AUS - Khandalyce Kiara Pearce, Wynarka, Bones of a Child Discovered, July'15 - #6

[hideoustroll]

It would be interesting to know exactly what processes here in Australia are in place to ensure children don't go off the grid.

We have a birth certificate.

Follow up by Maternal Health nurse following discharge.

Immunization is compulsory unless you (In the past) had a religious objection.. so If you didn't follow up on immunization, I wonder if there is an automatic response by some government organisation to check on that child's welfare???

Having enrolled all my children in school at the appropriate age .... I wonder if there is some authority that keeps track and some flag is raised in concern to non enrolment???

We have Medicare .... but I can't recall if I had to add my children's names or they did it automatically ????

Non attendance at any doctors .... probably doesn't raise any flags, as there are many GPs to choose from... my kids hardly ever see a doctor.

Mmmm just wondering how we keep an eye on our most vulnerable (Children) in Australia...

It does appear there have been cases (Such as the House of Horrors) that we probably don't have an adequate system here ???

I don't think they do much at all until, like in this case, they have evidence of a crime and the police get involved and use their powers to start data-matching.

 

[Oona]

It would be interesting to know exactly what processes here in Australia are in place to ensure children don't go off the grid.

We have a birth certificate.

Follow up by Maternal Health nurse following discharge.

Immunization is compulsory unless you (In the past) had a religious objection.. so If you didn't follow up on immunization, I wonder if there is an automatic response by some government organisation to check on that child's welfare???

Having enrolled all my children in school at the appropriate age .... I wonder if there is some authority that keeps track and some flag is raised in concern to non enrolment???

We have Medicare .... but I can't recall if I had to add my children's names or they did it automatically ????

Non attendance at any doctors .... probably doesn't raise any flags, as there are many GPs to choose from... my kids hardly ever see a doctor.

Mmmm just wondering how we keep an eye on our most vulnerable (Children) in Australia...

It does appear there have been cases (Such as the House of Horrors) that we probably don't have an adequate system here ???

My understanding is that immunization is not compulsory in Australia but to not immunize may affect one's eligibility for family assistance benefits.

 

[Seabreeze1]

What I don't get is why leave the suitcase in the open. It would be far easier to bury it interstate and never to be found. Another theory I have is this child could have been born overseas and there could be no Australian paper trail for her. You don't have to register for medicare etc it would be quite easy to come here and settle and get rid of a child without any agencies picking up on it if that child had never been enrolled in a school etc here.

 

[symbah]

It would be interesting to know exactly what processes here in Australia are in place to ensure children don't go off the grid.

We have a birth certificate.

Follow up by Maternal Health nurse following discharge.

Immunization is compulsory unless you (In the past) had a religious objection.. so If you didn't follow up on immunization, I wonder if there is an automatic response by some government organisation to check on that child's welfare???

Having enrolled all my children in school at the appropriate age .... I wonder if there is some authority that keeps track and some flag is raised in concern to non enrolment???

We have Medicare .... but I can't recall if I had to add my children's names or they did it automatically ????

Non attendance at any doctors .... probably doesn't raise any flags, as there are many GPs to choose from... my kids hardly ever see a doctor.

Mmmm just wondering how we keep an eye on our most vulnerable (Children) in Australia...

It does appear there have been cases (Such as the House of Horrors) that we probably don't have an adequate system here ???

I think that the Government system currently used for keeping track of newborns is a bit hit & miss. My daughter had a baby last year & we had to chase the Maternal Nurse. We live in a small country town, however my grandchild was born in a capital city. My daughter & grandchild returned home on day 3 after birth. This baby was her 1st child & she was very nervous. Needless to say, one week later, still no phone call from the Maternal Nurse. We rang around & nobody seemed to know anything about my grandchild's birth. Eventually we managed to organise a nurse from a bigger neighbouring town to do a home visit. She came twice, and then a nurse from our town came once. Thats it. No more follow up. Had we not rang around to try & organise a home visit then I guess absolutely zilch would of been on any government paperwork.

 

[Puggle]

Hope it is OK to post this article it is off topic.
This little angel was reported by the parents to have been deceased - though one had suggested getting rid of the body.

Horrific, sad and sicking story.
Ebony : The girl in the room.

https://www.themonthly.com.au/monthly-essays-anne-manne-ebony-girl-room-2248

It's not really off topic sosocurious ....

This is just the sort of environment our little angel could have come from .... the only difference is in Ebony's story, the ambulance/police were called.

From what we have read..... and I am probably mostly referring to Andrew Rules article..... Our Angel in IMO has come from a situation similar to Ebony's .... she's been lost in the cracks somewhere, forgotten about. Little to no external family involvement in her life.

Andrew Rule suggests Angel was beaten to death and left to decompose - I believe he is suggesting she wasn't buried or any other attempt to conceal her remains ... just left to rot.... and then in some point in time there was a need to scoop up her remains and hide them within the suitcase..

So... no definitely not off topic...

Thank you for sharing this story .... although... I feel quite empty right now having read it..

It still shocks me how cruel others can be ....

 

[they'll get you]

If he (suitcase man) is a wholesaler or similar, sales reps move through towns all the time.

Clothing items sold at petrol stations etc.

The door to door salespeople still move through towns. My hubby works in an industrial area northwest of Sydney and they are still out and about but not so prevalent as a couple of years ago, they are backpacker types & Sudanese looking for a quick dollar. They are dropped off by a mini bus and they sell everything from fluffy toys to small junky electricals.
I assure you this industrial area is far larger than Wynarka.

 

[Puggle]

I think that the Government system currently used for keeping track of newborns is a bit hit & miss. My daughter had a baby last year & we had to chase the Maternal Nurse. We live in a small country town, however my grandchild was born in a capital city. My daughter & grandchild returned home on day 3 after birth. This baby was her 1st child & she was very nervous. Needless to say, one week later, still no phone call from the Maternal Nurse. We rang around & nobody seemed to know anything about my grandchild's birth. Eventually we managed to organise a nurse from a bigger neighbouring town to do a home visit. She came twice, and then a nurse from our town came once. Thats it. No more follow up. Had we not rang around to try & organise a home visit then I guess absolutely zilch would of been on any government paperwork.

Mmmm see your example highlights a systemic problem then ... so possibly we don't have a true system for tracking newborns and monitoring our children here in Australia .... something worthy to look into... I'm feeling mighty peeved off...

 

[Puggle]

The door to door salespeople still move through towns. My hubby works in an industrial area northwest of Sydney and they are still out and about but not so prevalent as a couple of years ago, they are backpacker types & Sudanese looking for a quick dollar. They are dropped off by a mini bus and they sell everything from fluffy toys to small junky electricals.
I assure you this industrial area is far larger than Wynarka.

Yeah I am thinking there probably was people/person that did go to Wynarka every now and then with a suitcase selling perfumes... like the example I gave the other night...dropped off one person...others at Karoonda... just like the ones you are describing..

So possibly not other locals trying to insert themselves with made up stories... but rather...just a coincidence..

 

[symbah]

Mmmm see your example highlights a systemic problem then ... so possibly we don't have a true system for tracking newborns and monitoring our children here in Australia .... something worthy to look into... I'm feeling mighty peeved off...

Yeah, just feel its a bit hit & miss. Perhaps records get a little lost when baby is born out of area. I suspect records are quite good for babies born in big cities in Australia & returning to a home within that city.

 

[sosocurious]

It's not really off topic sosocurious ....

This is just the sort of environment our little angel could have come from .... the only difference is in Ebony's story, the ambulance/police were called.

From what we have read..... and I am probably mostly referring to Andrew Rules article..... Our Angel in IMO has come from a situation similar to Ebony's .... she's been lost in the cracks somewhere, forgotten about. Little to no external family involvement in her life.

Andrew Rule suggests Angel was beaten to death and left to decompose - I believe he is suggesting she wasn't buried or any other attempt to conceal her remains ... just left to rot.... and then in some point in time there was a need to scoop up her remains and hide them within the suitcase..

So... no definitely not off topic...

Thank you for sharing this story .... although... I feel quite empty right now having read it..

It still shocks me how cruel others can be ....

I was actually thinking that this could have been the type of situation myself Puggle.
This occurred not to far from where I live and I have been thinking about little Ebony a lot since little Angel was found.

 

[they'll get you]

I have a couple of children. Immunisation, nursing visits etc are tracked by government.
I wasnt insinuating you said she was offgrid. I was just saying.

I firmly believe an under aged school child, living an isolated life could definitely have no record.
When I was in real estate I saw a humble property which was really isolated, about a kilometre OFF a bush track. It was self sufficient, it's own water supply, chooks, sheep and several cows. The woman had a gaggle of snotty nosed kids and she proudly boasted she'd given birth to all her children at the front room window and had a child on her breast while speaking with me. She was married so I assume her husband was at work.
I thought of her as a younger version of 'Ma Kettle' with not THAT many kids, a truly wonderful experience meeting such a down to earth woman who seemed very well educated. I wouldn't be surprised if those children would only see a doctor if they were in a critical condition. I don't recall seeing a car there and I couldn't imagine an ambulance finding the property. My 4x4 got me in and out and I smile when I think of her absolute happiness.

 

[DutchTreat]

I guess that makes me and my friend who bought the same black tutu for my niece odd in your eyes. She was 4 at the time and loved it. I don't think the color every phased her. Not all little girls like pink, purple and princesses.

I don't see it as odd at all. I'm in California and 3-5 years ago I saw tutu skirts everywhere for toddlers and young girls. In all colors.

I don't get the assumption that a black tutu equates to a pedophile.

Personally I think this is the case of abuse at home. I think her clothing was thrown into the suitcase and other items (the thong, if it's true) and men's shirts made it in by accident.

I think whoever dumped the suitcase knew about it and wanted her to be found.

Seems like the simplest explanation to me.




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I'm not saying there's something wrong with dressing a child in black. But in this case I think it might mean something because of the context.

I really believe that this child must have lived in an environment that eventually caused her being beaten to death. And I think it must have been something like DV, sex exploitation, homeless people, drug addiction, possibly pedophiles, or at least a situation where someone, somehow had a position of power over this (mother and) child.

An unhealthy, controlling, dominant position for whatever reason. Sex exploitation, like a pimp, someone housing a homeless mother and child, an abusive male (father of the child, boyfriend, dealer etc.).

And then, the black tutu and the quilt have a distinctly different style when compared to the rest of the girls clothes. The other items are pink, girlie things. The red shorts and the black Holden shorts are 'odd ducks' of which I'm not convinced they really belonged to the little girl.

It seems to me like the quilt and the tutu were gifts by someone else. Either by someone with a different taste (color & style) with the best intentions.
Or if there is some sex/pedophile thing going on, dressing a 3-4 year old in a black dress, might be done on purpose, like dressing a woman in a black mini skirt and stiletto heels.
There doesn't have to bee anything wrong with the clothing items by itself.

But in these circumstances it might mean something.

 

[Froglady]

I think that little girls name was Shellay ebony ward. Such a tragic case. She easily could have survived that horrific ordeal if people did their jobs

 

[crabstick]

I firmly believe an under aged school child, living an isolated life could definitely have no record.
When I was in real estate I saw a humble property which was really isolated, about a kilometre OFF a bush track. It was self sufficient, it's own water supply, chooks, sheep and several cows. The woman had a gaggle of snotty nosed kids and she proudly boasted she'd given birth to all her children at the front room window and had a child on her breast while speaking with me. She was married so I assume her husband was at work.
I thought of her as a younger version of 'Ma Kettle' with not THAT many kids, a truly wonderful experience meeting such a down to earth woman who seemed very well educated. I wouldn't be surprised if those children would only see a doctor if they were in a critical condition. I don't recall seeing a car there and I couldn't imagine an ambulance finding the property. My 4x4 got me in and out and I smile when I think of her absolute happiness.

Yep. Offgrid If there was a place, Mallee represents the possibility.

So none of the gaggle were attending school.

If your child is born in a hospital in Australia...

 

[Camp Chair]

Re: House of Horrors case

Interesting blog written by social worker, Tony Tonkin, who has worked with convicted House of Horrors offender TANIA STAKER (sister to co-offender Trudy Quinlivan/Staker). He discusses his views on the short-comings of 'the system' in the HOH case.

The inability for states to share files and to follow up on families who move from one state to another is a failing of the system. At what point were FSA notified of this family? If it was prior to the raid why didn’t they take action earlier?

http://socialworkchallenges.blogspot.com.au/2011/09/house-of-horror-alternate-view.html

 

[Oona]

Yeah, just feel its a bit hit & miss. Perhaps records get a little lost when baby is born out of area. I suspect records are quite good for babies born in big cities in Australia & returning to a home within that city.

It is also worth adding that along with immunizations, maternal health nurse visits are voluntary. If not receiving any financial benefits from the government, a child can quite feasibly have very little to do with "the system" between birth and school age, if the parents choose, without raising any alarm bells.

 

[crabstick]

As soon as any of the gaggle become ill they end up back on the system. Police have some amazing systems now to analyse that data along with other data.

We were only discussing a great grandmother last night who gave birth 11 kids ended up with 7 in a similar situation 150 odd years ago.

Angel could well be a similar case where parents killed her rather than take her to a hospital.

Yep. Offgrid If there was a place, Mallee represents the possibility.

So none of the gaggle were attending school.

If your child is born in a hospital in Australia...

What I don't get is why leave the suitcase in the open. It would be far easier to bury it interstate and never to be found. Another theory I have is this child could have been born overseas and there could be no Australian paper trail for her. You don't have to register for medicare etc it would be quite easy to come here and settle and get rid of a child without any agencies picking up on it if that child had never been enrolled in a school etc here.

 

[Imagining]

If she was a house of horrors child and had a birth certificate wouldn't they have put out a missing child report? Also Im thinking once those photos were taken nothing would have been allowed to leave the place. It's all evidence. Evidence that should have ended up in a skip bin but still evidence lol. The only thing That stood out to me was the use of a doona cover for the kitchen window curtain and also the crocheted blanket out the back :/

My understanding by reading the article was that there were six children in the House of Horrors that the authority didn't know their existence until 2008. Anyone please correct me if this is not true.

 

[scandinavian girl]

Musical notes?

yes I was looking at the quilt notes and it is very similar in style

 

[symbah]

It is also worth adding that along with immunizations, maternal health nurse visits are voluntary. If not receiving any financial benefits from the government, a child can quite feasibly have very little to do with "the system" between birth and school age, if the parents choose, without raising any alarm bells.

Wow, I didn't realise the Maternal Nurse Visit is voluntary. There must be so many babies & children flying under the radar out there. The maternal Nurse that eventually came to see my daughter & grandchild had to make a 100k round trip. Perhaps the travel involved influences whether the new mother is contacted in the first place. Just thinking government cuts on spending etc