Australia Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #12

[Spinnaker]

what makes you believe BREhad this model car (Mazda/Datsun) in his possession during the specified dates? Is this factual or just a rumour?

does anyone have the access required to confirm or refute this rumour?

Let us us stick to facts and not rumour.

Hi - there are some posts around page 2&3 of this thread. Also attaching pic which is posted by PrimeSuspect on page 2:

 

[gajafar]

The original post is long gone so unless someone snapped it while it was there I guess we won't be re-reading it. When I first read it, I remember thinking it seemed like a reasonable post. Certainly not the usual rubbish most trolls put up here. It raised no alarm bells with me that it was a lie at the time. The explanation above could well be true. Hard to know.

it is snipped. Yes he did not use much punctuation but he did say BRE was not pedantic like people think. Quiet type/ normal guy, worked with him for 5 years and were working cabling for north star resources at the time. Claims to have called crimestoppers at the time. I've added it to JG notes, and also found a pic of a man looking like BRE in a blurry old Govan news clip and recommended alerting LE. But then not long after he came on WS saying it was a lie he made up. Later another WS poster disclosed the PM's re LE questioning him. I have NFI what's what but have added it to my notes on JG anyway.

FWIW Nst didn't even form as company until May of 2000, and didn't list publicly on the ASX until 2003. That in itself is in conflict with 3BM's claims.

 

[gajafar]

I have been contemplating the blitz theory and don't see it meeting a common sense approach (apologies to original poster if I am wrong). If snatched from an extremely quiet street maybe, but not from a main road.
This would mean having to park a well marked Telstra car on the street, getting out and grabbing a person from the side of road (without them running off), somehow binding their hands or incapacitating them somehow. Then bundling them into the car, fighting, kicking and screaming then getting back to the drivers side and driving off without anyone seeing anything and them not being able to escape. The main road that at least one victim appears to of been abducted from would be far too risky for such an attempt, IMO.
Most likely more than one perp (driver + 1) or lured into the car.
there were no witnesses and no one heard anything, so it just doesn't make sense.

Yes the 3 crimes are not all going to be identical in every detail. 1 may be blitz (SS/ phone booth), one may be opportunistic (CG/ Hitch hking), 1 may be charm/ associate (JR/MM). If it was all a blitz attacks surely more screams would be reported. May be got away with it once with SS by using tape on the mouth? Still a possibility SS attack wasn't blitz either such as the fake taxi idea.

 

[TheSecondLaw]

Was it the post made by 3blindmice (from memory) about working in Kalgoorlie in '99? That poster used no punctuation, claimed BRE was pedantic (cut off end of zip ties), that he didn't stay overnight because his 'wife was domineering', and that when he joked about BRE not attending drinks the evening the victim went missing BRE 'became angry when jokingly accused of the murder'. The last assertion in particular sounds fairly ridiculous to me. Or was it the post made by a poster claiming their brother in law worked on Macro? If so I have screenshots of the latter should anyone be interested. The main thing of interest I took from that was the assertion that the 'impressive and authoritative cop-like character with the plastic-lined boot and abduction kit' from Marshall's book was 'not the accused'.


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For anyone interested, the post in question regarding the Kalgoorlie anecdote remains intact in thread # 9, post # 1388. I have no intent on sleuthing other members, but would like to know where exactly was it that this story was admitted to not be true?

 

[TheSecondLaw]

Channel 9 news 6pm tonight had the short interview with Donald Spiers (father of SS) and sitting next to him during the interview was WA Shadow Attorney-General John Quigley. Donald Spiers said 21years (anniversary of her disappearance) on from Sarah's disappearance was pure agony for him and his family - it was as though someone had cut his intestines out from his stomach and they were trailing on the floor - the pain !!!!. It was quite a graphic interview for 6pm news timeslot. Very difficult to watch this I found as Donald was close to tears - his eyes said it all - he was trying to keep his emotions hidden. He explained how he had been chronically depressed over the last 2 years - but, was on medication that was helping him. Donald had special words for the perp too - demanding to know where the perp put Sarah . John said Labor will introduce "no body no parole" laws should Labor get in at the next State election.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Quigley_(politician)

There would be few folks here who don't believe that finding SS is of any urgency / importance. Some cannot understand why there are even still conversations about the Claremont case in general, forgetting that it's still far from a closed book - Despite an arrest.

I can't imagine that 'disheartening' would even begin to describe the feeling when someone's loved one can still be missing after over 20 years without a trace, especially when there's been an arrest in relation to two other cases always declared to be linked.

 

[TheSecondLaw]

Yes the 3 crimes are not all going to be identical in every detail. 1 may be blitz (SS/ phone booth), one may be opportunistic (CG/ Hitch hking), 1 may be charm/ associate (JR/MM). If it was all a blitz attacks surely more screams would be reported. May be got away with it once with SS by using tape on the mouth? Still a possibility SS attack wasn't blitz either such as the fake taxi idea.

I've always had a similar hunch about the blitz theory. Let's assume all three Claremont victims involved blitzes. Are we to assume each time the blitz was a 100% success rate in the vicinity of other people without a single person seeing / hearing something strange, which in hindsight was possibly a blitz in progress?

SS in particular seemed to be in a more 'central' area waiting for the Taxi. However, being well into the small hours of the morning, maybe the men who drove past in the car really were the only other people around besides SS and her abductor.

 

[Trueblue2017]

As a female - if you were intoxicated and tired and preoccupied with "getting home" - one "clout" would be enough to knock you off your already "unstable feet" or high heels - IMHO it does not take long to render someone silent. Takes 2 secs to stick a tea-towel in someones mouth. A premeditated killer has means - to thrust a knife at a throat - as that was the MO for the Birnies. Once in the car - and the doors don't work (Birnies again) - blanket thrown over. 5% chance of surviving being taken to a 2nd location.

certainly not discounting your comment - however if someone pulled a car up next to you and jumped out in a hurry and rushed at you, would you not scream, run and/or fight back? An unconscious person is very awkward to man-handle in a good situation never mind when worried about being seen on a main road. Have you ever tried to move a very drunk person, extremely difficult when they are a dead weight...just IMHO.
Hard to explain why your car doors won't open to other staff and you boss when using what would of been a pool car, it just doesn't fit when you apply common sense.
What would have happened if they were knocked out (as you suggest) but come to in transit, all car windows are made very easy to break from the inside for safety reasons...this could be something the police could look into, did the vehicle he was using back then require any window replacements. This would be logged with Telstra fleet maintenance.

Certainly not trying to offend you, just applying common sense to a horrible scenario.

ps. Bertie's were a couple as I suggested earlier. And at least one lady was sober enough to ring a cab, can't say if they had heels or not...most ladies take them off late at night, and neither of us were there.

 

[pauldking]

For anyone interested, the post in question regarding the Kalgoorlie anecdote remains intact in thread # 9, post # 1388. I have no intent on sleuthing other members, but would like to know where exactly was it that this story was admitted to not be true?

The poster called Rolf***granger said all stories were fabricated by 3blindmice and by mtsu claiming to be the author of both posts and that your mother told you not to believe everything you read or to that effect. The post self-destructed within ten minutes. I don't know why the original 3blindmice post still stands because that goes against both theories IMO.

 

[Trueblue2017]

Since following this thread I have always wondered why the perp appears to have gone to so much trouble to hide/remove his DNA but just left the ladies bodies so visible. ie. Why not bury them, Perth also has some vast bush land, why so close to the road?
If BRE is the perp and was from the outer suburbs, would he not have some knowledge of the WA bush, why leave (and my apologies to any victims family) a body only 200M (as reported in the west Australian) from the road if he did?

It doesn't really make sense, just trying to apply some common sense.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Since following this thread I have always wondered why the perp appears to have gone to so much trouble to hide/remove his DNA but just left the ladies bodies so visible. ie. Why not bury them, Perth also has some vast bush land, why so close to the road?
If BRE is the perp and was from the outer suburbs, would he not have some knowledge of the WA bush, why leave (and my apologies to any victims family) a body only 200M (as reported in the west Australian) from the road if he did?

It doesn't really make sense, just trying to apply some common sense.

In what way was the CSK hiding/removing his DNA? Where is this info?

Why not bury them? The suspect wasn't caught until now, so if he'd put much thought into or not, he nearly got away with it.

 

[Eaglette]

Since following this thread I have always wondered why the perp appears to have gone to so much trouble to hide/remove his DNA but just left the ladies bodies so visible. ie. Why not bury them, Perth also has some vast bush land, why so close to the road?
If BRE is the perp and was from the outer suburbs, would he not have some knowledge of the WA bush, why leave (and my apologies to any victims family) a body only 200M (as reported in the west Australian) from the road if he did?

It doesn't really make sense, just trying to apply some common sense.

How do you know he went to so much trouble to hide/remove his DNA?

Perhaps it worked with one body left out in the open (it decomposed fully) and nothing was left. (Jan/Feb/Mar -summer hot months) ..... so outside in the elements was his easy and lazy choice. e.g. Worked for his first murder IMO

 

[Trueblue2017]

In what way was the CSK hiding/removing his DNA? Where is this info?

Why not bury them? The suspect wasn't caught until now, so if he'd put much thought into or not, he nearly got away with it.

You are correct, no true evidence to prove this...but less evidence to suggest he owned the Mazda/Datsun during the time frame.

i base this on the fact that the police have stated they have only familial DNA evidence thus far. If they had hard evidence you would expect them to state that by now. There were many rumours going around Perth of how the (and if victim families are following this, please forgive me) bodies were cleaned but they are only rumours and I prefer facts, so my apologies for losing focus.

 

[Trueblue2017]

How do you know he went to so much trouble to hide/remove his DNA? I don't think common sense applies to Serial Killers. Perhaps it worked with one body left out in the open (it decomposed fully) and nothing was left. (Jan/Feb/Mar -summer hot months) ..... so outside in the elements was his lazy choice.

Girl in The Post article all those years earlier (taken from her friends vehicle in the Cottesloe car park and woke up in the perps station wagon) - she admitted the perp must have carried her from one car to another whilst she was blind drunk. Easily - with noone from a busy Pub/car park noticing. Heck - she didn't even know. The perp then stops his car and tries to rape her she "come to her senses - suddenly sober" running down a street to a garage - and the perp finding her again! Cat and Mouse games. Perp sounds lazy and opportunistic - stalking vulnerable, young, tipsy/drunk women just wanting to get home or to get to sleep. Fortunately, this girl got away.

Fact - I called Taxis for female friends I know that were inebriated - when opening a taxi door; would fall into the Taxi; hitting their head climbing in the taxi vehicle - passed out/sleeping the whole way home in a Taxi ride. Never knowing how they even got home. And, wondering where they got the bruise on their heads from. One in fact wakening up with the Taxi driver having a snooze at South Perth because he didnt have her address. What I'm trying to say is that IMHO the perp got away with easy targets and easy "disposals" - and Perth bush is huge and not many cars out on the roads at 1am 2am 3am 4am 5am in those days. Like trying to find a needle in a haystack 20mins out of Perth - thousands of places to "dispose" of a body.

Some valid points, yes.

If he stalked the Claremont area looking for an easy target, why be lazy in the disposal? Serial killers are generally intelligent if not highly intelligent so why, is all I am asking.
why drive an hour or so from the abduction site to only dump a body 200m from the road? Why not drive deep into the bush? Or the pine forests up in that region?
it would be like trying to find a needle in a hay stack at 1am, but any semi-intelligent person would realise that the sun rises every day, so why only just of the road and not deep in the bush?

my purpose is to promote thought and discussion not argue, so I welcome your comments.
just FYI I would never leave a friend in a taxi unattended in that condition for multiple reasons.

 

[Trueblue2017]

How do you know he went to so much trouble to hide/remove his DNA?

Perhaps it worked with one body left out in the open (it decomposed fully) and nothing was left. (Jan/Feb/Mar -summer hot months) ..... so outside in the elements was his easy and lazy choice. e.g. Worked for his first murder IMO

Having travelled on country roads I have seen and smelt a lot of road kill, and you can smell a decomposing kangaroo for a long way off. It would be a big risk to leave a body so close to the road. Mind you I am unfamiliar with that area so it may be isolated but still, why take the risk IMO. Reading about DNA, would leaving a body in moving water not be the least risky option. If only the police could delve that far back into browser histories to see if it was something researched.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

You are correct, no true evidence to prove this...but less evidence to suggest he owned the Mazda/Datsun during the time frame.

i base this on the fact that the police have stated they have only familial DNA evidence thus far. If they had hard evidence you would expect them to state that by now. There were many rumours going around Perth of how the (and if victim families are following this, please forgive me) bodies were cleaned but they are only rumours and I prefer facts, so my apologies for losing focus.

There is no evidence reported so far about the bodies and if the perp cleaned DNA, yet there's less about the car? How do you figure that?

i base this on the fact that the police have stated they have only familial DNA evidence thus far.

is this fact?

Why state a rumour in the first place?

 

[MissUnderstood]

Some valid points, yes.

If he stalked the Claremont area looking for an easy target, why be lazy in the disposal? Serial killers are generally intelligent if not highly intelligent so why, is all I am asking.
why drive an hour or so from the abduction site to only dump a body 200m from the road? Why not drive deep into the bush? Or the pine forests up in that region?
it would be like trying to find a needle in a hay stack at 1am, but any semi-intelligent person would realise that the sun rises every day, so why only just of the road and not deep in the bush?

my purpose is to promote thought and discussion not argue, so I welcome your comments.
just FYI I would never leave a friend in a taxi unattended in that condition for multiple reasons.

Maybe he wanted them found? Maybe he hid SS so well that she wasn't found so he started to leave them in a place that they would be discovered! Moo


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[The Weaver]

Some valid points, yes.

If he stalked the Claremont area looking for an easy target, why be lazy in the disposal? Serial killers are generally intelligent if not highly intelligent so why, is all I am asking.
why drive an hour or so from the abduction site to only dump a body 200m from the road? Why not drive deep into the bush? Or the pine forests up in that region?
it would be like trying to find a needle in a hay stack at 1am, but any semi-intelligent person would realise that the sun rises every day, so why only just of the road and not deep in the bush?

my purpose is to promote thought and discussion not argue, so I welcome your comments.
just FYI I would never leave a friend in a taxi unattended in that condition for multiple reasons.

His ability to dispose of the bodies 'deep in the bush' would have been dependent on the type of vehicle being used. If,as is being widely speculated, the vehicle in question was in fact the VS wagon, the alleged offenders ability to negotiate bush tracks would have been severely hampered. The sites suggest that the vehicle was parked just off road and the bodies dragged to the location where they were found. It would have been a bit of a problem for him if he had got bogged at Wellard at 4-5am (speculation only) and had to call for assistance. Bit hard to explain later when the body is found.
BTW, I still strongly believe that the alleged offender impersonated a Police Officer to gain the confidence of the girls. The KK incident spooked him and the methodology was too risky. He refined it for the Claremont abductions. I also firmly believe that the Con Bayens Highgate incident with the person with the plastic lined boot and the abduction kit is very relevant to this breakthrough.
Again of course, my opinion only

 

[elastic]

I have been contemplating the blitz theory and don't see it meeting a common sense approach (apologies to original poster if I am wrong). If snatched from an extremely quiet street maybe, but not from a main road.
This would mean having to park a well marked Telstra car on the street, getting out and grabbing a person from the side of road (without them running off), somehow binding their hands or incapacitating them somehow. Then bundling them into the car, fighting, kicking and screaming then getting back to the drivers side and driving off without anyone seeing anything and them not being able to escape. The main road that at least one victim appears to of been abducted from would be far too risky for such an attempt, IMO.
Most likely more than one perp (driver + 1) or lured into the car.
there were no witnesses and no one heard anything, so it just doesn't make sense.

Sounds like Karrakatta to me.

 

[elastic]

As a female - if you were intoxicated and tired and preoccupied with "getting home" - one "clout" would be enough to knock you off your already "unstable feet" or high heels - IMHO it does not take long to render someone silent. Takes 2 secs to stick a tea-towel in someones mouth. A premeditated killer has means - to thrust a knife at a throat - as that was the MO for the Birnies. Once in the car - and the doors don't work (Birnies again) - blanket thrown over. 5% chance of surviving being taken to a 2nd location.

I wouldnt bother trying to explain it. The same people and the same "new" posters are doing their utmost best to push their point of view with very little basis to what they are posting.

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[elastic]

it is snipped. Yes he did not use much punctuation but he did say BRE was not pedantic like people think. Quiet type/ normal guy, worked with him for 5 years and were working cabling for north star resources at the time. Claims to have called crimestoppers at the time. I've added it to JG notes, and also found a pic of a man looking like BRE in a blurry old Govan news clip and recommended alerting LE. But then not long after he came on WS saying it was a lie he made up. Later another WS poster disclosed the PM's re LE questioning him. I have NFI what's what but have added it to my notes on JG anyway.

FWIW Nst didn't even form as company until May of 2000, and didn't list publicly on the ASX until 2003. That in itself is in conflict with 3BM's claims.

Could very well be one of the constant thread derailers doing what they do best. I do wonder what the motives of these people are and now that we have a suspect in custody, then why do the mods allow their threads to become a mockery. I was over at bigfooty having a read and all the users there make fun of this site and the users over here. It made me think about all the good posters that have left and have never reposted. Yet the same ppl who post garbage are always allowed back here. Makes me wonder if this placd has mods that are genuinely qualified to mod here? May consider leaving myself. Pretty much havent bothered in days anyway due to mainly these points. For those with the patience to constantly remind the same people to stop posting misinformation/ derailing the thread/ etc etc. Good luck you will need all the support you can get.

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