Deceased/Not Found Australia - Cheryl Grimmer, 3, Fairy Meadow Beach, NSW, 12 Jan 1970

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SouthAussie said:
Good point. He didn't say he didn't do it ... he said he did do it.

So what did they think? A troubled boy looking for attention? Or were they trying to 'protect' the boys home from scandal. As they did with so many institutions back then, when child abuse was reported and dismissed. :shakehead:
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It seems the police had a firm eye on the adult 'peeper' right up to his death in 1995.

Perhaps the boy wanted out of the home and hoped claiming to have taken Cheryl would send him to adult prison.
 
This 5 year name suppression is really bothering me. Especially as little Cheryl's name is already splashed everywhere, and her brothers are speaking out, so it is not to protect them.

So I looked up the Evidence Act about name suppression.

Suppression orders

(1) Where a court is satisfied that a suppression order should be made—

(a) to prevent prejudice to the proper administration of justice; or
(b) to prevent undue hardship—

(i) to an alleged victim of crime; or
(ii) to a witness or potential witness in civil or criminal proceedings who is not a party to those proceedings; or
(iii) to a child

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/sa/consol_act/ea192980/s69a.html
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And there is this ... albeit from a NZ article

.... although name suppression is hard to get as a general rule, there are many factors why it might be awarded.

If there are children involved; the victim's name may be brought to light; if there are mental health issues; the family of the accused is ignorant of the offending; naming the accused might cause extreme hardship; the accused is under 17; safety is at risk; or it’s sexual offending.

http://thewireless.co.nz/articles/what-you-need-to-know-about-name-suppression
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The British media have given a little more info on the man, he is believed to be a father of adult children. The shock and upheaval for his family at this moment! At least they'd be relieved and spared public scrutiny with the 5 yr suppression even though I don't believe he deserves it. If he's found guilty, he should be named!


The arrest of the 63-year-old man – now a father who reportedly works as a security guard in Melbourne –
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...n-police-arrest-man-girls-1970-disappearance/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-Father-accused-murdering-Cheryl-Grimmer.html
 
PrimeSuspect said:
The British media have given a little more info on the man, he is believed to be a father of adult children. The shock and upheaval for his family at this moment! At least they'd be relieved and spared public scrutiny with the 5 yr suppression even though I don't believe he deserves it. If he's found guilty, he should be named!




http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...n-police-arrest-man-girls-1970-disappearance/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-Father-accused-murdering-Cheryl-Grimmer.html
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Yes, I agree with you. This undue 5 year suppression may be to protect his family ... and perhaps his grandchildren.
 
I have a question - why isn't he in handcuffs?? He's just walking unrestrained through the airport with his luggage like some regular traveler. I know it's probably not important but it bothers me - guess I just want him to feel as scared and nervous as possible.
 
SouthAussie said:
Yes, I agree with you. This undue 5 year suppression may be to protect his family ... and perhaps his grandchildren.
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Well . . . many criminals have families but their identities aren't suppressed. I'm thinking the suppression means either the accused has a relevant criminal record which is going to be difficult to keep secret even under sub judice, or there will be evidence of crimes against other children and protecting their identity means suppressing his.

Edit: perhaps the latter is what you meant.
 
JLZ said:
Well . . . many criminals have families but their identities aren't suppressed. I'm thinking the suppression means either the accused has a relevant criminal record which is going to be difficult to keep secret even under sub judice, or there will be evidence of crimes against other children and protecting their identity means suppressing his.

Edit: perhaps the latter is what you meant.
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I suspect there could be other crimes against children, due to his name change. And due to the 'quite horrific' still unknown details about this case. And due to his crime against Cheryl as a tiny, 3 year old. He may have learned how to become more cunning over time, and not had the knee jerk reaction of killing his victim - and disposing of her so that she was never found - to try to hide his crime.
 
symbah said:
Police received new information about Cheryl's suspected kidnapper, from witnesses now in their 50s that were 9, 10 and 12 at the time.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/man-charged-murder-brit-girl-10089723
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Perhaps other victims of his 'ways' at the time?

Choosing younger ones to vent his anger or 'troubles' upon? Because sexual abuse is really just violence in another form, or so the experts say.


‘personal violence’ offences in the Crimes Act 1900 (NSW) ..... The offences include, for example, murder, manslaughter, wounding or causing grievous bodily harm with intent, assault, sexual assault, kidnapping, child abduction and destroying or damaging property.
http://www.alrc.gov.au/publications...initions in Family Violence Legislation/curre
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I thought the media reported that there was a group from Mt Penang at the beach that day, so I don't know that there's any controversy about how he came to be there.

Without a body or.crime scene the only available source of information is him, so he must have made admissions.

If he hasn't gone on to reoffend between the ages of 16 and 63 he is a very real suicide risk at this point. I realise the psychiatric assistance thing is unpopular but if anyone wants him to be convicted and sentenced we should hope he gets it.

This is likely to be an even uglier and more tragic story when it all comes out. Children who commit those sorts of sexually violent offences have very often been on the receiving end of similar themselves. It doesn't excuse it, and a lot of people endure awful things as children without going on to do the same to other people, but it is very often something that has happened to the offender. It suggests to me that there were probably some pretty horrible things going on at Mt Penang as well.



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And before anyone jumps on my head, I'll repeat it doesn't excuse it. But it's one of the ways that people who abuse children cause horrible ripples outwards well beyond their own offending.


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SouthAussie said:
I suspect there could be other crimes against children, due to his name change. And due to the 'quite horrific' still unknown details about this case. And due to his crime against Cheryl as a tiny, 3 year old. He may have learned how to become more cunning over time, and not had the knee jerk reaction of killing his victim - and disposing of her so that she was never found - to try to hide his crime.
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I was thinking from the other direction; that if he was in Mt Penang for any length of time it wouldn't be surprising if he subsequently offended.

Where are these 'horrific details' coming from? I can only imagine from the boy's original confession.

Edit: to clarify, I haven't yet accepted that he's guilty.
 
anna.w said:
I thought the media reported that there was a group from Mt Penang at the beach that day, so I don't know that there's any controversy about how he came to be there.

Without a body or.crime scene the only available source of information is him, so he must have made admissions.

If he hasn't gone on to reoffend between the ages of 16 and 63 he is a very real suicide risk at this point. I realise the psychiatric assistance thing is unpopular but if anyone wants him to be convicted and sentenced we should hope he gets it.

This is likely to be an even uglier and more tragic story when it all comes out. Children who commit those sorts of sexually violent offences have very often been on the receiving end of similar themselves. It doesn't excuse it, and a lot of people endure awful things as children without going on to do the same to other people, but it is very often something that has happened to the offender. It suggests to me that there were probably some pretty horrible things going on at Mt Penang as well.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Anna, I haven't heard or read anything about boys from Mt Penang being at that beach the day Cheryl disappeared. It would be great to find that media source!
 
SouthAussie said:
Just a thought ... this man ^^^^, Alfred Jessop, was sentenced in 1978 and freed in 2003. He would be about/exactly 63 years old now (he was 55 at the time of the below article from 2009).

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...7974a309e?sv=36d0ca12eeea6b96e75a424e53b0b72f

There was a great hue and cry when he was released, as he was considered to be a time bomb. Did he change his name upon release, or while he was in jail?
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Alfred Jessop has been mentioned earlier in this thread. He does have different aliases. The thing thats strange with Jessop is that someone phoned Cheryl's parents after her disappearance and told them Cheryl had been strangled just as Jessop had strangled Vicki Barton.

Theres posts on page 1 and 2 of this thread re Jessop.
 
There were a number of confessions that never checked out. One particularly cruel phone call to the Grimmers was from a man saying he had strangled Cheryl the same way he claimed to have killed Vicki Barton, 8, in the Blue Mountains 18 months earlier.

A man arrested for Vicki Barton’s murder was never connected to Cheryl’s case.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...0/news-story/1d6595d62181be6efba2b7532fc1cda1
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Just a thought ... this man ^^^^, Alfred Jessop, was sentenced in 1978 and freed in 2003. He would be about/exactly 63 years old now (he was 55 at the time of the below article from 2009).

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...7974a309e?sv=36d0ca12eeea6b96e75a424e53b0b72f

There was a great hue and cry when he was released, as he was considered to be a time bomb. Did he change his name upon release, or while he was in jail?

Was he sent to Mt Penang as a troubled boy? Then later arrested for Vicki Barton's murder? I guess I don't know enough about Vicki Barton's murder, other than Vicki's and Cheryl's murders both happened in NSW not so very far away from each other ...


(Sorry symbah ... I deleted and added to my post, so your response now falls before my post ... oops! )
 
JLZ said:
I was thinking from the other direction; that if he was in Mt Penang for any length of time it wouldn't be surprising if he subsequently offended.

Where are these 'horrific details' coming from? I can only imagine from the boy's original confession.

Edit: to clarify, I haven't yet accepted that he's guilty.
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I wonder why he was sent to Mt Penang in the first place ... as a troubled child. I believe that meant some kind of serious concerns, back in that day.
 
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