Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #3

[Limaes]

may not be pre meditated - just took advantage of the situation

Depends whose idea the sleepover was. If it wasn't Allison's then it looks dubious. Her friend knew about the sleepover, I wonder if she told her whose idea it was.

 

[Couldbe]

...........
5. About the partner and the $300,000 loan – this report reads “His company, Settle Westside, took out a $300,000 loan with a former business partner in December 2011. The business partner now works for a competing real estate agency.”

http://www.news.com.au/life-and-career-built-on-honesty/story-e6freoof-1226340594889

I think we may all be confusing the 'business partner' with the 'mistress' - they could be 2 different people.....unless it has been reported somewhere??
...............

Lots to become confused about - even the Media reporting is quite different:-

See link: http://www.news.com.au/life-and-career-built-on-honesty/story-e6freoof-1226340594889
“His company, Settle Westside, took out a $300,000 loan with a former business partner in December 2011. The business partner now works for a competing real estate agency.” -
Different Media info:-
See link: http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...usiness-suffered/story-e6freoof-1226344121450 which says:
'Days before Christmas, Mr Baden-Clay took out a $300,000 loan for one of his companies from two partners who exited the business the same day.

A former colleague said the venture "should have worked and it could have worked, but it didn't''.

"There was a dramatic decline ... the market caused some financial issues as well,'' the former colleague said.'

 

[tiff07]

Wow, you have all been busy. Loads of great reading here to catch up on. Let's hope the police can break Gerard soon, or get the break they need by a witness coming forward re the roundabout. I really believe they are employing this tactic because they know what he did and why he did it and if they can refute his story and place him at the roundabout then he might finally crack.

 

[CaseClosed]

I guess we can now ascertain that "opportunity" was definitely there, without him having to worry about the children and what they could hear/see. Now we need to establish the "motive", which I don't believe to be business related.

 

[itsthevibe]

Hey sleuthers

I have just come on after going to bed at 4am last time and wow - once again more useful and brilliant postings! Do i read everything or just comment as i go along. I think the latter - it's easier and doesnt require so much reading first that there's no time to reply! I'm sure there are many who can relate. I can see otherwise i will never get some of my thoughts out. Apologies if anything i say is repetition of other forward posts or whatever. i have read 3 pages to at least get familiar.

I can only concur with Keyboredom on the long summation - brilliant, I think this advances the thinking on the case and is beneficial as a reference. Combine this with the post of Neuromancer on narcissism and it cements a lot of things.

A few thoughts come to mind to comment on so far -

Re the roundabout I think it's possible, if Allison was murdered at home, the murderer has taken her body one way to the Kholo Bridge to dispose of it, and returned the other way. I think this would be done to avoid suspicion. It would just be a psychological device in the murderers mind, but I think when he is going to dispose of the body, he is in a panic, not wanting to be detected and terrified someone will see something, stop him or whatever. So possibly he drives the back way. But after disposing of the body and getting in the car unseen, as he drives along he starts to calm a little and think a bit straighter. He goes along Mt Crosby Road, then Moggill Road towards Kenmore, passing the start of Rafting Ground Road opposite Rafting Ground Park. By this time he's realised he needs to do something with her mobile phone which he has taken from the house when he is removing the body. He dumps it along the way, maybe at the back of Rafting Ground Park, or somewhere near there off the main drag (this fits with the area it was triangulated to) and then continues to Kenmore and goes through the roundabout and on to Brookfield, by this time feeling a bit less suspicious looking.

Timing - Well I think it the first part of it happened in the space of about 2 hours. He was perhaps going through the roundabout between 11.30pm and midnight. I am also wondering something else - that he possibly went out a 2nd time, maybe to dispose of the mobile phone then and possibly other things - not sure what, but anything else incriminating. So he killed her, disposed of the body, was high on adrenalin and incredibly panicky. But once he had got back home, he had some time to calm down and think. Then maybe do a bit of cleaning up and tidying, and work out his plan, and removing items from the home would have been part of it. So it's possible the roundabout info could involve more than one trip.

I also agree the route taken the first time could have been in reverse, due to the noisy party happening in the area, and deciding to roll the car down the hill towards Kenmore when leaving so as not to alert neighbours.

Going back to the narcissism and Keyboredoms summation, I can identify with it very closely, including the part which leads to the actual killing. This is exactly how it happens - and I know because it almost happened to me.

 

[possumheart]

I guess we can now ascertain that "opportunity" was definitely there, without him having to worry about the children and what they could hear/see. Now we need to establish the "motive", which I don't believe to be business related.

Perhaps she had packed her bags and was planning on leaving with the children on a day in the near future and he discovered. Purely speculation but it is what I dreamt last night ...

 

[coolcat]

Hi everyone, first time poster but had read all previous threads.
My friend works at the Hair Salon in Kenmore Plaza (for non-locals it is not the shopping centre at the roundabout but about 1km down the road), she told me Allison had her hair done on Thursday evening. All the staff were questioned the following morning. They were asked what Allison's demeanor was, what she said, what was she wearing, what time did she leave. My friend said she was happy and relaxed. She was discussing the conference which she was attending the following day. It was with Pathways, she was training to become a Pathways facilitator (works with small groups of children or one-on-one). My friend also mentioned Allison said the girls were at a sleep-over at the in-laws and she had a "night off". I know this conflicts with other info. She was not wearing her walking clothes. I didn't ask her what time Allison left, I presumed it was before 8pm and that's why the police changed the times, perhaps 8pm was the last time someone else besides GB-C saw her.
The staff were also questioned the Tuesday after Allison's body was found, they were asked more specifically about any marks, bruises or scratches she had on her neck, chest, arms and hands.

WOW!! This blows the lid off alot of theories if in fact it is all correct info...Maybe GBC was waiting for her at that round about knowing she was at the hairdresser's because he didn't need to be at home with kids because they were at his parents......Another interesting fact...Which leads me to believe the BC Snr's know more then they are telling.

Why were the kids at the in laws on a school night.....How early did ABC plan to leave for Conference?

I still need to know what GBC had done all day Thursday...I really woud like to know what his movements were and who he seen and where he was and better still did it involve his Father?

Sorry about mssing letters and incorrect spelling my keyboard needs replacing and I get a bit carried away with typing I forget to look at screen.

 

[Curiousasacat]

So the latest news.com.au have updated their news report.
The only real update I noticed was a change in wording to "Members of the public who saw anything out of place on the night of Mrs Baden-Clay's disappearance have been urged to come forward.

So we need to think of what we would imagine to be out of place??

 

[minni]

driving thru macca's half an hour ago, I noticed the sign on the window says THIS STORE IS PROTECTED BY 24 HOUR VIDEO SURVEILANCE.......which has got me excited and I am wondering if the McDonalds at the roundabout is 24 hour? and if so it might capture some of Moggill Road? It would also place people at the roundabout (not suspects, just some that might not have come forward because they thought they had nothing to offer) also shift changes etc

 

[Sprinter]

Hi everyone, first time poster but had read all previous threads.
My friend works at the Hair Salon in Kenmore Plaza (for non-locals it is not the shopping centre at the roundabout but about 1km down the road), she told me Allison had her hair done on Thursday evening. All the staff were questioned the following morning. They were asked what Allison's demeanor was, what she said, what was she wearing, what time did she leave. My friend said she was happy and relaxed. She was discussing the conference which she was attending the following day. It was with Pathways, she was training to become a Pathways facilitator (works with small groups of children or one-on-one). My friend also mentioned Allison said the girls were at a sleep-over at the in-laws and she had a "night off". I know this conflicts with other info. She was not wearing her walking clothes. I didn't ask her what time Allison left, I presumed it was before 8pm and that's why the police changed the times, perhaps 8pm was the last time someone else besides GB-C saw her.
The staff were also questioned the Tuesday after Allison's body was found, they were asked more specifically about any marks, bruises or scratches she had on her neck, chest, arms and hands.

This could explain a few things, police could have asked where the girls were and also if there had been an early AVO 3 months earlier and if they were aware of this,
would that be enough to prompt an investigation more quickly than waiting the usual 24 hrs. Also ABC and GBC could have had an argument and without the girls being there to keep it more restrained the argument got out of control.

 

[BrookieLocal]

Don't forget B-C Snr was in the Special Forces in Zimbabwe, if anyone you know how to keep calm in a situation (dead wife) then it would be him. I also wondered if GB-C was driving towards to roundabout so he could meet his Dad at the shopping centre (non-locals - there is an entrance to the shopping centre a few metres before the roundabout). Perhaps they transferred Allison's body into "Bwana" car and B-C Snr disposed of the body so GB-C could confidently tell police he did not know where Allison was. ?

 

[Nads]

It changes a lot, and increases the number of possible scenarios if the girls were sleeping over on the Thursday night, like the poster with the hairdresser friends said.

Is the father's car exactly the same as GBC's? Ie are they matching work cars? I have heard rumours of the father having scratches on him as well. Purely conjecture and not reliable though!

 

[Elspeth]

I have absolutely no idea who is guilty as personally I feel one can only speculate on the *public* media releases given by the police to the press as nothing else is a *completely positive report* unless it has come directly through the police as a press release to the public via the media...

A couple of years ago in the UK a young woman by the name of Joanna Yeates went missing and eventually was found murdered. Her landlord at the time was arrested, his car seized etc resulting in his being completely and terribly villified as guilty in the press to such an extent that the life he once had could never be the same again. He turned out to be completely innocent in every way and her murderer proved to be the most unlikely suspect.

Mention this because unless one was there we simply do not know and it is only speculation until the police find the answers which I hope is very soon for the sake of her grieving loved ones.

 

[coolcat]

With the info BrookieLocal has provided, I am now sure she did not go for a walk either that night or the next morning. No woman who just had her hair done for the next day conference would go out for a walk afterwards! I believe she was dressed in sports gear after the fact!

Me Too!

Another theory is that GBC suggested that they go for a walk together ths is fesable given that the kids may have been at BC Snr's...Perhaps he killed er on the walk and then the cover up happened proceeding through out the night??....Just a thought...I might add though, that with Brookies new info a lot of theories are possible now considering the children were not actually home??
There was no reason for her to rush home...Was she called/texted on her iphone and asked to meet someone somewhere perhaps?

 

[Curiousasacat]

I must have missed this article, a link for anyone who didn't see it either.

Interesting article QT about Allison. Such a lovely,innocent looking picture of her.

http://www.qt.com.au/story/2012/05/04/happy-and-successful-a-portrait-of-allison/

 

[Humdinger]

Don't forget B-C Snr was in the Special Forces in Zimbabwe, if anyone you know how to keep calm in a situation (dead wife) then it would be him. I also wondered if GB-C was driving towards to roundabout so he could meet his Dad at the shopping centre (non-locals - there is an entrance to the shopping centre a few metres before the roundabout). Perhaps they transferred Allison's body into "Bwana" car and B-C Snr disposed of the body so GB-C could confidently tell police he did not know where Allison was. ?

Bwana car was never checked was it?
This would make complete sense, the overbearing father helping the 'useless' son. I'd imagine if GBC told BC snr what had happened that BC snr would take over.
But I can't imagine transferring a body in public though.

 

[coolcat]

maybe they are odd but not guilty - there is no indication they were involved .. other than supporting their son after the event ...

Sorry...I should of said IMO because it is only my opinion that I believe they are covering for their son and IMO I think they know what hs happened..........IMO!

 

[dansw]

WOW!! This blows the lid off alot of theories if in fact it is all correct info...Maybe GBC was waiting for her at that round about knowing she was at the hairdresser's because he didn't need to be at home with kids because they were at his parents......Another interesting fact...Which leads me to believe the BC Snr's know more then they are telling.

Why were the kids at the in laws on a school night.....How early did ABC plan to leave for Conference?

I still need to know what GBC had done all day Thursday...I really woud like to know what his movements were and who he seen and where he was and better still did it involve his Father?

Sorry about mssing letters and incorrect spelling my keyboard needs replacing and I get a bit carried away with typing I forget to look at screen.

Maybe there was a family birthday or family function at the Baden Clays? Gerard may have been there for most of the night. Hence the kids going there on a school night. Its always easier to leave the kids in their own beds on school days! Plus The sister was in town from Townsville and took the kids to school someone said......

 

[AllyG]

This post is not just a response to AllyG's post above, I am addressing anyone who thinks that some or all of GBC'c bad or weird behaviour was caused by a "breakdown" or psychiatric medication. I feel passionate about this topic. But, It's hard to know where to start.

Anyone who had committed a heinous crime like this one - particularly if he feels the law breathing down his neck is likely to feel somewhat anxious, be off their tucker, sleep badly, etc. This does not mean that he is mentally ill. In fact, it would be odd if he did feel fine.

A lot of people would be very happy if their mental health problems could be managed with a 2-day admission to a psych ward. Off the top of my head, I can't say what % of Australians from all walks of life take antidepressents, but it is very high and includes many many people who are able to live demanding and productive lives because of antidepressents - not despite them.

So pleeease think long & hard before tarnishing the image of people with genuine mental illness by lumping them in the same boat as GBC.

I actually suffer from mental health issues, so meant no disrespect by that comment. Apologies if it were taken this way. I just know that when I have started taking new medication that sometimes it can mess me up. Make it hard to show emotion, hard to function, etc. So the medication may have affected the way he reacted in front of the cameras.

At no time did I suggest that 2 days in a hospital would fix a mental health issue. Otherwise I'd have admitted myself so that I hadn't suffered from my illness for more than half of my life.

 

[minni]

I dont understand how GBC supposedly told the girls something unusual about their mother, when they weren't at the house with him?