Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #13

[TheStupidTree]

The Stupid Tree, glad to hear that you can be supportive of your husband and that you honour him and his work by not repeating anything. I do agree that people in such stressful jobs need an outlet.....but they also need to know that that outlet won't repeat anything. I hope that when people in such jobs speak to their family about work that they try and not match the info to names so that family members can't identify cases too often. It must be very hard when many of these cases receive such public attention. This is just my opinion based on things that I read about this case.

I usually know which case it is because I see him on TV lol. The reason I am silent on these matters is his job security and our families safety. (Some ppl can be very dangerous) also alot of what I am told is quiet unsavoury. Names aren't usually involved in our conversations and alot of his work is done prior to the case becoming high profile. Most cases. (excepting murder) become high profile at the time of arrest. I think it is normal for the police to talk to their families about work. I can see your point about info being leaked though and it would be terrible if it caused issues in the investigation or trial.

 

[Woombite]

Anyone have a photo of the C21 Office to see if this would fit? Maybe if things were getting a bit heated at the restaurant .... Take it to the office where things got way out of hand. With business slump and fewer staff - l ess chance to be interrupted between 9pm say and4am. Also less conspicuous to neighbours etc as it could be viewed as office cleaners in the office at that time. Possible alternative imo.

Aerial view indicates that it would have underground or undercover parking. Also no residential ppty nearby.

Less chance of being seen loading a body in your underground carpark than near stickybeak neighbours at home.

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

This is a question for someone who has knowledge of police investigations: If a car is found to have evidence of being used in a crime don't they impound it until after the trial? Do they release cars that have been forensically tested and found to contain evidence back to the owners at all before a trial? Basically the same question phrased in two different ways. Sorry!

Yes, now that I think about it.To add more, as far as I am aware, tha computers are still in Police hands. At least they were still being held(as GBC had to visit police to download pics of Allison for the funeral) way after the cars had been released.

 

[Majenta]

yes GBC is older than Adam.

Interesting.. If you click on Adams profile his photo picture shows him with the exact same haircut and beard as GBC's new style... You could almost mistake them for one and the same person... Was Adam in Bris before or after the disappearance?

 

[linette]

Aerial view indicates that it would have underground or undercover parking. Also no residential ppty nearby.

Less chance of being seen loading a body in your underground carpark than near stickybeak neighbours at home.

... and I guess he would know what day/time the cleaners {if any} come to the building. I know some do night work.

 

[TheStupidTree]

Interesting.. If you click on Adams profile his photo picture shows him with the exact same haircut and beard as GBC's new style... You could almost mistake them for one and the same person... Was Adam in Bris before or after the disappearance?

Of you scroll through the pics there's some great older pics.

 

[CaseClosed]

Aerial view indicates that it would have underground or undercover parking. Also no residential ppty nearby.

Less chance of being seen loading a body in your underground carpark than near stickybeak neighbours at home.

IMO if there was any suspicion on the part of QPS that the murder happened at the office, it would have been cordoned off and declared a crime scene, but it didn't happen.

 

[linette]

Yes, now that I think about it.To add more, as far as I am aware, tha computers are still in Police hands. At least they were still being held(as GBC had to visit police to download pics of Allison for the funeral) way after the cars had been released.

So, does this mean that the computers may have evidence, but the cars don't because they've been released?

 

[Majenta]

Of you scroll through the pics there's some great older pics.

Yeh interesting viewing.. I just find it curious that when GBC chooses to grow a beard after being clean shaven for soi long he picks the exact same style as his brothers... They look so alike now

 

[angel1]

I just seen in the latest news report that Mr Atkinson again appealed to the public for any information about Mrs Baden-Clay's disappearance from her Brookfield home on April 20 and discovery of her body at Kholo Creek crossing in Brisbane's west 10 days later. Then down the bottom of the story it says Anyone with information on the murder of Mrs Baden-Clay can call Crimestoppers on 1800 333 000. Does that mean there is a possibility they need more information?? Also in the same one it says We haven't had a breakthrough as yet, but that breakthrough is only one piece of information away. Does that part mean that if nothing shows up in the forensics that they haven't got enough evidence??

 

[CaseClosed]

So, does this mean that the computers may have evidence, but the cars don't because they've been released?

My understanding is that IT forensics is a very slow process compared to analysing the cars. With the cars they may have found what they needed, kept samples, fibres, etc. and they didn't need to keep the cars any longer. iMO.

 

[TheStupidTree]

So, does this mean that the computers may have evidence, but the cars don't because they've been released?

Not necessarily. They might have been processed, evidence collected and returned. Might have been returned on purpose. Who knows?

 

[bearbear]

I would imagine the house might have been a bit of a mess after the investigators left. Things disrupted, dust for fingerprints etc. I think it was a kind thing to do to ensure the house was ready for GBC and the girls to return.

yes, i agree it was a kind and thoughtful thing to do, and probably a mess from all the police rummaging etc, but with the cleaning wondered if there was blood or luminol, or broken glass, holes in walls etc, they wanted to clean up so the girls didnt have to see?

 

[linette]

I just seen in the latest news report that Mr Atkinson again appealed to the public for any information about Mrs Baden-Clay's disappearance from her Brookfield home on April 20 and discovery of her body at Kholo Creek crossing in Brisbane's west 10 days later. Then down the bottom of the story it says Anyone with information on the murder of Mrs Baden-Clay can call Crimestoppers on 1800 333 000. Does that mean there is a possibility they need more information?? Also in the same one it says We haven't had a breakthrough as yet, but that breakthrough is only one piece of information away. Does that part mean that if nothing shows up in the forensics that they haven't got enough evidence??

Until an arrest is made they usually still appeal for public help... every little bit helps. Even if they have alot of information, another snippet of correct info will help. I'm hoping this is the reason now, too.

 

[linette]

Not necessarily. They might have been processed, evidence collected and returned. Might have been returned on purpose. Who knows?

Thankyou for the reply. I'm glad it doesn't automatically mean there was no evidence there.

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

Sorry, I disagree. I'm married to a detective. Cases like these that he has worked on are really distrubing. My hubby doesn't come home and blurt everything about his day but he does tell me things. He, like alot of his mates I know need an outlet. I don't repeat anything he tells me though because it's not worth his job or the safety of our family (in some cases). Police are human too, they're not robots or in a secret division of the govt where they lead secret double lives. They don't have 24/7 coinselling available if the want to just chat about their day. They don't undergo rigorous psychological training to hold everything in and have no emotion. Personally I could not do his job. Dealing with the absolute scum of the earth and helping their traumatized victims.

Moo, IMHO, IMO whatever.

I do so agree with you. Having had family in similar situations. The stuff they have to deal with on a day to day basis and in dealing with something like this is something that most could not imagine. They do need an outlet sometimes, to be able to continue on to do the work they do. They are human and I think it would be almost beyond human to expect them not to confide anything in their partners. Confiding is the word though. You are right they are not going to go into every detail and certainly would want to spare us some anyway.

 

[linette]

My understanding is that IT forensics is a very slow process compared to analysing the cars. With the cars they may have found what they needed, kept samples, fibres, etc. and they didn't need to keep the cars any longer. iMO.

So, the owner of the car may be able to tell if the police had taken samples from the car seats or carpet... eg: little bits missing ? Sorry if that sounds like a dumb question.

 

[Watsonian Institute]

From where I'm sitting, reporting has been straight down the line but I am guessing that you too realise the frustrations of having to sit on one's hands. I'm wondering about your perceptions of viewing this case from both sides? Anyway, it's good to see a like-minded soul in here (IMO - LOL)

I agree: Reporters usually have ample opportunity to interview other sources. But in this case, we haven't seen those stories - yet. That's not, of course, to say those interviews have not taken place, as you would know. I made an earlier post in Thread 12 about how the pressure is always enormous in situations where no one has yet done the bolt from the pack (what with all those itchy trigger fingers ), but the stamina has been admirable.

I find the forums that discuss cases such as this to be equally fascinating and concerning. There are a whole range of issues that arise, from legal issues relevant to Australia, ethical issues regarding the role of ordinary people who now have capacity to publish, and the roles and responsibilities of media when the public are completely absorbed by a case and demanding new information, constantly.

Cheers (IMO)

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

Would it be possible that police investigating a house could make a mess and do things like make holes in walls to see if things were hidden there? I don't know. This is just a question?

They could if they had a warrant and sufficent grounds to suspect that. Though I have to say generally they would be looking for something specific if so, and not probably punching holes all over the joint. But not sure what is meant by the description of holes in the walls-How many?

 

[Makara]

Hi everyone
I have been following these threads with interests since day one but have only registered today, and I hope that the following is both 'logical and rational'

In the first few threads there was a big emphasis on the search, what happened in house, finding the body and also GBCs behaviour and of course the movement of the cars. In the last few threads there have been some new angles, maybe dinner after the hairdressers, the chain theory, and new thoughts to where the body may have been dumped. I have been turning it over in my head for the last few days but what if you try to put them together in some kind of sequence;
GBCS goes to chemist in morning, may or may not attend Kenmore CC meeting, both parents attend the school running, Allison goes to hairdresser, kids have been arranged for sleepover and A and G agreed to meet for dinner to have discussion. A wants out, G is in bad mood because card got refused at Coles. They have argument over dinner, A walks out (to pick her car up at shopping centre) G is furious follows he. Kills her and dumps body in industrial bin, not many people around he did it quickly whilst she is in car. He goes home punches walls in frustration and panick, realizes her phone is still there etc. Rings Nigelaine 'help, help I finally killed her'. They get one of his friends to go out with him, one of them picks up A s car, two of them drive to Wirrabara road and dump body in Ugly Creek, weight down with chains taken from Coles car park'. Other drives As car back to the house.

Just my thoughts, would welcome any views etc

Great thinking Logic27. I was mulling over the supposed restaurant siting last night into the wee hours and had typed my thoughts but haven't yet posted it. For what it's worth I've included them below.

The mention of Allison and GBC having dinner at a local Kenmore restaurant however is interesting IMO.

It has been established that on Thursday 19th April Allison was at a hairdressing salon at Kenmore Plaza, about 1km up the road from the Kenmore roundabout and had left there before 8:00pm. IMO it's not unreasonable to think that Allison and GBC arranged to meet for a meal after her hair appointment, especially if they had a kid's free night. And for what it's worth and IMO the girls did not sleep at home on that Thursday night. That's my opinion and I'm sticking with it for now. Allison had a busy day ahead on the Friday and eating at one of the local restaurants would have been an easier option than going home to cook a meal. IMO. And this is irrespective of what state the marriage was in. IMO is was just a meal, not a romantic rendezvous.

Looking at this scenario it would place Allison's Prado in the vicinity of the Kenmore Plaza or the roundabout shopping centre. It is also feasible to think that GBC arrived to meet Allison in his Captiva. So now we have the two key players and their respective vehicles in the vicinity of so much Police investigation.

So what happened at the restaurant? It's been said that there was an altercation between Allison and GBC and it was caught on CCTV. Does this mean the altercation took place outside the restaurant? Or do restaurants now have CCTV indoors as well? Possible I suppose.

05-06-2012, 02:41 PM
BrookieLocal

Hi everyone, first time poster but had read all previous threads.
My friend works at the Hair Salon in Kenmore Plaza (for non-locals it is not the shopping centre at the roundabout but about 1km down the road), she told me Allison had her hair done on Thursday evening. All the staff were questioned the following morning. They were asked what Allison's demeanor was, what she said, what was she wearing, what time did she leave. My friend said she was happy and relaxed. She was discussing the conference which she was attending the following day. It was with Pathways, she was training to become a Pathways facilitator (works with small groups of children or one-on-one). My friend also mentioned Allison said the girls were at a sleep-over at the in-laws and she had a "night off". I know this conflicts with other info. She was not wearing her walking clothes. I didn't ask her what time Allison left, I presumed it was before 8pm and that's why the police changed the times, perhaps 8pm was the last time someone else besides GB-C saw her.
The staff were also questioned the Tuesday after Allison's body was found, they were asked more specifically about any marks, bruises or scratches she had on her neck, chest, arms and hands.

BBM

Speculation on my part.

Allison and GBC had an argument at the restaurant. (The catyist of the argument may never be known - money, mistress, divorce, children etc.). The dinner turned to crap and they headed home in their respective vehicles where the argument escalated. I don't think that Allison was killed near the restaurant/roundabout or in a carpark. The reason being is that Allison's hairdresser said that she was not wearing her walking clothes. So at some stage Allison changed into her walking gear. Why? When her body was found, she was wearing the walking clothes that GBC had described. Did she in fact decide to go for a walk to cool off and get away from GBC's tirade? I've never gone with the "she went for a walk and didn't come back" scenario but who's to know? Maybe she did go for a walk to cool off. Allison's dismissal of GBC may have infuriated him and he grabbed her, punched her, pushed her down the front stairs (or other excessive physical violence ensued), resulting in a fatal head injury or broken neck. He initially may have thought that Allison was unconscious and then realised he'd killed her. The FW doesn't call any emergency services because it's all about him. "I'm in a little bit of trouble now." He phones the accomplice who duly arrives and confirms that Allison is indeed dead and they need to get rid of the body. They load Allison's body into the Prado with accomplice behind the wheel. GBC drives his car and they head off to a place they know well to dump Allison's body. They weren't thinking that this place would ever be associated with them because they didn't expect Allison to be found.

This is all my opinion and it may change tomorrow. That's my prerogative, I'm a woman. Please feel free to pick holes in this scenario or add to it.