Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #1

[Mrs G Norris]

Mrs Norris - unfortunately this type of crime is endemic to all classes and cultures.
"Call it reverse snobbery or what you will. And give me the slightly 'openly darker' working classes any day. "

But these crimes will never stop those that think they are above the law or take the law into their own hands.

Oh I agree, I was more referring to the shock some are expressing that it happened in a middle class family. No demographic is immune.

 

[alicat]

Oh I agree, I was more referring to the shock some are expressing that it happened in a middle class family. No demographic is immune.

Do you remember the High Society Murders in Melbourne? It's true, it can happen to anyone unfortunately.

 

[possumheart]

Had heard he had an AVO out on him starting three months ago.

 

[nursebeeme]

peeps: please do not discuss people not officially connected to the case (specifically referring to the woman's name that was posted).. thanks everyone

 

[mimi2456]

At the risk of upsetting everyone's resolve about this case i will act as devil's advocate once again....*
You know it would be terrible if my partner went missing without trace right now because....
A) I'm covered in scratches and bites and a hurt foot from boating on the weekend.
B) we have some neighbors that like to have loud domestic fights and a lot of dogs that bark.
C) if he went missing I would be so beside myself I would have to be heavily sedated which might impair my ability to drive let alone my effectiveness as a searcher (even though people might think I'm stoic)
D) as partners are generally the first suspect and considering many friends and family have personal insight that might throw some questionable light upon me which is no different to many relationships (this is hypothetical) I *hired a lawyer to advise me as to the most appropriate actions .

I WOULD BE NUMBER ONE SUSPECT AND THE SUBJECT OF PURE CONJECTURE BY THE PUBLIC AND IN THIS FORUM.

I'm the first to think how little we know and relate it to a Mel gibson 'conspiracy theory' kind of scenario. We only know what 'they' allow us to know. *Firstly, we only know what evidence the police have, if any, thence what evidence the police are allowed to reveal without risk of being sued for defamation if deemed erroneous or possibly affect a trial. *Secondly the media get hold of this limited, selective information, sieve through it and present it in a way that suits the reporter, the story editor but most influentially the station being represented which only decides on how a report is presented on the basis of ratings or political and/or economic interests. *So considering the talk about political involvement, which is highly unusual, we' re getting into what I call the 'Dan brown' scenario. Who's read 'the lost symbol' or seen 'the skulls'? *

This case is so obscure and I don't know if I think that just because I knew those involved...probably. *But I'm glad she's been found, if it is confirmed to be her. *Not sure who else has been reported missing lately in similar clothing.

I just like to rely on a judicial system which is based on ones innocence until proven guilty. *Am I wrong?

 

[nursebeeme]

hi mimi! just jumping off your post to say that your opinion is just as welcome as any other opinion. That is how we work here at websleuths. (and welcome to websleuths to you and all other newcomers :cheer

 

[ozazure]

not wrong Mimi but people can speculate on the facts as presented and statistically, intimate partner homicide is the best bet. had she disappeared on her way home from shopping for example rather than him reporting her missing after a large period of time with no alibi for his movement during that time, i personally would want to know more to form an opinion. that fact alone, character references irrelevant, him not searching irrelevant to my opinion, car crash interesting as an aside, the bare bones of this story speak loudly to me, and most.

 

[bearbear]

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...d-at-kholo-creek/story-e6freoof-1226343136675

Baden-Clay homicide investigation

Police strongly suspect the body found at Kholo Creek this morning is missing Brookfield woman Allison Baden-Clay and are treating it as a ...
Play


The Courier-Mail


THE elements that finally gave up the location of Allison Baden-Clay will now act as vital clues in solving her murder.

The search for the missing mother-of-three ended yesterday at 11am when a canoeist discovered a woman's body on the bed of Kholo Creek, not far from where it joins the Brisbane River at Anstead in the city's west.

That officially began the hunt for Mrs Baden-Clay's killer.

The Courier-Mail understands the body had no visual signs of foul play but police are treating the incident as a homicide.

The Courier-Mail also understands:

• The search for clues will take in a Scout camp upstream from where Mrs Baden-Clay's body was found.

• Police are hopeful of finding her mobile phone after narrowing the location of the key missing item to an area spanning 150m.




.

<modsnip>

 

[bearbear]

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...d-at-kholo-creek/story-e6freoof-1226343136675

Baden-Clay homicide investigation

Police strongly suspect the body found at Kholo Creek this morning is missing Brookfield woman Allison Baden-Clay and are treating it as a ...
Play


The Courier-Mail


THE elements that finally gave up the location of Allison Baden-Clay will now act as vital clues in solving her murder.

The search for the missing mother-of-three ended yesterday at 11am when a canoeist discovered a woman's body on the bed of Kholo Creek, not far from where it joins the Brisbane River at Anstead in the city's west.

That officially began the hunt for Mrs Baden-Clay's killer.

The Courier-Mail understands the body had no visual signs of foul play but police are treating the incident as a homicide.

The Courier-Mail also understands:

&#8226; The search for clues will take in a Scout camp upstream from where Mrs Baden-Clay's body was found.

&#8226; Police are hopeful of finding her mobile phone after narrowing the location of the key missing item to an area spanning 150m.

so does this mean the police are saying they dont believe the husband last saw her at 10pm if they think the killer may have taken her at 8pm and who gave them specific info where her phone will be found now?

 

[mimi2456]

Exactly what I thought. Yet again selected info revealed...

 

[truthseeker12]

It's good to have a lawyer in the forum! It's good to see how criminal lawyers formulate a defence even though it's most likely bogus...I want to hire you as my defence if I ever think to commit a crime Mimi2456

I know your opinion is totally welcome here (it's an open forum), but I find it completely cold and premature. We are not sitting in a courtroom. Let's say he is guilty, the things you have put forward are what his legal team are going to concoct. Anyway I know that they are going to put the best public prosecutor on this case, because it is a high profile case. These prosecutors are just as clued in as the defence.

*I had this same convo with my 'defence lawyer' sister earlier she said something of a similar nature, in defence of the husband (even though she personally believes he did it). This is where I think criminal lawyers that defend murderers are morally bankrupt.

Lets just allow the police to do their job properly (they are being incredibly thorough) and hope that they get hard evidence that a defence team can't have throw out of the court.

Whoever did this to Ms Baden Clay, may they be brought to justice swiftly!

 

[Keyboredom]

Mimi, good on you for pointing out the presumption of innocence till proven guilty. It's horrifying to think what has happened to an innocent man's reputation if he indeed had absolutely nothing to do with this suspected murder. The other issues affecting his reputation would have remained local gossip if this case wasn't so high profile.

If he has been honest with detectives all along, he should be fine. Although it does seem they are indicating his statement re having seen his wife at 10pm (if that is really what his statement was) may be in doubt now they have specifically mentioned Allison could have been placed in that area as early as 8pm. Adding that to some irregularities pointed out, the clear indication the family cars are of interest for some reason apparently well known to police, he definitely seems to have some issues he'll need to address.

If what people have assumed is correct, and you are connected with the legal defence around this case, I'm guessing you won't have time for web forums in the next 48 hours or so. Otherwise like you, I'll be watching on hoping for a miracle for Allison's 3 little girls, because the impact of what might have happened is too distressing to contemplate. Nothing is going to bring back their mummy now, but justice getting to whoever is responsible would be a very positive development.

At least yours is some balancing opinion/commentary on the case, whatever everyone thinks of your motives.

 

[itsthevibe]

Yeah we need oldies to enjoy themselves, but in the situation, with tv cameras there, that was an insight into the family no one wanted. It really was pretty stupid, giving any sort of indication the family is maybe not quite normal. Plus there's a pash and there's the same tongue action cockatoos use to open sunflower seeds. not trying to make light of this awful tragedy, all our thoughts should be with her little girls. Worrying they are staying in that environment, really.

Exactly and I can't see the point in them doing it - like they were overdoing it for some reason. I have no idea what motive they'd have, I see nothing that makes sense there.

And I agree, hate to think the girls are in that environment, the environment with the man who cheated on their mother for 2 years, who may have brutally murdered their mother, and the environment where the grandparents proudly display hunting trophies of beautiful animals on the wall in the entry foyer - yes in pride of place to show off their prowess in killing to all who enter! Lovely.

 

[itsthevibe]

At the risk of upsetting everyone's resolve about this case i will act as devil's advocate once again....*
You know it would be terrible if my partner went missing without trace right now because....
A) I'm covered in scratches and bites and a hurt foot from boating on the weekend.
B) we have some neighbors that like to have loud domestic fights and a lot of dogs that bark.
C) if he went missing I would be so beside myself I would have to be heavily sedated which might impair my ability to drive let alone my effectiveness as a searcher (even though people might think I'm stoic)
D) as partners are generally the first suspect and considering many friends and family have personal insight that might throw some questionable light upon me which is no different to many relationships (this is hypothetical) I *hired a lawyer to advise me as to the most appropriate actions .

I WOULD BE NUMBER ONE SUSPECT AND THE SUBJECT OF PURE CONJECTURE BY THE PUBLIC AND IN THIS FORUM.

I'm the first to think how little we know and relate it to a Mel gibson 'conspiracy theory' kind of scenario. We only know what 'they' allow us to know. *Firstly, we only know what evidence the police have, if any, thence what evidence the police are allowed to reveal without risk of being sued for defamation if deemed erroneous or possibly affect a trial. *Secondly the media get hold of this limited, selective information, sieve through it and present it in a way that suits the reporter, the story editor but most influentially the station being represented which only decides on how a report is presented on the basis of ratings or political and/or economic interests. *So considering the talk about political involvement, which is highly unusual, we' re getting into what I call the 'Dan brown' scenario. Who's read 'the lost symbol' or seen 'the skulls'? *

This case is so obscure and I don't know if I think that just because I knew those involved...probably. *But I'm glad she's been found, if it is confirmed to be her. *Not sure who else has been reported missing lately in similar clothing.

I just like to rely on a judicial system which is based on ones innocence until proven guilty. *Am I wrong?

Yes of course, as others have said and Nursebeeme has pointed out - people with different views are welcome here. However I'm not going to laud this post because of that, because I honestly feel it's clutching at straws. I haven't been on this forum long, but I thought the whole point was to contribute in different ways to cases we either feel we can provide assistance to, or simply to have a forum to discuss our own views and thoughts as things unfold. We are not police or lawyers on the case. If we were just leaving it to them and only discussing those kind of options within the boundaries of the law then this forum would be largely redundant.

From my point of view, I had strongly negative intuitive feelings about Gerard Baden-Clay from the time I met him about 6 years ago, very bad vibes indeed. Whether that means he killed his wife is another issue - but let's face it mimi2456, there are holes in his story particularly about the time he said he last saw her and the time the police have asked people to consider in terms of the vehicles. We are not stupid - even taking into account some things which have not been reported or have been misreported. Things don't add up. As well, the guy has been having an affair for 2 years, that's a liar right there. Doesnt make him a murderer, I agree, but definitely not a nice guy who cared about his wife. If it isn't him, well maybe he needs to take a good look at himself and what sort of a husband he has been and what his wifes life was like in the 2 years before her death.

 

[willough]

I agree itsthevibe. The moral fibre isn't there. So how can one deduce from his 'so called innocent word', whether or not he received said scratch from boating incident, slip of the shaver, or indeed from this incident. To expect his word to have any clout, given his affair, the appearance that him and the Dickie's dont seem connected and his parents being what I surmise as blatantly weird......is naive to me.

 

[willough]

It's good to have a lawyer in the forum! It's good to see how criminal lawyers formulate a defence even though it's most likely bogus...I want to hire you as my defence if I ever think to commit a crime Mimi2456

I know your opinion is totally welcome here (it's an open forum), but I find it completely cold and premature. We are not sitting in a courtroom. Let's say he is guilty, the things you have put forward are what his legal team are going to concoct. Anyway I know that they are going to put the best public prosecutor on this case, because it is a high profile case. These prosecutors are just as clued in as the defence.

*I had this same convo with my 'defence lawyer' sister earlier she said something of a similar nature, in defence of the husband (even though she personally believes he did it). This is where I think criminal lawyers that defend murderers are morally bankrupt.

Lets just allow the police to do their job properly (they are being incredibly thorough) and hope that they get hard evidence that a defence team can't have throw out of the court.

Whoever did this to Ms Baden Clay, may they be brought to justice swiftly!

I feel the same about those that defend with the knowledge that said person they are defending did the crime. Particularly murderous cases.

Your last point is a point everyone here can surely agree on, no matter what our views are.....lets hope it isnt too long before they are bought to justice. For those in her family that loved her, who would never harm her absolutely need and deserve this. Justice!!!

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Latest: http://www.news.com.au/national/hor...or-killer-begins/story-e6frfkvr-1226343136055

* The search for clues will take in a Scout camp upstream from where Mrs Baden-Clay's body was found.
* Police are hopeful of finding her mobile phone after narrowing the location of the key missing item to an area spanning 150m.
* Police believe the killer could have taken Mrs Baden-Clay's body to the area as early as 8pm on Thursday April 19.

'It is understood search crews were told the iPhone would be found in an area believed to be near the two neighbours and the Baden-Clay property itself.'

Sounds like they'll be able to find that phone .. good. Oh and the shifting of the timeframe to 'from 8pm' exposes GB-C's story as complete bunk in the eyes of the police and therefore the public .. oucheroo.

 

[Raskolnikov]

I'm a bit confussed. The news reports say they are searching around the 'Tyamolum campsite is a few hundred metres upstream.' Looking at the map I thought this site was downstream from where the body was found at Kholo. Someone correct me please.

 

[willough]

I'm a bit confussed. The news reports say they are searching around the 'Tyamolum campsite is a few hundred metres upstream.' Looking at the map I thought this site was downstream from where the body was found at Kholo. Someone correct me please.

On the map the site is upstream....She was found under the bridge at Mt Crosby Road I think. Which is just before Kholo Creek (near Little Ugly Creek) flows into the Brisbane River.

I apologise if I am wrong, but that is the impression I have got.

 

[Juno64]

I'm a bit confussed. The news reports say they are searching around the 'Tyamolum campsite is a few hundred metres upstream.' Looking at the map I thought this site was downstream from where the body was found at Kholo. Someone correct me please.

The body was found under the Mt Crosby Road overpass in Kholo Creek which is right at the mouth of the creek, where it meets the Brisbane River. The creek winds upstream from there around the scout camp. I used to live just a little further upstream from the camp backing onto the creek. It is not a large creek with alot of rocks and debris once you get away from the river. I would think even with the rain over the weekend it would be pretty unlikely that the body would wash any great distance without becoming snagged.