Australia Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #10

[lampformypath]

Has anyone discussed previously the different CCTV footage that is on youtube by Flect? I mean at 19secs the changeover split screen, shows the top half of the screen with a guy walking walking towards Gugeri St .He appears to look like MM to me but with a black jacket or something over his left shoulder. He seems to have a turned in left foot when he walks. You see him walk quite quickly and turns left onto the main road. However this footage is in the documentary. The lower half of the transition shot shows the body of what appears to be MM with a black something thrown over his right shoulder. To me the left leg appears turned in also. He is just entering the doors of the club and you can see the guy at the pole with his arms crossed behind him. Given he entered the club and then managed to exit and be half way up the street within a 28second time frame suggests he just stood close by the door and looked around for a little bit and then walked past Jane again and up the street. I always just thought they had that one back shot of him and wondered where he went? It would explain them not having footage of him in the hotel if just looked in for a few seconds and left.
I can imagine MM has lost his mates and is drunkenly looking for them ( made a joke about it to Jane making her laugh?) or perhaps he is BRE and he went to get a car to pick her up?
I just didn't know there was footage showing him going into the hotel and walking away 28seconds later!!!
And in regards to the pigeon toe on the left leg of MM. Does anyone know if BRE has the same issue?????
I can spot these things pretty well as I was a dance and PE teacher.
I can't capture the split screen on my phone so can't screenshot it and add for you. I can't screenshot on my computer. If you have a look at Flect's footage on youtube you can try and pause it to get the split screen at 19secs just after MM interacts with Jane.
Sorry if this has been discussed already...surely it has but please fill me in on previous discussion. I can't seem to find the discussion???

Whoa you are observant! As you said it's your professional eye here. No this has never, to my knowledge been discussed, could be VERY significant. I'll try and find the vid and watch it. I also have a very keen eye and often spot things others don't see. Have my father's eyes , he was screen editor and projectionist for over 40 years and he taught me well to watch films closely for faults/editing mistakes etc. Will let you know if I see what you see. Well done mate!

 

[lsdmongre]

Has anyone discussed previously the different CCTV footage that is on youtube by Flect? I mean at 19secs the changeover split screen, shows the top half of the screen with a guy walking walking towards Gugeri St .He appears to look like MM to me but with a black jacket or something over his left shoulder. He seems to have a turned in left foot when he walks. You see him walk quite quickly and turns left onto the main road. However this footage is in the documentary. The lower half of the transition shot shows the body of what appears to be MM with a black something thrown over his right shoulder. To me the left leg appears turned in also. He is just entering the doors of the club and you can see the guy at the pole with his arms crossed behind him. Given he entered the club and then managed to exit and be half way up the street within a 28second time frame suggests he just stood close by the door and looked around for a little bit and then walked past Jane again and up the street. I always just thought they had that one back shot of him and wondered where he went? It would explain them not having footage of him in the hotel if just looked in for a few seconds and left.
I can imagine MM has lost his mates and is drunkenly looking for them ( made a joke about it to Jane making her laugh?) or perhaps he is BRE and he went to get a car to pick her up?
I just didn't know there was footage showing him going into the hotel and walking away 28seconds later!!!
And in regards to the pigeon toe on the left leg of MM. Does anyone know if BRE has the same issue?????
I can spot these things pretty well as I was a dance and PE teacher.
I can't capture the split screen on my phone so can't screenshot it and add for you. I can't screenshot on my computer. If you have a look at Flect's footage on youtube you can try and pause it to get the split screen at 19secs just after MM interacts with Jane.
Sorry if this has been discussed already...surely it has but please fill me in on previous discussion. I can't seem to find the discussion???

Is this what you mean?

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[user29]

Is this what you mean?

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Skyza - Interesting - can you break this down a little, as I am having a little trouble following along.

 

[Nugget77]

There is a big sporting complex with change rooms, canteen, kids playground etc enter off Gay St

Yeah, there is a soccer team based there - Sutherlands Park. Kids and Amateurs. It also appears from the map that there is a hockey club there too.

 

[Banquo's Ghost]

Mutilation stories about the girls are not new, aside from the people who have seen the evidence and the CSK/s we won't know for sure until the trial.


Fair to say though if the bodies were 'untouched' then there have been people actively making up stories for whatever purpose about the girls. I think everyone in Perth in the 90's heard something.

If it turns out the victims weren't mutilated, then the people who made up the rumours that they were are disgusting. Boosting your credibility as "someone in the know" while others are grieving, scared or working to find the killer is cheap and nasty, as well as selfish.

 

[mandy.maree]

Has a part of the cctv vid been cut out that would have shown MMs face? Seems from the way it was switched views that the front of MM should have been captured also?

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[Skyza]

Skyza - Interesting - can you break this down a little, as I am having a little trouble following along.

YES YES YES user 29! Thank you for posting the transition page.

So when I first saw it I thought wtf how are there 2 guys who look similar but one walking away from the club with a black jacket on his left shoulder and one walking into the hotel at the same time????? Then I realised that the lower frame must be just after MM has talked to Jane and that the one where he is walking away wih the jacket now on his left shoulder must be 28secs later....and he has already walked in through the doors, had a look around and then walked past Jane and up the road. He turns left on Gugeri.
They said there is 28secs missing between MM interacting with Jane and when it returns to her standing by the pole where they said he had disappeared??? But there is this transition image of him about to enter the club and also of him leaving??? The evidence is what you just posted. The transition shot has been removed on the documentary footage it seems?
You can tell MM is entering the doors to the hotel after he has talked to Jane because the guy in the background leaning against the pole has his arms and legs crossed whereas he was in a different position previously.

Sorry hard to explain. Does this help?

Skyza - Interesting - can you break this down a little, as I am having a little trouble following along.

 

[janwa]

Yeah, there is a soccer team based there - Sutherlands Park. Kids and Amateurs. It also appears from the map that there is a hockey club there too.

If you can hit it, kick it or whack it you can play it at Sutherlands Park it's been there for years http://www.gosnells.wa.gov.au/About...es/Reserves_for_Hire/Sutherlands_Park_Reserve

 

[Skyza]

**** sorry user 29 I am having trouble with posting obviously please see below. Sorry sleuthers
Oh good god I mean above. It won't let me reply with the video shot you took??? I don't know why? That would be helpful for everyone to look at above. Or could you post it again?

Skyza - Interesting - can you break this down a little, as I am having a little trouble following along.

 

[mandy.maree]

Has anyone discussed previously the different CCTV footage that is on youtube by Flect? I mean at 19secs the changeover split screen, shows the top half of the screen with a guy walking walking towards Gugeri St .He appears to look like MM to me but with a black jacket or something over his left shoulder. He seems to have a turned in left foot when he walks. You see him walk quite quickly and turns left onto the main road. However this footage is in the documentary. The lower half of the transition shot shows the body of what appears to be MM with a black something thrown over his right shoulder. To me the left leg appears turned in also. He is just entering the doors of the club and you can see the guy at the pole with his arms crossed behind him. Given he entered the club and then managed to exit and be half way up the street within a 28second time frame suggests he just stood close by the door and looked around for a little bit and then walked past Jane again and up the street. I always just thought they had that one back shot of him and wondered where he went? It would explain them not having footage of him in the hotel if just looked in for a few seconds and left.
I can imagine MM has lost his mates and is drunkenly looking for them ( made a joke about it to Jane making her laugh?) or perhaps he is BRE and he went to get a car to pick her up?
I just didn't know there was footage showing him going into the hotel and walking away 28seconds later!!!
And in regards to the pigeon toe on the left leg of MM. Does anyone know if BRE has the same issue?????
I can spot these things pretty well as I was a dance and PE teacher.
I can't capture the split screen on my phone so can't screenshot it and add for you. I can't screenshot on my computer. If you have a look at Flect's footage on youtube you can try and pause it to get the split screen at 19secs just after MM interacts with Jane.
Sorry if this has been discussed already...surely it has but please fill me in on previous discussion. I can't seem to find the discussion???

There was actually a video of BRE on here not too long ago.
Anyone still have that link?

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[b4u]

Maybe BRE impersonated that BE?

Wow! I'd never considered that.

All that speculation about the CSK impersonating taxi drivers and law enforcers.

Impersonating a real AFL player of the same height, build, facial features, state of birth (assumed), and year of birth. (possibly a blood relative)?
Impressive theory.

If WAPOL are looking at that angle, they'd (IMO) have already questioned the other BE, which might have resulted in the quick removal of the web presence and other pictures of the other BE except for a footy one of him in his mid 20's (assumed).

 

[Sillybilly]

Hiya all.. I have been a long time lurker and only decided to post because I was told by my mother that my uncle knew the guy who worked in the morgue at the time of the murders. Am I allowed to post how the girls were found or not?

Welcome to Websleuths, Chooky.

Sorry if you have been misled by some of the answers to your question.

Stating something as fact without links and no other way to verify the information (unless it is in MSM or comes from LE), the information would be considered rumour, and Websleuths does not allow discussion of rumour.

While the information you have may ultimately prove out, it also might not ... in which case we would have post after post discussing rumour rather than fact.

 

[Skyza]

Has a part of the cctv vid been cut out that would have shown MMs face? Seems from the way it was switched views that the front of MM should have been captured also?

It seems weird hey? I don't have knowledge of CCTV systems but the footage of him entering (or about to enter?) Must have been at least 5 seconds after the shot of him from behind. Giving him all of 23secs to get out of the hotel and up the street a bit. I had thought he nay have said I am busting to do a piss or something to Jane but when I realised he had only 28secs to get back up the street I presumed he did a quick look around from the door to inside the club just to check for his mates or something? No time to go to the loo.
If he had 2 mins to get to his car and pick her up I think that would be hard going.
Maybe she got the creeps with the guy staring at her and left to find MM or he had come back to the corner but really it is strange that WAPOL would know he walked towards the door and left the club within 28seconds so why didn't they say he has a black jacket thrown over his shoulder and was seen entering and leaving? Very strange indeed!

 

[b4u]

Highly possible, maybe a role that would even allow him to meet players at the highest level of the sport, his posts in the WCE eagles come across as if he had personal contact with some high profile players based on the "blah blah is a really nice guy" etc.

Not far off the mark (see below).

http://centralcrocs.asn.au/newsletters/08-2016.pdf

The Central Crocs enjoyed having West Coast Eagleschampion Peter Matera at training as we assisted himgetting his touch back and a bit of run in the legs inpreparation for him playing in the EJ Whitten Legendsgame in a few weeks. We may see him at a couplemore training sessions.

In BRE earlier Central Croc playing years (2007-9'ish?) they might have had other guest ex WAFL/AFL legends train with them too.

 

[MrsNathanDrake]

Sorry if this is obvious, I googled but couldn't come up with anything- which country town/area is Sarah Spiers from?

 

[bintang28]

Ding Ding you are incorrect he definately drove down to mandurah to see if she was at the property .

________________________________________________________________
Slyza - I think what this means is that Don Spears - who said many psychics had contacted him early on whose leads he initially relentlessly followed had a 'near miss' (mentioning Mandurah region as being important).

 

[bintang28]

It DOES seem weird especially as they also used a local production company to try and clean it up as well as NASA

It seems weird hey? I don't have knowledge of CCTV systems but the footage of him entering (or about to enter?) Must have been at least 5 seconds after the shot of him from behind. Giving him all of 23secs to get out of the hotel and up the street a bit. I had thought he nay have said I am busting to do a piss or something to Jane but when I realised he had only 28secs to get back up the street I presumed he did a quick look around from the door to inside the club just to check for his mates or something? No time to go to the loo.
If he had 2 mins to get to his car and pick her up I think that would be hard going.
Maybe she got the creeps with the guy staring at her and left to find MM or he had come back to the corner but really it is strange that WAPOL would know he walked towards the door and left the club within 28seconds so why didn't they say he has a black jacket thrown over his shoulder and was seen entering and leaving? Very strange indeed!

 

[Skyza]

Is this what you mean?

So sorry Isdmongre I completely missed your post and am having posting and login issues.;I also have square eyes from being at the computer so long hehehe. Yes that is exactly what I meant but I only saw user 29's so sorry I missed that. I have tried to explain it further, further down but my posting issues arrggghhhh. Do you see what I mean. He is enterig and leaving. When you play the video you can see him walking left onto Gugeri too

 

[Look4Clues]

I've just remembered that some young friends of mine around the same age of the victims used to frequent the Ocean Beach Hotel in Cottesloe back then to see if they could get near to or meet West Coast Eagles footballers because they were such huge fans. That's where certain players usually hung out on Friday and Saturday nights.

Both Sarah Spiers and Jane Rimmer first went to the Ocean Beach Hotel before heading off to Claremont those nights and I have seen on here that Jane was a WCE follower.

As the suspect is such a huge WCE fan as well maybe he also went to the OBH for the same reason. Perhaps he met Jane earlier at the OBH when she was there and arranged to meet her at the Conti after closing.

MM is not seen to coming out of the Conti hotel but appears to have driven his car there and the expression on her face is one of giving him a big welcoming smile.

It might also explain why no-one has come forward to say they saw MM inside the hotel.

She was also checking her watch while she was standing outside the Conti which indicates she had a pre-arranged meeting.

Am not sure if Sarah was also a WCE fan as well but she was at the OBH earlier in the night as well so there is a link there.

 

[MrsNathanDrake]

Not far off the mark (see below).
http://centralcrocs.asn.au/newsletters/08-2016.pdf
In BRE earlier Central Croc playing years (2007-9'ish?) they might have had other guest ex WAFL/AFL legends train with them too.

Interesting. He could also have come into regular contact with semi-pro athletes in other ways too. I know Shaun McManus from the dockers had a part-time job teaching footy at one of the prisons, someone I went to school with played in the WAFL for a few years but only earned around $15k a year so had to have another part-time job to supplement it and a law firm I used to work in were big rugby lovers so they used to give Western Force players a part-time job just doing archiving and lodging documents etc so they could afford to eat but still work around their team commitments.

Since AFL was very new here and a bit of a gamble career-wise, maybe Telstra or somewhere else that put BRE in contact with players, gave the players part-time jobs so they could afford to make the jump to AFL?