AUS - Khandalyce Kiara Pearce, Wynarka, Bones of a Child Discovered, July'15 - #5

[browneyedsusan]

http://www.msn.com/en-au/news/other/clothing-found-with-childs-remains-in-sa/ar-AAdchL3

Police have released photos of the T-shirt, pink track pants and blue teddy bear pajamas found with the skeletal remains near the Karoonda Highway at Wynarka, east of Adelaide, on Tuesday.

And the pic I saw put them in black, but the suitcase was not black and they pictured it that way.

 

[Makara]

She was found with a pair, I remember the photo, so I assumed she was wearing them.

There were apparently about 50 items found with the suitcase and some of those could be described as pyjamas but we don't know if Angel was clothed or not. Some people have assumed that she was wrapped in the quilt but police haven't confirmed that either.

 

[jessie]

Only my own take on the vid. of the lady witness. I did a course on Forensic psychology (and must add I am not qualified for anything!). But it opened my eyes to witness statements and how unreliable they can be.
It appears imperative that witnesses must be interviewed separately and before they have time to speak to anyone else at the scene, since other peoples' views can influence their recollection.
IDK if in hindsight this/these witnesses who saw the suitcase man were influenced by the discovery of the suitcase contents.
It isn't their fault in any way, but memory can be elusive and guided by later events.
I'm not going into the "maybe this" and "maybe that", but imo their statements should be treated with the above in mind.
Hope I'm not saying anything upsetting here - I'm just voicing my thoughts FWIW.

 

[JaneSA]

"It was on this road in early May that two local women saw the well dressed man holding a suitcase as they returned from walking their dogs. One of the women went back into her house and then watched from her lounge room window as he passed right by her front door. She says she then watched as he continued walking into the scrub towards where the suitcase and body were eventually found by police. "

from the ABC News transcript.

So where did they pass each other?

It's not possible, is it?

 

[Makara]

Only my own take on the vid. of the lady witness. I did a course on Forensic psychology (and must add I am not qualified for anything!). But it opened my eyes to witness statements and how unreliable they can be.
It appears imperative that witnesses must be interviewed separately and before they have time to speak to anyone else at the scene, since other peoples' views can influence their recollection.
IDK if in hindsight this/these witnesses who saw the suitcase man were influenced by the discovery of the suitcase contents.
It isn't their fault in any way, but memory can be elusive and guided by later events.
I'm not going into the "maybe this" and "maybe that", but imo their statements should be treated with the above in mind.
Hope I'm not saying anything upsetting here - I'm just voicing my thoughts FWIW.

Thanks Jessie. Well said.

 

[Makara]

"It was on this road in early May that two local women saw the well dressed man holding a suitcase as they returned from walking their dogs. One of the women went back into her house and then watched from her lounge room window as he passed right by her front door. She says she then watched as he continued walking into the scrub towards where the suitcase and body were eventually found by police. "

from the ABC News transcript.

So where did they pass each other?

It's not possible, is it?

I was just about to say the same thing. In this report the woman said that the man walked into the scrub, yet in the more recent interview she says that he crossed the road and headed towards the railway tracks.

ETA: Ok, so he crossed the road, headed towards the railway tracks and then disappeared into the scrub? Urrghh! This is doing my head in!

 

[Bliss_Perth]

Probably going by the child's teeth, but that's not 100 percent sure by the police. They say they have leads or whatever to believe it's not. There is still a chance the child could be Madeline, but she's not the top of the list by the evidence. The parents gave dna, so I think to wait for them to say quicker than the sa police who are searching all local children first.

Thanks susan, i would of though the teeth as well, i was reading about it earliar how they're able to extract DNA from inside a tooth. The 9 news report today said they failed at getting a DNA profile so they have requested for Ancient DNA extraction. I don't what's truth sometimes with the news reports n articles. Just thought the police may have confirmed

 

[JaneSA]

Re both DNA and body...

The remains are bones only and some hair. The is no "body" as such to have been "dressed" in anything.

DNA from bones is much harder to extract and not even always possible at all.

However, if they have even partial DNA strings and something to compare to, that's easy.
They only need about a 40-50 string sequence to compare to the Mccann DNA to rule it out - Easy, and done immediately.

Finally, even if they are able to extract a sufficiently complete DNA string, the then need someone to compare it to.
Once then have a match, they can say person A and person B are related in some way.

 

[JaneSA]

The reference to using the Ancient DNA Database does not mean an old method.

It refers to the "Online Ancient Genome Repository" which is a collection of DNA data from ancient human skeletons and microbes found in their dental plaque.
This information will tell them the genetic nationality of the remains.

Remember that DNA is absolutely useless unless you have someone to compare it to, so even if they get a full genome sequence, it doesn't identify the child until they have other people to compare it to.

 

[bettiepageturner]

Does Australia do familial genetic testing? Better, more uninitiated question, what kind of crimes does Australia collect DNA for? If this fate befell our angel at the hands of a relative, I would almost be willing to bet he has domestic or drug priors. But again, this is from a US system perspective.

 

[jessie]

@ JaneSA - They can do it. They did it with Richard III remains over here.

The big problem with DNA is that they need to be able to match it to somebody though. My hope is that the person/s involved in this atrocious crime have come under the eyes of LE before and have their DNA on record.

In your continent do the authorities record DNA as a matter of course?

 

[reasypeasy]

Does Australia do familial genetic testing? Better, more uninitiated question, what kind of crimes does Australia collect DNA for? If this fate befell our angel at the hands of a relative, I would almost be willing to bet he has domestic or drug priors. But again, this is from a US system perspective.

No idea exactly what we test for here, but one thing I do know is that just recently quite few states have done materials management projects (retesting old evidence from cold cases) and the reasons are partly that the testing technology has improved and partly that the technology they use to look for matches between DNA collected in different states has improved.

 

[jessie]

Science is constantly making tremendous advances, DNA recovery included.
I believe that previously they were only able to extract DNA from hair if they had the hair root, but I think now that new techniques enable DNA to be taken from hair fibres.
Let's hope forensics can provide an answer to this.

 

[JaneSA]

Since 2001 Police in Australia can take DNA samples from people charged with or suspected of committing a serious offence that carries a statutory penalty of 12 months or more.
If a person is later found not guilty any DNA sample must be destroyed.
So basically, we have DNA samples of people who have been convicted of a serious crime since 2001.
But not all are tested.
If, for example, a person committed murder and then confessed, there would be no reason no take and record their DNA.

Therefore, unless there is someone with a very close familial match to this child who is already convicted of a serious crime, and whose investigation happened to require a DNA sample, on the database, it's not going to help identify her.

I mean, being realistic, if the police came to your door and said the victim shared a 95% DNA match with you, could you account for the grandchildren of every one of your second or third cousins?
In most cases that's going to be about 1,000-2,000 people. Do you know 1,000 of your own closest living relatives? I don't.

 

[JaneSA]

That's true reasypeasy - as long as they suspect someone first.
A lot of old, bagged evidence has been re-examined, partial DNA extracted and then matched to suspects with a strong enough degree of certainty to cause the suspect to realise they had to confess.
But of course, the suspect is already serving time for another crime in order to be on the database.

 

[JaneSA]

Does Australia do familial genetic testing? Better, more uninitiated question, what kind of crimes does Australia collect DNA for? If this fate befell our angel at the hands of a relative, I would almost be willing to bet he has domestic or drug priors. But again, this is from a US system perspective.

Domestic violence or drugs crimes would not be within the range for DNA recording unless really, really extreme.
DV would need a charge of attempted murder.
Drugs crimes, if they attracted a minimum 12 mth penalty (not many do) would need to include some form of extreme personal violence as well I think to be DNA sampled.

 

[JaneSA]

BTW, I don't think police mean the DNA extraction process is incomplete.
They mean the work of matching it to the database is incomplete.
That's what the university is working on.
That and the full profiling (different from straight extraction) using the Australia Centre for Ancient DNA at Adelaide University.

https://www.adelaide.edu.au/acad/research/

 

[browneyedsusan]

They have her hair so long as the hair wasn't sun bleached. With the body decomposing on the clothes, so much you can't even see the clothes in the luggage. I think they have enough. It's my opinion they have a foreign child and they are trying to place her by nationality. She doesn't yet match any of the missing children on database and they are searching for children not reported missing. There are about 256 children no one can verify is still living in Australia alone, and if that goes international ,no telling how many.

 

[browneyedsusan]

http://www.people.com/article/polle...e-was-likely-boston-area?xid=rss-topheadlines

This is one being investigated at the same time the Wynarka one came out didn't get murdered or were there any drugs found in her system. No one has claimed her yet.

 

[JaneSA]

I was just about to say the same thing. In this report the woman said that the man walked into the scrub, yet in the more recent interview she says that he crossed the road and headed towards the railway tracks.

ETA: Ok, so he crossed the road, headed towards the railway tracks and then disappeared into the scrub? Urrghh! This is doing my head in!

I can't see how or where it is possible.
Unless she was walking west to east and could see him further down the road (to the east), walking east to west before the turn into her house.
Then she races into the lounge in time to see him walk past her front window.

Either she's really fast, he's really slow, or the distance at which she saw him was not actually close enough for 2 strangers to make eye contact anyway - or to make much of a judgement about how "eerie" they were for that matter, or even perhaps, what they were carrying.

I have placed figures on the map to show relative positions if they were walking at the same speed. (NOTE: the figures are not in proportion )




The arrows indicate the closest points these 2 people could be to each other in order for her to have time to get inside to the lounge room window before he walked by.

Now, using the street view and these points, and placing the correctly proportioned male figure at the closest point, this is what she saw.