Australia Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #12

[b4u]

It would likely be the Government sued and as in most cases, settled out of court. Telstra nor the Government like adverse publicity and presuure to settle would be immense.

If any victims families were after justice and not money, then I am having trouble in agreeing that the families would be happy to settle out of court, under any circumstances. Not if the whole purpose of any legal action, was to attempt to publicly expose those partially to blame, for not assisting contribute to preventing crimes committed after the initial crime(s), or discovering the CSK earlier and saving the families from drawn out suffering, from such a long period before any CSK was caught and successfully convicted.

 

[Grok]

John Glover committed a number of murders and assaults while calling on nursing homes and retirement villages as a sales rep for a pie company. He used a work vehicle. I'm not aware of any civil action taken against his employer.


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If there isn't a lawyer on the forum who is capable of answering the question with authority, intelligence and knowledge, then really there isn't much point is discussing it. But your point has been the most informative so far. Hopefully though this topic doesn't continue and eat up forum space.

 

[b4u]

Four Corners might cover it? Agree though, not for some time unfortunately.

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The chances of Four Corners not being permanently downgraded into a right winged circle, hinge on a change of Federal Government in the next few years.

 

[CP345]

If any victims families were after justice and not money, then I am having trouble in agreeing that the families would be happy to settle out of court, under any circumstances. Not if the whole purpose of any legal action, was to attempt to publicly expose those partially to blame, for not assisting contribute to preventing crimes committed after the initial crime(s), or discovering the CSK earlier and saving the families from drawn out suffering, from such a long period before any CSK was caught and successfully convicted.

I think it's feasible that a case could be made against the police and in effect the govt. particularly if negligence or gross incompetence occurred in the police investigation after the JR disappearance. For example if mystery man turns out to be the killer and they chose not to get him identified by the public or ignored clear evidence because they were blinkered.

I honestly can't see how Telstra would get dragged into this. To me they're in the same position as the family here. Hoodwinked for years by someone very adept at leading two separate lives. They didn't supply him with anything he couldn't have got from the hardware store or car yard.

 

[shovel]

If there isn't a lawyer on the forum who is capable of answering the question with authority, intelligence and knowledge, then really there isn't much point is discussing it. But your point has been the most informative so far. Hopefully though this topic doesn't continue and eat up forum space.

There are lawyers on this forum, whether they are licensed to practce in WA or specialise in criminal or corporate l dont know but if it's a subject that interests users in relation to the case that may open up a new avenue of inquiry why should you object?

Also, ex WApol officer suggested an extra $10m was applied for and received for surveillance re. CSK. Do WApol employ outside contractors for installation? I know they have their own tekkies down here but unsure in WA.



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[Spooks-R-Us]

Then why keep his pic on your FB page? Also, my understanding was the catalyst was a DNA link. What's your source?

In my understanding of the events that led up to BRE's arrest and charges :
- WAPOL were systemically revisiting and reviewing cold cases.
- using new DNA methods used on evidence from these old cases ( eg Kimono attack)
- DNA from Kimono attack matched DNA taken from CG and KK incidents.
- police went back to information in Kimono file and reports on this old cold case.
- the kimono reports led to additional avenues of enquiry
- whatever was documented in Kimono allowed for new POI/s
- new POI/s were scrutinised
- police able to locate the alleged CSK BRE
- BRE was 'picked up' by Police
- police took sample of DNA from BRE
- BRE DNA matched DNA CG/KK cases.
- arrest made while BRE was in custody
- arrest reported to media

This was all outlined in MSM, and I will try find exact link.

<modsnip>

This court process will probably be long and drawn out. And hopefully it won't take 20 more years!


Sorry about no link - I will need to search . I have the link saved on laptop and my laptop is not here with me.


Happy Australia Day
Aussie Aussie AUSSIE!!!

 

[shovel]

The chances of Four Corners not being permanently downgraded into a right winged circle, hinge on a change of Federal Government in the next few years.

True that dude

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[b4u]

John Glover committed a number of murders and assaults while calling on nursing homes and retirement villages as a sales rep for a pie company. He used a work vehicle. I'm not aware of any civil action taken against his employer.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/la...s/news-story/06744f28fffd8204d5d6cdce03cd2e88

The murders and assaults were reported as being in 1989-90.

I suspect that the onus on employers to monitor company vehicles is much stronger now than 25-30 years ago.
Mainly because there is cost effective technology that can do it much more easily and effectively now than before.

Agreed. This line of discussion is now ripe for a qualified legal opinion, or someone providing some case current relevant precedence that discusses what the law was in this area back then versus now.

 

[SherlockSleuth]

The idea that victims families may attempt to sue Telstra seems nothing but pure speculation. OK, it could happen (in that almost anything is *possible*) but at the moment it's just a figment of people's imagination. Personally I doubt the families would have the energy to fight a protracted and expensive legal battle at the conclusion of BREs day in court, which we know will be protracted itself. Happy to be proven wrong, but doubt it.

 

[shovel]

The idea that victims families may attempt to sue Telstra seems nothing but pure speculation. OK, it could happen (in that almost anything is *possible*) but at the moment it's just a figment of people's imagination. Personally I doubt the families would have the energy to fight a protracted and expensive legal battle at the conclusion of BREs day in court, which we know will be protracted itself. Happy to be proven wrong, but doubt it.

Always prepared to be proven wrong as well and l hope lm wrong with some of my suspicions. The only thing we know for sure that forces change within big organisations and corporations is when it might cost them money. So l wouldn't bet on the girls families not pursuing them, and it wont necessarily be for a payout.

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[Grok]

There are lawyers on this forum, whether they are licensed to practce in WA or specialise in criminal or corporate l dont know but if it's a subject that interests users in relation to the case that may open up a new avenue of inquiry why should you object?

Also, ex WApol officer suggested an extra $10m was applied for and received for surveillance re. CSK. Do WApol employ outside contractors for installation? I know they have their own tekkies down here but unsure in WA.



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Sorry I didn't realise there are lawyers on the forum. . Who are they?

 

[MrsNathanDrake]

I'm only up to page 31 but my phone keeps overheating and I wanted to address a couple of points before I forgot, so my apologies if im retreading old ground.

The missing 'millions': blackmail is possible but very hard to keep from the (ex)wives, although certainly there are relationships where one partner is kept completely in the dark about family finances. I think BRE might be doing what more Australians should be doing and saving for retirement. He seems quite unambitious. He had a comfortable home, a wife, a child, mates, his computer games and some other gadgets, played sports and volunteered in a community organisation. Why spend money on more just because you can? Maybe he and CG(E) were saving to have a comfortable retirement, travel around Europe or Australia.

8wk adjournment: I mentioned a thread or two back about discovery lists. Anything one side plans to refer to, the other side must also have access to. Depending on the volume and difficulty of documents (little receipts, A0 size charts, X-rays, even foolscap pages) it can take weeks and weeks to make the copies. The law firm I used to work for actually bought a van for moving documents to the courts and to other parties because the volume was sometimes so huge. Not to mention, you need to allow time for the other party to read the documents, do any research etc needed (the source documents are discoverable but not necessarily any interpretation or research done on them, so for example a photo of tyre tracks at a burial location is discoverable, but the report from someone you found who can tell you what type of tyre made those tracks might not be and your notes on how many of that tyre were sold that particular year would definitely not be discoverable). I doubt it's the DNA evidence, I'm sure that would have already been demanded early on, but it could be something like BREs work orders and time sheets from the times the different offences occurred.

The step-daughter: I think it was a dog move for the news to run an article that was basically just a big pic of the SD, her full name, her nickname, her job industry, said she was at BRE house when he was arrested, has the same hobbies as him and has been visiting him. At most it should have been a sentence in another article ("his SD has been visiting him during his time in remand") instead they're trying to make something scandalous out of it and drag a young girl into this mess when she has done nothing wrong. The only thing I can think of which redeems it is maybe it is an attempt to make her life extra uncomfortable to encourage BRE to just plead guilty and spill all the details in order to spare the SD any more suffering. But more likely they were just after the page clicks at any cost.

 

[SherlockSleuth]

Been reading about John Glover & Ivan Milat, and there are a few similarities with BRE. Started offending early. Employed in a job that sees them on the road a bit. Police bungling.

Something these monsters did not do is confess to any more killings, even though police were quite certain (certainly in Milat's case) that they'd committed more murders. Be interesting to see if this is the case with BRE too.

FWIW I think BRE will plead guilty. Such a private person won't want his whole life put on public trial.

 

[MrsNathanDrake]

Not really. It's still unknown why it takes a month for prosecutors to hand over some documents to defence. Why would that be? Do they not have said documents yet, is the case still is too circumstantial, they haven't finished looking/ searching the addresses, haven't found anything of substance as yet, key witness not available etc etc.

They don't hand over documents, they make a copy and it usually takes longer than you'd think . True story: I spent over 3wks scanning charts of rats rectal temperatures to pdf for Grey vs UWA.

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

https://thewest.com.au/news/australia/forensic-science-helps-police-close-in-on-killer-ng-ya-135887

Article from Jan 2016 :

"Under WA law, anyone suspected of involvement in a serious offence can be compelled to provide a DNA sample, even if they are not charged with an offence."

Basically once police brought in BRE, (because they suspected BRE to be the CSK), for questioning- then WAPOL could legally could gain BRE's DNA with or without his consent.

His DNA matched DNA from CG and KK cases.

 

[crabstick]

<modsnip> from one or two autopsies from air accidents/crashes that I've previously read, the bodies of the deceased will produce alcohol as a by-product of decomposition. So unless further study and analysis was performed, the presence of ethanol on an autopsy report, cited by an author is largely meaningless IMO.

To clarify the science:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8263473

"This retrospective study of 286 autopsied medical examiner cases was undertaken to evaluate alcohol concentrations and distribution in various fluids and tissues in decomposed bodies. ..."

"... We were unable to determine the source of the remaining 62 alcohol concentrations."

The issue here is, we are required a 'source' to make a statement of fact.
And in thr case of Deb Marshalls book we have a written source which is probably closer to fact than some the paper news media.
So if our source is inaccurate, we are going to have inaccuracies.
I have information sourced from police officers which I dont have a written reference but Im not even sure of their accuracy. Police may have set out to put misinformation in the public for a number of reasons.
We are bound by innaccurate media as a source.
I can tell you the Ferrari parked in the middle the Bay View tce bit is true becsuse I nearly hit at 5.30 in the morning.
I didnt know what was going on at that point because there was not a police car or police officer in sight.
There was a couple of security guys standing roadside as I drove around the Ferrari.

 

[CP345]

They don't hand over documents, they make a copy and it usually takes longer than you'd think . True story: I spent over 3wks scanning charts of rats rectal temperatures to pdf for Grey vs UWA.

That brings new meaning to the saying, "I don't give a rat's arse."

 

[OneSmallStepAtATime]

That brings new meaning to the saying, "I don't give a rat's arse."

Bahahaha... I needed a giggle after today's events at the fireworks :-(

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

Bahahaha... I needed a giggle after today's events at the fireworks :-(

This year is first time in about a decade that I haven't gone to the foreshore and watched the fireworks. A good year to miss Australia Day fireworks and not witness the plane crashing into the Swan River and killing its occupants.
RIP to the people who died.

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

That brings new meaning to the saying, "I don't give a rat's arse."

Very clever CP-30 ---- ooops I meant CP345 [emoji12][emoji12][emoji12][emoji12][emoji12]