Australia Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #12

[silver tongue]

the problem i have with prepping a telstra exchange is he wouldnt have a 100% strike rate. id say he did a lot of miles before finding a victim
time would of been of the essence on the night so id rule out prepping with a victim in the car i guess well find out soon enough

 

[user29]

Not for the Telstra exchange theory, csk seems relatively careful in his actions, why would you bring a link to you into the picture, first thing that would happen would be they would check who has access.

Too risky for me and IMO didn't happen.

I do feel the wapol are looking in there for tags/ binds that may there to see if they can establish a link , even then I think this is remote .

Just the ravings of a mad man


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[Look4Clues]

Just to correct the name of the hospital, BRE's KK rape victim ran to the Hollywood Hospital (not Huntingdale), in Monash Avenue, which is just off Smyth Road, Nedlands - and which isn't that far from JC's plaque really ...

I didn't know about the break-in and wallet being stolen from JC....

having previously mentioned on thread, due to the reports of victims missing jewelry, items of clothing, and there being other unidentified clothes having being found at Dsites, that perhaps he carried his souvenirs along to subsequent attacks as a type of performance enhancer -—all-powerful— a theme which, if only in his mind, connected all his crimes.

Julie Cutler's plaque wasn't erected until 2008 ... 20 years after her disappearance, so there could be no connection with the plaque and the KK rape, imo, however a newspaper article mentions that JC's sister wants 3 parts of the disappearance reinvestigated
•a break-in at JC's Fremantle home shortly before she disappeared
•JC's complaint that a man had tried to force her car off Stirling Highway
•and the question of whether JC made it home on the night she disappeared - because her wallet was actually found at her house.

if Julie were stalked, abducted, AND the same person was responsible for the earlier break&enter at her home - how much may that person have gleaned of her very personal history?
her mother died early from cancer, when Julie and her sister were still very young ... and she was buried at KK cemetery.
i have wondered if perhaps Julie's mother's gravesite could have been a possible coonective theme for the later karrakatta rape?
i have found (lawn8/plot0837) which i believe is the reference for her plot; it reads to have expired in 2012.
i'v attempted, so far unsuccessfully, to locate on the cemetery map, to see whether there is any obvious proximity to smyth road & huntingdale hospital where KK victim fled after being left for dead.

my apologies if this has already been theorised, and further, for any distress causing factor.

[ https://thewest.com.au/news/wa/julies-father-wants-an-end-to-familys-pain-ng-b88342268z ]
[emoji887]

 

[JoWa]

having previously mentioned on thread, due to the reports of victims missing jewelry, items of clothing, and there being other unidentified clothes having being found at Dsites, that perhaps he carried his souvenirs along to subsequent attacks as a type of performance enhancer -—all-powerful— a theme which, if only in his mind, connected all his crimes.

Julie Cutler's plaque wasn't erected until 2008 ... 20 years after her disappearance, so there could be no connection with the plaque and the KK rape, imo, however a newspaper article mentions that JC's sister wants 3 parts of the disappearance reinvestigated
•a break-in at JC's Fremantle home shortly before she disappeared
•JC's complaint that a man had tried to force her car off Stirling Highway
•and the question of whether JC made it home on the night she disappeared - because her wallet was actually found at her house.

if Julie were stalked, abducted, AND the same person was responsible for the earlier break&enter at her home - how much may that person have gleaned of her very personal history?
her mother died early from cancer, when Julie and her sister were still very young ... and she was buried at KK cemetery.
i have wondered if perhaps Julie's mother's gravesite could have been a possible coonective theme for the later karrakatta rape?
i have found (lawn8/plot0837) which i believe is the reference for her plot; it reads to have expired in 2012.
i'v attempted, so far unsuccessfully, to locate on the cemetery map, to see whether there is any obvious proximity to smyth road & "hollywood hospital" where KK victim fled after being left for dead.

my apologies if this has already been theorised, and further, for any distress causing factor.

[ https://thewest.com.au/news/wa/julies-father-wants-an-end-to-familys-pain-ng-b88342268z ]
[emoji887]

Lawn 8 is top right orange area. Otherside to Smyth Rd. Didn't realise the plaque was so long after, maybe just coincidental. Thanks for that.

 

[BReVeTTe]

I didn't know about the break-in and wallet being stolen from JC....

i'v seen nothing to suggest the wallet was actually stolen from Julie, or stolen during the B&E
... only that it was found at her home following her disappearance
.. which possibly means she returned to her home having left the work function, prior to her disappearance


[emoji887]

 

[liedoggo]

Back to Sarah Spiers... She was last seen at just after 2.00am and there was a post the other day that stated that sunrise was 5.36am (sorry, can't find that post now). In fact it is usually getting light well before that time, so the window for the act and disposal is quite narrow, possibly as little as two hours all up. Could the CSK have taken the body home (empty house) and set out the next night to find a suitable place to dispose of a body? This would expand the potential area signicantly.

 

[Spinnaker]

Just to correct the name of the hospital, BRE's KK rape victim ran to the Hollywood Hospital (not Huntingdale), in Monash Avenue, which is just off Smyth Road, Nedlands - and which isn't that far from JC's plaque really ...

I didn't know about the break-in and wallet being stolen from JC....

If we go by this premise of CSK returning to scenes - let's consider that JC was abducted by CSK and taken to the abandoned Lakeway Drive-In theatre in Swanbourne. Perhaps CSK took JC there in 88 and then returned with Cottesloe Hotel abduction victim in 89 (as mentioned by victim in newspaper article) - area was very deserted and also had a couple of outbuildings on site also.


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[lsdmongre]

Back to Sarah Spiers... She was last seen at just after 2.00am and there was a post the other day that stated that sunrise was 5.36am (sorry, can't find that post now). In fact it is usually getting light well before that time, so the window for the act and disposal is quite narrow, possibly as little as two hours all up. Could the CSK have taken the body home (empty house) and set out the next night to find a suitable place to dispose of a body? This would expand the potential area signicantly.

I have always thought this he may have even taken her alive. Hence the the photos of the uv lights in the windows of the madoora bay house by police I suspect luminal was being used.





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[janwa]

i'v seen nothing to suggest the wallet was actually stolen from Julie, or stolen during the B&E
... only that it was found at her home following her disappearance
.. which possibly means she returned to her home having left the work function, prior to her disappearance


[emoji887]

What if this is nothing to do with alleged CSK. At that time the Parmelia was the initial meeting place for a S&M group. What if someone seeing JC all dressed up for the works do thought she was part of the other group andtried to crack on to her and thought her resistance to him was part of her 'game'. He followed her home and he wouldn't take no.

 

[lsdmongre]

What if this is nothing to do with alleged CSK. At that time the Parmelia was the initial meeting place for a S&M group. What if someone seeing JC all dressed up for the works do thought she was part of the other group andtried to crack on to her and thought her resistance to him was part of her 'game'. He followed her home and he wouldn't take no.

Where's the link to the S&M group come from?


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[liedoggo]

I have always thought this he may have even taken her alive. Hence the the photos of the uv lights in the windows of the madoora bay house by police I suspect luminal was being used.

There were houses very close on both sides in the photos I have seen. Not sure if they were there in 1996. Risky, if they were, but then the whole series of abductions and murders was risky.

 

[JoWa]

Back to Sarah Spiers... She was last seen at just after 2.00am and there was a post the other day that stated that sunrise was 5.36am (sorry, can't find that post now). In fact it is usually getting light well before that time, so the window for the act and disposal is quite narrow, possibly as little as two hours all up. Could the CSK have taken the body home (empty house) and set out the next night to find a suitable place to dispose of a body? This would expand the potential area signicantly.

Considering it was a Friday he could have used Saturday night for body disposal and Sunday to clean up. His house also would be an environment he could control and prepare as long as he made sure no one popped by.

 

[nini83]

Im not so sure that JC belonged to the CSK

Firstly the break in at her house, then almost being run off the road and then her wallet being at the house, possibly meaning she returned home and someone had taken her from there.

As a female returning home at that time of night you would be weary to stop the car for anyone especially after the break in and almost being run off the road.

The reason that police initially linked the CSK was because LW former POI and JC went to a class at Uni/TAFE together...

Also there was a previous post in the forum related to article that advised her clothing work uniform and stockings were found under a table at a kebab shop in the city sometime after she went missing.

It almost appears like a stalker or an ex went after her? It's doesn't appear to go with MO of the CSK.

I was reading up about the car - the back seats were found 35m away from the car but the back doors were locked and closed and with the roof squashed it may indicate the backseat was removed prior to the car being driven into the surf.

Also police don't think her body was in the car at the time it was dumped into the surf.

If we go by this premise of CSK returning to scenes - let's consider that JC was abducted by CSK and taken to the abandoned Lakeway Drive-In theatre in Swanbourne. Perhaps CSK took JC there in 88 and then returned with Cottesloe Hotel abduction victim in 89 (as mentioned by victim in newspaper article) - area was very deserted and also had a couple of outbuildings on site also.


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[KG1]

Im not so sure that JC belonged to the CSK

Firstly the break in at her house, then almost being run off the road and then her wallet being at the house, possibly meaning she returned home and someone had taken her from there.

As a female returning home at that time of night you would be weary to stop the car for anyone especially after the break in and almost being run off the road.

The reason that police initially linked the CSK was because LW former POI and JC went to a class at Uni/TAFE together...

Also there was a previous post in the forum related to article that advised her clothing work uniform and stockings were found under a table at a kebab shop in the city sometime after she went missing.

It almost appears like a stalker or an ex went after her? It's doesn't appear to go with MO of the CSK.

I was reading up about the car - the back seats were found 35m away from the car but the back doors were locked and closed and with the roof squashed it may indicate the backseat was removed prior to the car being driven into the surf.

Also police don't think her body was in the car at the time it was dumped into the surf.






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It sounds to me that JC may have been a more personal targeted attack with prior incidents before her disappearance. It may have nothing to do with CSK. If nothing to do with CSK, then the real perpetrator must be feeling comfortable with all current attention on CSK.

 

[liedoggo]

Where is the exchange in relation to the last known locations of the Claremont attacks? Anyone good with maps? I'd offer But I'm on an awful ipad that keeps crashing...

Sorry, Moustachio, I've only just seen your excellent map and photo.

 

[Zedx]

IMO I still think the three girls were familiar with him or he was able to convince them that he was familiar with some one they knew and so felt it was safe to get into the car with him. Otherwise you would think there would be other reports/incidents of him trying to 'pick up' other girls and he would have been recognised. Obviously his MO had evolved. We don't always know everything or everyone our friends or family know/meet. IMO there must be something that links these three girls. It doesn't necessarily need to be anything big or obvious. It may not even be a link directly between them but a link in how he knew or picked them. We still don't know what he did to them, or if he kept them for a while, but it does make sense that he did something to them to incapacitate them once they were in the car which enabled him to take them somewhere to do what he needed and then later take them to the place where they were found. Blue light? possibly his house initially. I also don't think the D sites had anything to do with Telstra, I think more it had to do with places he was familiar with, places that he had good knowledge of for all sorts of reasons and that were a distance from his home and that he wanted these places to be in totally different areas so he didn't get caught going to the same place twice. So I think East is a good direction for SS. What other areas would he feel comfortable with? So far we know he liked fishing, sports and gaming - where would these take him? Also as he was a gamer, there could be some link with a design (lines) for these sites.

 

[BReVeTTe]

Im not so sure that JC belonged to the CSK

Firstly the break in at her house, then almost being run off the road and then her wallet being at the house, possibly meaning she returned home and someone had taken her from there.

As a female returning home at that time of night you would be weary to stop the car for anyone especially after the break in and almost being run off the road.

The reason that police initially linked the CSK was because LW former POI and JC went to a class at Uni/TAFE together...

Also there was a previous post in the forum related to article that advised her clothing work uniform and stockings were found under a table at a kebab shop in the city sometime after she went missing.

It almost appears like a stalker or an ex went after her? It's doesn't appear to go with MO of the CSK.

I was reading up about the car - the back seats were found 35m away from the car but the back doors were locked and closed and with the roof squashed it may indicate the backseat was removed prior to the car being driven into the surf.

Also police don't think her body was in the car at the time it was dumped into the surf.

here goes...

nini,
in all i theorised in my recent post - concerning the CSK and karrakatta cemetery + map, with regard to whether there could be ANY possible Cutler link as a connective theme in the CSK's MO ... that was all i could come up with. It was a well thought out, genuine, nonmischievous attempt to rationalise any known facts which might provoke further discussion & input, in a bid to sway my own thinking towards actually believing the CSK might be responsible for Julie's disappearance.
I spent more than an evening and a day PMing - debating "JC and the CSK" - prior to being audience to last night's (derailed) serious discussion on thread (which primarily concerned Julie's fiat) - and then, this afternoon when serious discussion recommenced, it again continued on the topic of her vehicle.
... she has filled my head constantly for the past day and a half as a prelude to my recent post, which i reiterate, was only a "theory" (certainly no more out there than others over many years) and, in the light of what i'm about to say, i hope it isn't removed - that it's left up as food for thought and further consideration ...but theory is all it is - and one that fails to convince me ... i'm gaslighting myself.

and now, within a short space of time YOU have spoken up - and the truth of the matter - which you may be surprised to learn - is that i ABSOLUTELY AGREE with you,
THANK you for your input.

IMHO, there are far too many variables in the circumstances surrounding JulieCutler's disappearance - variables which lead me to be of the opinion that the person responsible for her disappearance may have become obsessed with her - and was VERY possibly also known to her.

goodnight.


[emoji887]

 

[Sea Shanty]

Just wondering if someone could please show me on this photo how JC car managed to make it to the ocean I cant see anywhere a car can be driven onto the beach especially an old 2wd car.<modsnip>

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There used to be a boat ramp on the southside of the begining of the groyne that was linked to the road that runs down to the groyne from the indiana teahouse

 

[Moustachio]

Definitely possible that SS' body was kept somewhere until the next day, or day after that. Impossible to rule out.

On the other hand, I would have thought that the nervous system would be screaming 'get rid of her asap'

Unless he is a true sociopath, in which case the stress wouldn't bother him, and he would do the logical thing: Keep her until another night, and hide her somewhere further away.

But the other bodies were pretty hastily and crudely disposed of. I tend to disposal the same night ...

 

[Moustachio]

Which, given the 3-hour window before dawn, give, say, an extra 45 minutes before the pre-dawn light, leaves just 2 1/4 hours - you are talking about a maximum driving time of 60 minutes' radius (including say at least 15 minutes to actually move, hide, unclothe, check for things left behind).

Leaves an impossibly large area - can get a considerable distance out of Perth in an hour in the wee hours.

There was also the issue of the car polish residue found with one of the bodies. Was probably conscious of getting rid of dirt or residue on the car from going on to unsealed road. Would have wanted to clean the car in a garage of some sort. He would want to have got home for that, assuming EE was not around that weekend.

I just think we are kidding ourselves to try and work out where SS might be without more facts ...