Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #15

[Sutton]

In a bit of a subject change, does anyone know the fate of Samantha White, mentioned in the following article?

http://go.galegroup.com/ps/i.do?id=...PS&sw=w&asid=7de978f1e58a9ebcc846a851821b986d

Furthermore, which four women is the article referencing?

Police are still investigating the deaths of four Perth women whose bodies were found after they disappeared from Perth pubs and nightclubs over the last five years.

The time period in question is 1996-2000.

 

[petedavo.au]

BBM
"But while some Macro officersthought there was an obviouslink between the Rowe Parkcrime and the later abductions,senior Macro officers discountedany link.They said repeatedly that itwas a “different MO” [modusoperandi].This was at the time when nobodies had been recovered, so itis hard to see how an MO couldbe determined. "

https://web.archive.org/web/2017010....com.au/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/311216.pdf

Whereas WAPOL knew KK was a blitz attack.

Does this article say that MACRO initially thought the later abductions (eg SS and JR, before JR body was found) were NOT blitz attacks?

The alleged reports of a girl walking down Stirling Highway and the alleged report of a girl being speaking to a driver on Stirling Hwy down passed HJ's, then not being seen, might be why WAPOL might of thought it was a different MO to the KK blitz.
However, there's absolutely nothing confirming the identity of the girls in these alleged sightings, and some of them reported in MSM are inconsistent, being different directions on Stirling Highway. Frankie1972 said in October 2015 that he never actually saw anything, but then said a friend at the bus stop told him.
Stirling highway is a long road, and there's always someone walking.
Likewise the fuss about CCTV of unidentified males talking to CG and JR have lead WAPOL to suspect a MO without any evidence that these males should actually be suspected of the alleged crimes.
IMO none of the CCTV vision I've viewed positively shows the accused on any of it.
I think therefore it's erroneous to think the accused changed MO based upon what basically is unproven sightings and conjecture of the investigators imaginations.
At this point, what we know from the alleged KK and Huntingdale attacks in MSM indicate IMO blitz attacks in secluded areas or away from being seen. As such IMO, that's the MO of the alleged attacks and there's no evidence to show that the way that the attacks started changed, only that the violence of the attacks escalated.

Sent from my HTC 2PQ910 using Tapatalk

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

The alleged reports of a girl walking down Stirling Highway and the alleged report of a girl being speaking to a driver on Stirling Hwy down passed HJ's, then not being seen, might be why WAPOL might of thought it was a different MO to the KK blitz.
However, there's absolutely nothing confirming the identity of the girls in these alleged sightings, and some of them reported in MSM are inconsistent, being different directions on Stirling Highway. Frankie1972 said in October 2015 that he never actually saw anything, but then said a friend at the bus stop told him.
Stirling highway is a long road, and there's always someone walking.
Likewise the fuss about CCTV of unidentified males talking to CG and JR have lead WAPOL to suspect a MO without any evidence that these males should actually be suspected of the alleged crimes.
IMO none of the CCTV vision I've viewed positively shows the accused on any of it.
I think therefore it's erroneous to think the accused changed MO based upon what basically is unproven sightings and conjecture of the investigators imaginations.
At this point, what we know from the alleged KK and Huntingdale attacks in MSM indicate IMO blitz attacks in secluded areas or away from being seen. As such IMO, that's the MO of the alleged attacks and there's no evidence to show that the way that the attacks started changed, only that the violence of the attacks escalated.

Sent from my HTC 2PQ910 using Tapatalk

Agree with most of what you say here, except that having no evidence of MO changing does not necessarily mean that the MO didn't change and stayed the same blitz style attack. The MO may have changed but we don't know because those two alleged murder victims cannot tell us (the public) what happened.

Cops may have forensic evidence that tells them more than we know now obviously


............................................
Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links. All my original text and images remain exclusively my personal copyright.
[emoji317][emoji317][emoji317]

 

[Hilo]

Agree with most of what you say here, except that having no evidence of MO changing does not necessarily mean that the MO didn't change and stayed the same blitz style attack. The MO may have changed but we don't know because those two alleged murder victims cannot tell us (the public) what happened.

Cops may have forensic evidence that tells them more than we know now obviously


............................................
Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links. All my original text and images remain exclusively my personal copyright.
[emoji317][emoji317][emoji317]

True. Also the Huntingdale attack was not hidden - was in her home! Pretty brazen, or stupid depending on how you look at it...


JMO [emoji368]

 

[PCS]

Yep !

 

[Innerchild]

Hi Spooks, CV, Petedavo and meticulously and DRT - thank you guys for the words you wrote about the questions I was being asked about my job etc. I really couldn't say much more about my job and people's privacy had to be protected. It was a bit daunting. People seemed very angry that I wouldn't say more. I will get back on WS later. Thank you again

Hi AL, please don't get confused, I wasn't asking about your job. You very interesting account of working the night that SS disappeared had many discrepancies, although it generated interesting discussion that the abduction accured 5 days into a new moon (if I'm correct?). Hard to believe but some people tell porkies for whatever reason?

Annalise
#30 I was working in gugiery st the night Sarah went missing. Night shift at a facility there. It was a hot noisy night. The speedway was sooo loud. Hearing she had gone missing next day made me feel so sad.

#33 . I actually worked in a nursing capacity with people living in a large house. I was affected physically and mentally for two weeks after her disappearance. I felt a connection to her somehow.

#156 Hi DRT - I was working a night shift in a big old house on Gugieri St the night Sarah went missing. It was close to Rowe Park. I was working as a nurse looking after a large group of residents. Afternoon staff finished at 10.00 and the night shift was done by one person. I remember that night well because it was very hot. I thought about opening windows as there was no air conditioning in the office. Had to keep them shut because the Speedway was very noisy. It used to sound like the cars were on Gugieri St. I made do with a fan that night. Also people used to catch the train there and the station was across the road so that was busy until people finished going home afterwards.

#174 Hi Kambo - it was definitely uncomfortably warm in the house. I can't remember the days weather but it was warm that night. The speedway noise was way past 10.00pm on that night. It is very clear In my mind.

#206 Hi ESH - it was very hot in the house I worked in the night SS went missing. Whatever the temp was that day the office in particular was boiling. I opened office window but the speedway noise was loud. Australia Day came early that year so celebrations were on that night. The area was very busy. I'm sure the speedway went longer that night. Have tried to find out.

Please correct me if I'm wrong but didn't other posters say the speedway was on Friday 19th January not Friday 26th January? You've said around four times about the speedway that night and how clear it was in your mind.
Also Gugeri wasn't opposite the Showgrounds train station in 1996 as the above posters have indicated in Wiki (The station closed on 1 September 1979 along with the rest of the Fremantle line, re-opening on 29 July 1983 when services were restored.[SUP][4][/SUP] In March 1994, construction of a new Showgrounds station 400 metres south commenced.[SUP][5][/SUP] It opened on 20 September 1995.)
Maybe you were confused about the night you were working?
I'm interested in the houses around Gugeri especially around Rowe Park where the KK rape victim was taken and another. I find it interesting that the Presentation Convent (ex or current?) which is on Google for offering accommodation is right there just off Gugeri opp Rowe Pk. There is another house just opp the current train station which also has an interesting looking facade and size.
Presentation Convent 6 Reserve St streetview

Was it this house opp the present train station?

 

[petedavo.au]

Agree with most of what you say here, except that having no evidence of MO changing does not necessarily mean that the MO didn't change and stayed the same blitz style attack. The MO may have changed but we don't know because those two alleged murder victims cannot tell us (the public) what happened.

Cops may have forensic evidence that tells them more than we know now obviously


............................................
Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links. All my original text and images remain exclusively my personal copyright.
[emoji317][emoji317][emoji317]

Exactly. But for investigating officers to of focused entirely upon an MO that the girls were groomed in the pub or talked into a vehicle for an attack so many years ago, may of lead them up the garden path to dismiss the link to the KK attack, suspect PW and LW etc based entirely upon conjecture. Thus they might of dismissed something that might of solved this a long time ago IMO. Thankfully the alleged DNA matches put the missed linked crimes that show a pattern of behaviour back into the investigation.

 

[Canning Vale]

In a bit of a subject change, does anyone know the fate of Samantha White, mentioned in the following article?

http://go.galegroup.com/ps/i.do?id=...PS&sw=w&asid=7de978f1e58a9ebcc846a851821b986d

Furthermore, which four women is the article referencing?

Police are still investigating the deaths of four Perth women whose bodies were found after they disappeared from Perth pubs and nightclubs over the last five years.

The time period in question is 1996-2000.

Sutton,
I can't find a Samantha White in the news or within the Missing Persons register. I'll have another look, in the meantime can anyone else locate anything on this young lady?

 

[Annalise]

Hi everyone - in keeping with trying to think like a sk to try to find where Sarah could be I put this scenario together. If EE actually left the house they bought together and the accused was alone - this may send a sk into a rage where he decides he wants to hurt anyone that reminds him of her. Perhaps she was from another country and was aspiring to be a successful and wealthy woman mixing with the type of ladies living in Claremont. He then decides to take it out on ladies from Claremont. In his state of mind he would want to hurt women he thought were like the ladies EE aspired to be like. So EE leaving him is the big trigger for him to go into killing mode. He keeps them for a couple of weeks and tortures them. Then disposes of them as if he is "deporting" them from Perth/Australia. He literally takes them as far away from Claremont as he can given time constraints, not wanting to travel for too long with bodies in his car at the risk of being caught. He then feels he has pushed them away from him. IMO

 

[Innerchild]

Certainly reads that way Spooks.


JMO [emoji368]

...and not random!

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

Exactly. But for investigating officers to of focused entirely upon an MO that the girls were groomed in the pub or talked into a vehicle for an attack so many years ago, may of lead them up the garden path to dismiss the link to the KK attack, suspect PW and LW etc based entirely upon conjecture. Thus they might of dismissed something that might of solved this a long time ago IMO. Thankfully the alleged DNA matches put the missed linked crimes that show a pattern of behaviour back into the investigation.

Totally agree with you here PD.
Your point here was behind my inference in my original post about this point. If that makes sense! lol

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

RSBM

I'm interested in the houses around Gugeri especially around Rowe Park where the KK rape victim was taken and another. I find it interesting that the Presentation Convent (ex or current?) which is on Google for offering accommodation is right there just off Gugeri opp Rowe Pk. There is another house just opp the current train station which also has an interesting looking facade and size.
Presentation Convent 6 Reserve St streetview

Was it this house opp the present train station?

Innerchild - it is against WS rules to sleuth another member. Please stop.
Annalise - you don't have to answer this question or any other questions posed by Innerchild to you.

 

[Moustachio]

He says he knows a bit about the case and can't give details but under oath in answer to a direct question about whether the girls taken in the CSK was a random attack, he says no he can't accept they were.

Quoting ApplePie80...There is importance in that this statement made under oath, and is able to be taken as gospel.

There are still records of earlier Macro statements around where they said the same thing - 'The victims were all linked to Iona'. Here's a link to one such record: https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!...me/3LQHcru0480.

So while standpipes and lines are all well and good, keep in mind that there are obvious links between an partner/ex-wife's nationality, the origins of the aforementioned educational institution, the occupation of the accused, and perhaps more. Wouldn't this be a more sensible place to start understanding more about SS than random assumptions?
End Quote ApplePie80:

No he doesn't, though. That's the point. He says he doesn't accept the 'proposition' put to him. He doesn't say he can't accept that 'they were random attacks' thereby implying that there were not random attacks.

 

[Moustachio]

Pardon, Australia Day didn't come early, it was Jan 26th as normal.

Agree. There is a lot of twaddle on here.

 

[petedavo.au]

Snipped for brevity

I noticed when looking at this walkway between Gugeri St and Rowe Park that there's still an old night cart track in Claremont. (2nd picture)
My Nanna had one of these behind her place once.
They're tracks between streets where the horse drawn night cart came to collect the poo from the outside toilets, before running water and flushing toilets came along.
I thought most of these tracks had been sold off to the property owners either side in the 1950's as they only encouraged crime, but not this one apparently.

 

[Innerchild]

RSBM



Innerchild - it is against WS rules to sleuth another member. Please stop.
Annalise - you don't have to answer this question or any other questions posed by Innerchild to you.

Where did your post go with the street view of the claremont showgrounds and trainstation go Spooks.

I'm sorry but that was not sleuthing. Heaps of people have asked me and others to explain a quote or three taken from a post. I, and others were wondering if Annalise had her dates with the speedway and SS disappearance wrong. She clearly states the house was close to Rowe Park and had to keep windows closed as the Speedway was very noisy. Also train station was across the road, so it wasn't the old station north of ashton ave. Was the speedway on the 19th January 1996? Was there the Claremont Showgrounds station in the present location in 1996?
I'm interested in the houses that she may have been working in?

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

RSBM

Also Gugeri wasn't opposite the Showgrounds train station in 1996 as the above posters have indicated in Wiki

IC I think you are misreading and misquoting what I (and others) said about the Showgrounds Train Station, when you say 'Gugeri wasn't opposite Showgrounds train station'.

The correct fact is that BOTH the original and existing Showgrounds train station were both opposite Gugeri Street!
Because Gugeri Street runs along the railway line.

Petedavo said previously the original Showground station was north of Ashton Ave, which I believe nowadays is the blank area that remains just north of intersection of Ashton Ave and Gugeri St.

Please note the following screen shot I just took of Google Maps of the area. Gugeri Street is named on the map and it reaches nearly all the way to Loch Street Station. You can also see the blank area where I think the original station was located.

Furthermore - IC - I'd appreciate you being more accurate when repeating what I've said in my posts, since you seem to prefer paraphrasing instead of using the inbuilt 'reply with quote' feature here on WS.

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

RSBM

I'm interested in the houses that she may have been working in?

IC you may be interested in the house/s but you cannot expect Annalise to answer your question.
And yes you are still trying to sleuth another WS member (eg Annalise) by virtue of fact you showed a pic of a house and then asked the member to verify publicly that that house was where she once worked.

 

[Innerchild]

No he doesn't, though. That's the point. He says he doesn't accept the 'proposition' put to him. He doesn't say he can't accept that 'they were random attacks' thereby implying that there were not random attacks.

Spectacles where are my spectacles!!

But in a separate court case last Tuesday, Detective Sergeant Ian Moore of the Major Crime Squad was giving evidence in a defamation trial brought by barrister Lloyd Rayney when he was asked by Mr Rayney’s lawyer Martin Bennett: “Do you accept that the Claremont serial killer killings were random attacks — the only thing linking Sarah *Spiers, Jane Rimmer, Ciara Glennon being an attendance in *Claremont?”
Sergeant Moore replied that he did not accept that: “I have knowledge of that particular job that I can’t particularly enlighten the court about and those — no, I can’t accept that proposition.”http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news...7b042380826366

I've posted the direct quote at lease three times now. The question put to him was “Do you accept that the Claremont serial killer killings were random attacks — the only thing linking Sarah *Spiers, Jane Rimmer, Ciara Glennon being an attendance in *Claremont?”

Sgt Moore replied “I have knowledge of that particular job that I can’t particularly enlighten the court about and those — no, I can’t accept that proposition.”

Even though he could not go into details I think it is very clear that he said no the Claremont serial killings were not random attacks.

If you read this and understand something different please do not change, I will agree to disagree, happens all the time.

 

[Canning Vale]

Hi AL, please don't get confused, I wasn't asking about your job. You very interesting account of working the night that SS disappeared had many discrepancies, although it generated interesting discussion that the abduction accured 5 days into a new moon (if I'm correct?). Hard to believe but some people tell porkies for whatever reason?

Annalise
#30 I was working in gugiery st the night Sarah went missing. Night shift at a facility there. It was a hot noisy night. The speedway was sooo loud. Hearing she had gone missing next day made me feel so sad.

#33 . I actually worked in a nursing capacity with people living in a large house. I was affected physically and mentally for two weeks after her disappearance. I felt a connection to her somehow.

#156 Hi DRT - I was working a night shift in a big old house on Gugieri St the night Sarah went missing. It was close to Rowe Park. I was working as a nurse looking after a large group of residents. Afternoon staff finished at 10.00 and the night shift was done by one person. I remember that night well because it was very hot. I thought about opening windows as there was no air conditioning in the office. Had to keep them shut because the Speedway was very noisy. It used to sound like the cars were on Gugieri St. I made do with a fan that night. Also people used to catch the train there and the station was across the road so that was busy until people finished going home afterwards.

#174 Hi Kambo - it was definitely uncomfortably warm in the house. I can't remember the days weather but it was warm that night. The speedway noise was way past 10.00pm on that night. It is very clear In my mind.

#206 Hi ESH - it was very hot in the house I worked in the night SS went missing. Whatever the temp was that day the office in particular was boiling. I opened office window but the speedway noise was loud. Australia Day came early that year so celebrations were on that night. The area was very busy. I'm sure the speedway went longer that night. Have tried to find out.

Please correct me if I'm wrong but didn't other posters say the speedway was on Friday 19th January not Friday 26th January? You've said around four times about the speedway that night and how clear it was in your mind.
Also Gugeri wasn't opposite the Showgrounds train station in 1996 as the above posters have indicated in Wiki (The station closed on 1 September 1979 along with the rest of the Fremantle line, re-opening on 29 July 1983 when services were restored.[SUP][4][/SUP] In March 1994, construction of a new Showgrounds station 400 metres south commenced.[SUP][5][/SUP] It opened on 20 September 1995.)
Maybe you were confused about the night you were working?
I'm interested in the houses around Gugeri especially around Rowe Park where the KK rape victim was taken and another. I find it interesting that the Presentation Convent (ex or current?) which is on Google for offering accommodation is right there just off Gugeri opp Rowe Pk. There is another house just opp the current train station which also has an interesting looking facade and size.
Presentation Convent 6 Reserve St streetview

Was it this house opp the present train station?

Innerchild,


I'm sure the forum would all agree when I type you've made a great effort to prove a point. You've substantiated quite a few oddities made by a new WS member. As you've proven the point, and you're absolutely right, could you please focus your attention toward the recently discussed matters posted by the forum members. We need you on our team.

Also, if anyone has a copy of the Jan 1996 Speedway Program could they please upload it, I'm needing it for for my own reference.

Many thanks.