dried flakes (old) left by the same source at the same time?

This is exactly what I have been thinking! From what I can gather, these flakes weren't scraped off of anything, and if they were on the floor by the console, why didn't they absorb into the carpet? If they were actually on the console, which I don't think they were, they would have swabbed it like the ignition blood stain. If it was in the carpet, they should have cut it out like they did the passenger (or drivers?) seat spot. I just don't know how someone can leave an 'unnatural' amount of blood drops, yet there were "flakes" of blood.

I can't help but think of that vial, it had dried blood on the top of it by the 'hole'. If someone took off the top, would those flakes pop off? what about around the top of the vial if it had been opened previously? I'm not even saying that it would have to necessarily be the vial we know about, I still have questions about other blood that they have, or correction, may have taken from him over the years. Also, when googling about 'flakes of blood' (please someone destroy my computer if something happens to my hubby LOL), I was reminded about the spot of blood they photographed in the bathroom, the spot that was missing the middle of it, but still had the ring of blood.

Here is another thing about that cut on SA that I have questions about. How come LE didn't ask him about it when they were questioning or saw him on the 4th, 5th, 6th? They asked Brendan about a scratch. SA's cut would have been noticeable if it was there, we could see it in a video a few days later, I think it was an NBC news video and they released the raw footage a few months back.

Anyway, I have a day off of work, I'm busy cleaning my cupboards out and I have too much time to think about this today :biggrin:

 

[IDK]

This is exactly what I have been thinking! From what I can gather, these flakes weren't scraped off of anything, and if they were on the floor by the console, why didn't they absorb into the carpet? If they were actually on the console, which I don't think they were, they would have swabbed it like the ignition blood stain. If it was in the carpet, they should have cut it out like they did the passenger (or drivers?) seat spot. I just don't know how someone can leave an 'unnatural' amount of blood drops, yet there were "flakes" of blood.

I can't help but think of that vial, it had dried blood on the top of it by the 'hole'. If someone took off the top, would those flakes pop off? what about around the top of the vial if it had been opened previously? I'm not even saying that it would have to necessarily be the vial we know about, I still have questions about other blood that they have, or correction, may have taken from him over the years. Also, when googling about 'flakes of blood' (please someone destroy my computer if something happens to my hubby LOL), I was reminded about the spot of blood they photographed in the bathroom, the spot that was missing the middle of it, but still had the ring of blood.

Here is another thing about that cut on SA that I have questions about. How come LE didn't ask him about it when they were questioning or saw him on the 4th, 5th, 6th? They asked Brendan about a scratch. SA's cut would have been noticeable if it was there, we could see it in a video a few days later, I think it was an NBC news video and they released the raw footage a few months back.

Anyway, I have a day off of work, I'm busy cleaning my cupboards out and I have too much time to think about this today :biggrin:

Glad you have some extra time today to get things done! I totally agree with what you posted about blood flaking off from the vial. Another possibility: if I were going to plant blood, I would first take some out of the original vial using a syringe and transport it that way. It would be easy for any blood on the outside of the syringe to dry during transport. And then flake off later. Or, if the "planter" was wearing gloves that got blood on them during the transfer process, could it then dry and flake off later? Aargh, just wish we knew more...

I also agree with you about SA's cuts. Wouldn't that be part of LE's gathering evidence-taking photos of apparent scratches/injuries on potential suspects? Oh wait, they didn't even bother to photograph the bones they found, so I'm sure a few cuts or scratches would seem insignificant to them. Also, didn't one of TH's other contacts show up with scratches/injuries? Very suspicious, IMO.

 

[Safeguard]

Iirc... SA said he got the cut when he was at the cabin in crivitz...loading tin sheet metal onto a flatbed. He was helping roof a chicken enclosure...

Screen grab of SA's cut.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7ymhHbxUJQ3NW9vdzVib2w4M2c/view

I've heard speculation that the planted blood came from SA's car, that they had in the lab, right along with the RAV 4. There was blood in his car, from his cut, on the steering wheel and other places...That would make more sense to me, with regards to flakes, then say, a rag...

 

[IDK]

Iirc... SA said he got the cut when he was at the cabin in crivitz...loading tin sheet metal onto a flatbed. He was helping roof a chicken enclosure...

Screen grab of SA's cut.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7ymhHbxUJQ3NW9vdzVib2w4M2c/view

I've heard speculation that the planted blood came from SA's car, that they had in the lab, right along with the RAV 4. There was blood in his car, from his cut, on the steering wheel and other places...That would make more sense to me, with regards to flakes, then say, a rag...

Thanks for posting the photo. Looks like it was pretty deep. Very interesting to hear about the multiple sites of SA's blood in his car.

 

[dexter75]

This is exactly what I have been thinking! From what I can gather, these flakes weren't scraped off of anything, and if they were on the floor by the console, why didn't they absorb into the carpet? If they were actually on the console, which I don't think they were, they would have swabbed it like the ignition blood stain. If it was in the carpet, they should have cut it out like they did the passenger (or drivers?) seat spot. I just don't know how someone can leave an 'unnatural' amount of blood drops, yet there were "flakes" of blood.

I can't help but think of that vial, it had dried blood on the top of it by the 'hole'. If someone took off the top, would those flakes pop off? what about around the top of the vial if it had been opened previously? I'm not even saying that it would have to necessarily be the vial we know about, I still have questions about other blood that they have, or correction, may have taken from him over the years. Also, when googling about 'flakes of blood' (please someone destroy my computer if something happens to my hubby LOL), I was reminded about the spot of blood they photographed in the bathroom, the spot that was missing the middle of it, but still had the ring of blood.

Here is another thing about that cut on SA that I have questions about. How come LE didn't ask him about it when they were questioning or saw him on the 4th, 5th, 6th? They asked Brendan about a scratch. SA's cut would have been noticeable if it was there, we could see it in a video a few days later, I think it was an NBC news video and they released the raw footage a few months back.

Anyway, I have a day off of work, I'm busy cleaning my cupboards out and I have too much time to think about this today [emoji3]

If someone took off the top would the flakes come off??
I think yes
JMO

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[dexter75]

Glad you have some extra time today to get things done! I totally agree with what you posted about blood flaking off from the vial. Another possibility: if I were going to plant blood, I would first take some out of the original vial using a syringe and transport it that way. It would be easy for any blood on the outside of the syringe to dry during transport. And then flake off later. Or, if the "planter" was wearing gloves that got blood on them during the transfer process, could it then dry and flake off later? Aargh, just wish we knew more...

I also agree with you about SA's cuts. Wouldn't that be part of LE's gathering evidence-taking photos of apparent scratches/injuries on potential suspects? Oh wait, they didn't even bother to photograph the bones they found, so I'm sure a few cuts or scratches would seem insignificant to them. Also, didn't one of TH's other contacts show up with scratches/injuries? Very suspicious, IMO.

Great point!
Why not photograph the very place that terrible blood came from????

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[dexter75]

Thanks for posting the photo. Looks like it was pretty deep. Very interesting to hear about the multiple sites of SA's blood in his car.

I thought the same😉 And to have access to Averys car...these cops had it made!!!
Or so they thought..*winks*
JMO

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[BigCityAccountant]

I'm still not seeing any cardboard lol

I have thought about the bloody rag. My problem with that theory is.... how would they know that it was SA's blood on that rag before using it to plant blood? It could have been another Avery, it could have been a customer, just too many possibilities in a salvage yard IMO If it was, I think there is a possibility of finding other fluids and even fibres from the rag in the samples.

Somewhere, but I can't remember where, it was said that the cut had something to do with the tin roof for the cabin.

With all that we know, there is so much we don't know still *sigh*

.
Well um...this piece of cardboard, in Exhibit 293 I may add. I also might add that if you look very closely at the console between the seats~~IT IS WIDE OPEN!! (reference right below my yellow line between the seats)

So much for pictures of an unaltered crime scene. :facepalm:

 

[Safeguard]

Thanks for posting the photo. Looks like it was pretty deep. Very interesting to hear about the multiple sites of SA's blood in his car.

I need to make a correction. Looking back over the files, I don't see the steering wheel mentioned as having blood on it. Here's the record:
SUMMARY OF BLOOD STAINS IN PONTIAC GRAN AM

GEAR SHIFT - contact/transfer
TOP & PASSENGER SIDE OF CENTRE CONSOLE - contact/transfer
FRONT EDGE OF REAR SEAT - contact/transfer
TOP OF CENTRE CONSOLE (below gear shift) - two drops 3mm & 6mm

TESTIMONY : relating to blood spatter. Day 11 p198 & Day 12 cross examination
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Jury-Trial-Transcript-Day-11-2007Feb26.pdf

Here's an upload pic, but it a terrible one. Not to mention that car is filthy! Lol!
http://m.imgur.com/xsXI8Yt?r

 

[dexter75]

.
Well um...this piece of cardboard, in Exhibit 293 I may add. I also might add that if you look very closely at the console between the seats~~IT IS WIDE OPEN!! So much for pictures of an unaltered crime scene. :facepalm:

Yes!!! That's what hubby and I were discussing earlier!

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[BigCityAccountant]

I still think that is a phone here in the picture...

...and while I'm on that thought...
Who would have TH's voicemail password??? Possibly the guy who helped set it up when she was in the Cingular store in August, 2005, perhaps. Who would also have access to other phones and have the ability to potentially make that call at 1:52 pm that couldn't be identified??

JMHO of course.

 

[missy1974]

.
Well um...this piece of cardboard, in Exhibit 293 I may add. I also might add that if you look very closely at the console between the seats~~IT IS WIDE OPEN!! (reference right below my yellow line between the seats)

So much for pictures of an unaltered crime scene. :facepalm:

ohhhhhhhhh I think that is the floor!

The pic you linked is a zoomed in pic of exhibit 293


These photo's were taken in the crime lab garage or wherever lol

Just for comparison, here is exhibit 290, taken from the drivers side.



I don't see the cell phone, but I do see that console is open! It's that console where they found the other part of the lanyard.

 

[missy1974]

I just checked the transcripts, the photo's of the RAV4 that we have been looking at were taken on Nov. 6th in the crime lab.

Q. (By Attorney Gahn)~ Mr. Groffy, on November 6 of 2005, did you take photographs of a 1999 Toyota RAV4 that belonged to Teresa Halbach?
A. Yes, I did.


In Michael Riddle's testimony he says this about doing the inventory on the RAV4

A. Well, I came to work on November 7th, on a Monday morning, and I was informed by my unit leader that a vehicle had been brought in in relation to this case and I was assigned to process the vehicle for the presence of latent finger and/or palm prints and also to inventory the contents of the vehicle

later in his testimony...
Q. And, finally, during the course of your inventory of the contents of this vehicle, did you find an Air National Guard lanyard?
A. Yes, I did.


So on the 6th, we see the console open. On the 7th, one end of the lanyard is found in the console. On the 8th, the magic key with the other end of lanyard is found in SA's bedroom.

:thinking:

 

[BigCityAccountant]

I just checked the transcripts, the photo's of the RAV4 that we have been looking at were taken on Nov. 6th in the crime lab.

Q. (By Attorney Gahn)~ Mr. Groffy, on November 6 of 2005, did you take photographs of a 1999 Toyota RAV4 that belonged to Teresa Halbach?
A. Yes, I did.


In Michael Riddle's testimony he says this about doing the inventory on the RAV4

A. Well, I came to work on November 7th, on a Monday morning, and I was informed by my unit leader that a vehicle had been brought in in relation to this case and I was assigned to process the vehicle for the presence of latent finger and/or palm prints and also to inventory the contents of the vehicle

later in his testimony...
Q. And, finally, during the course of your inventory of the contents of this vehicle, did you find an Air National Guard lanyard?
A. Yes, I did.


So on the 6th, we see the console open. On the 7th, one end of the lanyard is found in the console. On the 8th, the magic key with the other end of lanyard is found in SA's bedroom.

:thinking:

.
Ok, so that might explain things with that picture....

But good catch on when the laynard was found in relation to the key...