Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 #18

[Keentoknow]

Exactly! So really the only significant part of the damage is the dent in the front panel on the left side near the lights - which is what took the initial impact. IMO this damage is not like the damage to the red car someone posted - the position in some ways yes, but the difference is the indentation on the white car. When you hit a nonfixed object it is a different type of damaged to something fixed, there are more likely to be cracks as the main damage, whereas with a hard, fixed object there is more likely to be an indentation. The Prado has a deep indentation, it looks to me it could be consistent with hitting the edge of the guard rail near the small open area (on the rhs outbound) near the Kholo bridge. It is on the correct side for that to occur. Those guard rails are pretty strong so don't exhibit the same type of damage as a car - they are made of stronger stuff than car panels.

I'm thinking the murderer could have had his head lights off to avoid being noticed, and as he was also panicked, he didn't slow down quick enough and ended up crashing into the guard rail when he was about to stop. Would have been totally freaked and erratic as a result. Could have been he was going to throw the body over and parked right there, or going to drive into the verge area to take the body down the slope and place under bridge, and misjudged as he was driving in.

Someone else also speculated that maybe this was why the other vehicle was involved, as the murderer had to call someone to tow him back home. Maybe initially the damage was more pushed into the right front wheel, making it difficult to drive without interference. Perhaps that part of the panel was later pulled away from the wheel, making it driveable, but at the time, with time running out, and the murderer being in a panic and wanting to get away from the body disposal area, he did not think or have the ability to prise the crushed panel away from the wheel.

So maybe this car damage was the only reason someone else was involved? Perhaps they weren't going to be, and another thought - if the body had already been disposed of, maybe that person was only told by the murderer he was out looking for Allison? The penny may have dropped since, but at the time maybe that's how it was.

This would explain the sighting of the vehicles very close together, and could also explain the 'out of place' activity at the Kenmore roundabout ie a car being towed.

Can anyone recall when the sighting of the vehicles close together at Anstead was supposed to have occurred? For some reason i was thinking it was 4am, because at the time I thought - they are cutting it fine as there would definitely be more than the odd car a few times an hour. After 5am there would be a light but regular number of cars coming through.

Apologies if others have posted similar ideas - i have got very behind in the last few days due to work, and dont have time to read every post ahead before posting.

Thanks itsavibe.

Should he have made this call on his phone it is easily traced by the CIB. They would now have records of the time, place and to whom the calls were made to.

Should you ever read "The Society Murders" by Hillary Bonney. You will see there amongst other things that the Victorian CIB traced his moves with his bank card. Eg Garage fuel, and where he bought the shovel to bury them with.

 

[Sheerluck Holmes]

My question Sheerluck Holmes is how do you know for fact that all of these statements are true? How does any one of us know how cooperative or not this man has been to the police? People have indicated that he didn't attend the search base at the show grounds. Maybe that part is true. How do we know that he wasn't in touch by phone with people who were at the show grounds at this time or whether there was some other reason for him to not attend there? How do we know that he is not in deep personal grief in the privacy of his home? How do we know that he resisted his cars being forensically tested or resisted searches of his home etc? Where is the evidence for these statements?

My other point is that it is for the judicial system, through the police and courts to pronounce judgement of someone. A person's guilt or innocence shouldn't be decided by public poll. Until the judicial system identifies who the guilty people are, the public's perception should be irrelevant....the public don't have all of the facts. The perpetrators will be answerable to the public at the time a conviction is made. Until then we need to be patient.

Personally I find it a poor reflection on our society if these things are decided by brief media snippets of people combined with tidbits of local gossip. Allison deserves the judicial system to be thorough in ensuring they convict the right person(s). She would want no less. It also goes to say that all of her family including her in-laws deserve respect for her sake, the sake of her daughters and for the sake of all of the family. This is people's lives we are talking about. There is a lot at stake. Yes, I know, an innocent woman has lost her life......but let's make sure we make the right people pay for this horrid crime. There is too much at stake if the wrong people are charged. Imagine the loss to those girls if public opinion swayed and their father was charged and he was in fact innocent after all. Let's honour Allison and her daughters by at least being respectful of all members of her family while we wait for charges to be laid. Obviously when the person is charged they will deservedly face the full force of the law regardless of whether they are family or not.

I can understand why many people have come to the conclusion that they have but I for one don't believe that we have enough facts to pronounce guilt beyond reasonable doubt..........because of course we are rightly not privy to everything that the police know. In the meantime we need to respect people's individual ways of dealing with things. If I was in the situation that this family was in I would want that respect and lack of judgement whilst an investigation was occurring. We live in Australia...a very culturally diverse country. We should be respectful of individual difference. We should also uphold the right to justice and a fair trial too of course. Along with all of this we as Aussies are rightly intolerant of murder and other horrid crimes. However, despite our justified intolerance of such a horrid crime we should not forget our values in regards to justice, a fair trial and respecting individual difference in people's response to situations.

This is all just my opinion as I wait for justice to prevail for Allison and her family.

BBM I dont know these statements are true, I have not said they are true. I am only going on the information/lack of information I have on hand which leads me to my opinion on who committed this crime. I have stated that this is my opinion.

I agree with you that we dont have all the information needed to make an informed decision about this case and it should be left to the Police and the Justice System and until all the facts about this case comes out in a Court no one can say anyone is guilty beyond reasonable doubt.

When I have all the facts then I will be able to make a unbiased opinion based on those facts. Until then I will have the opinion I have now.

 

[willough]

Thanks itsavibe.

Should he have made this call on his phone it is easily traced by the CIB. They would now have records of the time, place and to whom the calls were made to.

Should you ever read "The Society Murders" by Hillary Bonney. You will see there amongst other things that the Victorian CIB traced his moves with his bank card. Eg Garage fuel, and where he bought the shovel to bury them with.

Yep....and he hired a trailer too.

 

[Keentoknow]

Yep....and he hired a trailer too.

That reminds me GBC at one time was supposed to have used a trailer as well.????????

 

[willough]

That reminds me GBC at one time was supposed to have used a trailer as well.????????

Yep....lol.....That's another one CC can add to the list Big bright yellow one.

If I recall, I only ever saw a photo of the axle, and never even saw the entire trailer..

 

[Barram5]

I thought I would repost the list from thread 2# originaly posted by KEYBOREDOM it contains facts and then some rumour/ hearsay etc

From maverick and/or media

- Gerard Baden-Clay maintains he last saw his wife at 10pm - she was watching TV
- Gerard Baden-Clay behaved unusually during the search for his wife
- Gerard Baden-Clay engaged legal representation early in the investigation, well before there was any sign Allison would be found
- GBC had a scratch on his face
- Police are very interesting in retrieving Allison's mobile phone (expected to be somewhere within 150m of her home based on the last info provided by 'someone' - most likely the phone network provider)
- Police stated a canoeist discovered Allison's body - this is likely to be fact, as they don't/can't make false statements to the media/public
- Activity (most likely vehicle movement) occurred around the Kenmore Roundabout that is of interest to police
- Allison's Holden Captiva and its movements are of interest
- Any movement of the family Toyota Prado with signage on rear is of interest (in my opinion it's the Captiva they suspect was involved)
- Allison had plans for the next day and would (logically) have had a lot of the children's gear and needs pre-organised for school and planned sleepover
- Allison's body was found underneath the Kholo creek bridge, not where it would have landed if thrown from the edge (but may have been moved in the tidal or floodwater)
- Police showed interest in, and searched, the scouting grounds and surrounding areas upstream from where Allison's body was found
- GBC business was in financial trouble and he recently borrowed $300k from partners
- the police have/had GBC's mobile phone

Other facts or missing info
- The police have records of texts sent by GBC on the night (from Maverick, not media)
- Neighbours overheard a disturbance in Allison's home on the night she disappered (correct me if I'm wrong but I haven't seen this reported anywhere)
- There was a lot of rain in the couple of days before Allison was found - mixed reports on how fast or high the creek was flowing and whether the floodwater could have transported Allison's body
- There is no mention Allison was wearing running shoes, or any mention that's what GBC said she was wearing at 10pm
- Allison was found wearing the clothes (or something like the clothes) someone described she would be wearing - most likely GBC. He could have assumed this by guessing she was wearing her usual walking outfit or by clothes missing from her room/wardrobe
- the children were told something strange by the father when they realised their mother was missing (only Maverick has mentioned this, it is not reported in media, and not substantiated)
- screams happened 2.5-4 km away from Allison's home on the night she disappeared, most likely put down to noisy teens (and this is quite likely given the behaviour of teens in our area)
- there was something found in the rear of one of the cars (info from Maverick only, not further substantiated); highly unlikely the cars would have been returned to the family if there was any form of evidence discovered, so unsure if this is accurate

Possible info (based on local jungle drums, speculation and reading into media reports - complete conjecture really) :
- A number of arguments have been overheard in the house in the past
- GBC had scratches on his chest (this has been mentioned on here and is doing the rounds of the local gossip but has not been substantiated)
- GBC had been having an affair previously
- he may have still been 'acting suspiciously'
- he treated Allison badly
- there may have been an AVO/DVO involved
- Allison's car may have been left at the showgrounds (nothing stated by police except at least one local claims this is what they were told)
- the house was a mess (holes in walls etc) - have only heard this from one local
- Allison's family dislike Gerard Baden-Clay's family (if this is the case, completely understandable IMO)
** NOTE ALL THE ABOVE 'possible info' - based on verbal conjecture by locals in the area or posted on here identifying themselves as people in the know - therefore should be taken with a grain of salt

 

[possumheart]

That reminds me GBC at one time was supposed to have used a trailer as well.????????

Find me a 41 year-old Aussie male who hasn't ...

 

[marlywings]

*** REVISED RUMOUR LIST ***

Originally Posted by CaseClosed
In order to clarify for some posters:

Here is a list of all the rumours (i.e. not reported by MSM):

- Police were at the family home the night before her disappearance (*)
- Lawyer present when police arrived at family home (*)
- Children were home and said something odd to police (*)
- Victim was on medication for depression (*)
- Victim could not cope at some stage due to depression / needed GBC's help daily (*)
- DV / broken arm / fallen down stairs, etc.
- COD is strangulation / bath water in her lungs
- Body found with missing limbs / chains, etc.
- Fight at a restaurant
- Chains missing from Coles / construction site
- Murder for hire by triads / bikes / loan sharks, etc.
- NBC sitting at bus stop in the middle of the night
- NBC looking frail / could have dementia
- Second or more mistresses
- Blood found in one of the family cars
- Scratches on GBC's chest / bruises on chest, etc.
- NBC / GBC washing cars Friday morning
- Family home with windows boarded up
- Prado damaged prior to her disappearance (*)
- Evidence of google searches in computers about masking DNA / accessing Life insurance (*)
- Tattooed man with a white van, with long blond hair, wearing gardening gloves seen near Kohlo bridge (*)

(*) Added

Feel free to add / correct. THE ABOVE ARE ALL RUMOURS!

- Allison went for a walk on the night and she never came home, as her body had been knocked off a bridge in the dark by a drunk driver
- pregnant mistress

 

[Elspeth]

I cannot begin to imagine what this family is going through especially the little girls. There has been so much speculation and very little real proof of what really occurred. Just because someone appears to be guilty it does not necessarily make it so in any way until someone is charged. Just hope it is very soon for her loved ones.

I am thinking of Vincent Tabak the animal who murdered Joanna Yeates in December 2010. His behaviour was completely opposite to GBC in every way. He was out there at all times assisting the police and acting the concerned citizen even to the extent it was on his evidence of manipulating and misleading the police that the landlord of the flats was wrongfully arrested. VT was considered to be quiet and mild-mannered, perfect citizen even by the father (top lawyer) of his girlfriend of 3 years who he was planning to marry.
I keep relating to this case as I was over there at this time and it was emblazoned in all the tabloids constantly. Joanna's parents were wonderful people just like the Dickies and also by sheer coincidence Joanna's birthday was the 19th April the same date Allison disappeared.
On the night Joanna was murdered she had walked home after a work function. Her boyfriend was away for the weekend visiting his parents and VT's girlfriend was at a work Xmas party.
VT and his girlfriend lived in the next door flat to JY and her boyfriend. The couples had not met each other because of separate entrances to these old georgian flats for privacy.

It is unsure how VT gained entry to her flat but in the trial it was found that she was murdered very soon after arriving home. Screams were also heard by several people but it was put down to someone at a party. At his trial he tried to say that she had flirted with him and when he went to kiss her, she started screaming so he strangled her.

The shocking thing is that this animal then carried her back to his flat, put her in his bicycle bag, put her in the back of his car and went late night shopping to provide an alibi with CCTV cameras, he also rung his girlfriend to say he would be there to collect her from the party. All this time Joanna was dead in the back of his car.

He then went to a secluded country road, attempted to throw her body over a concrete wall but must have been disturbed so just left her to be found covered in snow/leaves on Xmas Day 8 days later. Then he just calmly drove to collect his girlfriend and continued his life/work as normal.

The whole time until his arrest he went to work parties, Xmas with his future in laws, a trip back to his family in the Netherlands etc. The whole time pretending to be distressed and so concerned about what had occurred. No one picked him as he appeared to be the perfect quiet person so in love with his girlfriend.

At the trial it was later found that on work trips away he picked up hookers and was into pornography including strangulation videos of young blonde women like Joanna.

Because her body was frozen the autopsy was able to prove that she actually had 43 marks on her body including a broken nose where she had fought to live. He was 6'4'' and she was 5'4''.

Writing this in a hurry so hope it all makes sense but because of the way VT acted I really do not believe one can ever tell what a person really is like.. It was also mentioned the way he dumped Joanna's body was from a person with no human emotion whatsoever. The fact he fooled so many people including the police and his girlfriends lawyer father goes to show you cannot pick animals such as this. So creepy...

 

[Pseudonym]

Hi all,
I think the depression concept was thrown into the ring to make people think that Allison had disappeared of her own free will . Fits in with the going for a walk and not returning theory.She may have suffered from depression or just struggled with the everyday hassles many of us have ; marriage difficulties , severe financial strain ,deciding upon the next stage of her life now that all kids are at school. I am not in any way demeaning the issue of depression but i think it was conveniently used. Many of my friends thought it was very possible that she just took off and possibly killed herself. That angered me for many reasons. It highlighted depression for the wrong reason , and what sort of legacy does it leave for her children ,if they believe "mummy had depression and just left us ".I wonder if that depression theory was preplanned or worked out in the early hours of April 20 with the BCs????????

 

[willough]

Find me a 41 year-old Aussie male who hasn't ...

LOL....I think keentoknow, meant use trailer to dump Allison.

I doubt many 41 year old have attempted that feat.

 

[Keentoknow]

Find me a 41 year-old Aussie male who hasn't ...

It should have read....Rumor Used trailer to transport body.????? Not enough detail.

 

[willough]

It should have read....Rumor Used trailer to transport body.????? Not enough detail.

C'mon now....You better start lifting your game... :floorlaugh:

 

[ollijack]

I cannot begin to imagine what this family is going through especially the little girls. There has been so much speculation and very little real proof of what really occurred. Just because someone appears to be guilty it does not necessarily make it so in any way until someone is charged. Just hope it is very soon for her loved ones.

I am thinking of Vincent Tabak the animal who murdered Joanna Yeates in December 2010. His behaviour was completely opposite to GBC in every way. He was out there at all times assisting the police and acting the concerned citizen even to the extent it was on his evidence of manipulating and misleading the police that the landlord of the flats was wrongfully arrested. VT was considered to be quiet and mild-mannered, perfect citizen even by the father (top lawyer) of his girlfriend of 3 years who he was planning to marry.
I keep relating to this case as I was over there at this time and it was emblazoned in all the tabloids constantly. Joanna's parents were wonderful people just like the Dickies and also by sheer coincidence Joanna's birthday was the 19th April the same date Allison disappeared.
On the night Joanna was murdered she had walked home after a work function. Her boyfriend was away for the weekend visiting his parents and VT's girlfriend was at a work Xmas party.
VT and his girlfriend lived in the next door flat to JY and her boyfriend. The couples had not met each other because of separate entrances to these old georgian flats for privacy.

It is unsure how VT gained entry to her flat but in the trial it was found that she was murdered very soon after arriving home. Screams were also heard by several people but it was put down to someone at a party. At his trial he tried to say that she had flirted with him and when he went to kiss her, she started screaming so he strangled her.

The shocking thing is that this animal then carried her back to his flat, put her in his bicycle bag, put her in the back of his car and went late night shopping to provide an alibi with CCTV cameras, he also rung his girlfriend to say he would be there to collect her from the party. All this time Joanna was dead in the back of his car.

He then went to a secluded country road, attempted to throw her body over a concrete wall but must have been disturbed so just left her to be found covered in snow/leaves on Xmas Day 8 days later. Then he just calmly drove to collect his girlfriend and continued his life/work as normal.

The whole time until his arrest he went to work parties, Xmas with his future in laws, a trip back to his family in the Netherlands etc. The whole time pretending to be distressed and so concerned about what had occurred. No one picked him as he appeared to be the perfect quiet person so in love with his girlfriend.

At the trial it was later found that on work trips away he picked up hookers and was into pornography including strangulation videos of young blonde women like Joanna.

Because her body was frozen the autopsy was able to prove that she actually had 43 marks on her body including a broken nose where she had fought to live. He was 6'4'' and she was 5'4''.

Writing this in a hurry so hope it all makes sense but because of the way VT acted I really do not believe one can ever tell what a person really is like.. It was also mentioned the way he dumped Joanna's body was from a person with no human emotion whatsoever. The fact he fooled so many people including the police and his girlfriends lawyer father goes to show you cannot pick animals such as this. So creepy...

You are right....it is Creepy.....I find GBC & his father NBC Creepy...female intuition? I dont know....GBC is just not (right) somehow.... :juggle:

 

[Mani]

- Allison went for a walk on the night and she never came home, as her body had been knocked off a bridge in the dark by a drunk driver
- pregnant mistress

:yes:That's a lotta rumours!:hypno: (IMO)

How does this list compare to the facts?

 

[spratsmum]

Hi Everyone

i think we are all suffering from frustration at the moment, to many of us the perpetrator seemed so very logically and we wondered why QPS didn't act on what we thought was incriminating evidence. Obviously it is not that clear cut and I thank case closed for her great work on doing the facts vs rumour lists. Like in the community lots of rumours on this site have become reality in our minds. A friend of mine who lives at Fig Tree Pocket likened Brookfield at present to "Midsommer Murders" LOL.

We are all decent sensible people on here, lets read the list of Case Closed and realise how little we do know and try to stay within some bounds of realism. It is really useless starting rumours that are unfounded and possibly damaging.

Happy Queensland Day Everyone!! What a perfect Queensland winters day and although I would love Australia to be a republic, I am so happy the Queen looks like she has had a great few days enjoying her jubilee milestone. It does look sad though, on the palace balcony scene to not see the Duke of Edinburgh - his health seems to be failing.

this has been written with the best intentions and is my opinion only!!

 

[Mani]

You are right....it is Creepy.....I find GBC & his father NBC Creepy...female intuition? I dont know....GBC is just not (right) somehow.... :juggle:

I find Robbie Williams creepy, don't ask me why, he is adored by millions of fans around the world but to me, he is creepy! But I don't know the man, I don't spend time with the man, it's just a feeling I get when I watch him sing on the tele.

Female intuition is pretty much on the money IMO.

I used to think Lindy Chamberlain came across as emotionally cold but I have changed my mind in recent years after having seen interviews with her concerning her baby daughter's death.

 

[Elspeth]

You are right....it is Creepy.....I find GBC & his father NBC Creepy...female intuition? I dont know....GBC is just not (right) somehow.... :juggle:

Of course I respect your opinion...but in this instance Vincent Tabak did not appear creepy to anyone including the media, police, work associates etc even his own family were completely unaware of his dark evil side. He never put a foot wrong with his behaviour at any time (even prior to the murder) always acting so concerned behind his quiet mild-mannered outer persona. He certainly did not hide away just the opposite was always discussing the murder at every opportunity.

 

[ollijack]

I'm embarrassed....I know feeling creepy about someone doesn't make them a murderer.....oh dear.....

 

[Keentoknow]

Find me a 41 year-old Aussie male who hasn't ...

Ohhhhhh not in the trailer. Another rumor...:doorhide:

Unless we were standing at the end of the bed and saw these things.....we cannot say he had a mistress either.

Gee not many things we can say really.....Maybe buy a gluestick and use it for lip balm.
:floorlaugh: